Author Topic: Not many fans of the 444 Marlin Handi here (Read 2991 times)

northkid · « **on:** January 25, 2012, 01:09:18 PM »

Don't see no posts on the 444 Marlin here, most of ya just jump up to the 45-70 instead.
From reading the 444 seems to be a pretty good flying found..

JRSherbundy · « **Reply #1 on:** January 25, 2012, 01:22:07 PM »

I have noticed that too. I always thought I would consider a .444 as a follow up to a 44 Mag or a 445 Maxi. Same size round, so if you hand load, you can save, maybe....

northkid · « **Reply #2 on:** January 25, 2012, 01:49:40 PM »

Quote from: JRSherbundy on January 25, 2012, 01:22:07 PM

I have noticed that too. I always thought I would consider a .444 as a follow up to a 44 Mag or a 445 Maxi. Same size round, so if you hand load, you can save, maybe....

The only thing that seems to cost more is the 444 brass, but it was designed for a smokeless powder round VS the 45-70 being a black powder round. A good 444 cast bullet will drop anything in NA with the right shot.

twoshooter · « **Reply #3 on:** January 25, 2012, 01:53:13 PM »

The 45/70 has had a hundred year head start. It also has a plethora of available brass while the 444 has only a couple. It has nostalgia going for it.
Now, if you just go on performance, the 444 is right up there. The brass is heavier, more durable, less prone to dents and dings. There is a good selection of 444 cast and growing, but the 45/70 has tons so it is a catch up situation. Jacketed loads in the 444 are great performers, and flat shooting compared to the 45/70. I would just as soon have the 444 for most applications, especially on mid to lighter game. On bears, moose, and perhaps elk, the 45/70 begins to pick up points due to bullet weight. I also happen to find that the 444 is a very accurate round, with loads that go around 1 1/4 inch at 100yds and are full power.
I simply look at the cartridges as filling slots. Under 100 yards, under most situations, especially in thick cover, I use a 500. In good light, up to about 150 yards, moderate cover, I would use the 45/70 and iron sights. From 150 to 250 yards, or over 100 yards in poor light, I would use a 444.
There is the matter of throw weight also, the 444 is from 200 to 300 gr, the 45/70 is for 300 to 405 gr, and the 500 for 440 and up.
I would prefer a 444 to a 30/06 on most game up to 250 yards. SO, I dont think the folks here have any dislike for the 444 at all, but it IS the new kid on the block, and a lot of them have zero experience with the round. I think most of them , once they get to try one out, would find room on their rack for one.

bikerbeans · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2012, 02:30:38 PM »

I really like the 444M in a Handi, but you gotta reload if you buy one as the factory ammo is $2 a shot or more. The 444M will shoot jacketed just fine, but the (4) 444m Handis I have sighted in all seem to do better with gas checked lead in the 270 to 310 grain weights and velocity from 1,500 to 2,000 FPS. Get some .430" lyman devastor 250 grain HP slugs (ones I buy weight 275 grains), some I3031 and seat them into the rifling with no crimp and you will have a great day at the range. One note, all the 444M Handis I have reloaded for are Illion, NY, extractor barrels with 1:20 twist.

BB

abolt-fan · « **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2012, 05:08:29 PM »

When Ms. first passed the new primitive weapons laws my brother and I and our hunting partners all went with Handis in 45-70. I like that cartridge very much and we've all slayed our share of deer and hogs with them. I have always had the attitude that if I had the 45-70 what good was a .444.

After retiring from state service I had a job shooting for the engineering dept. at H&R till they moved. While down at the range I got a chance to shoot some .444's that had just come off the production line. I was impressed with their accuracy so much that I had two of my frames fitted with .444 barrels. Looking at performance and trajectory has convinced me that for deer and hogs it's a better caliber than the 45-70. The same frames have barrels in both calibers fitted to them. I haven't used the 45-70 barrels in at least three years. The .444's gets used every year.

My load for the .444 is Rem. brass, Win. L.R. primer, H4198 powder and Speer 270 gr. Gold Dot soft point bullets. This load is very accurate in both barrels and slays the heck out of what it hits. Unless I really expect some long shots I'd just as soon take my Handi .444 out.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #6 on:** January 28, 2012, 03:17:51 AM »

The 444 is a very under rated/appreciated cartridge. As to bullet weight, a gentleman on the Marlin Owners site, has done development on loads for the Marlin lever that will generate 4100 ft lb of energy using a 405 gr cast bullet. Flattop's modifications were done to lengthen the overall cartridge length as well as other mods to do this in a safe manner. Anyone interested in the 444 should go on www.marlinowners.com, go to the 444 Marlin section and find Flattops post on "Two more 444 articals". All of his work has been tested, retested and proofed before anything was ever posted to the public. With the H&R set up, all but throating the barrel could be eliminated. I own both the 45-70 and 444 in Marlins and H&R's and prefer the 444 enough the 45-70's haven't been shot more than a few times. Since my job ends at 5:00pm tues. I may have to start thinning the herd, the 45-70's will go before any other caliber in both brands. DP

Shu · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2012, 03:37:02 AM »

Both are very versatile cartridges. The 45-70 having a much greater head start has more of a following. A shooter would be well equiped with either cartridge. To really make them both shine you really need to be a reloader.
Game performance both are very similar until you get over 300 grain bullets then the advatange goes to the 45-70. My guess is 95% of all shooters don't really need the full power of the 45-70.
I simply prefer the 45-70 becuase Pops gave it to me. I certainly would not feel under gunned or slighted in any way with a 444.

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2012, 04:26:24 AM »

I like mine so far. Got scope sighted at short range. Now to see what it will do a little farther. Haven't had the time to play with it much. As said I already loaded for 44 mag so it is a nice companion cartridge. I plan to check into the gas checked lead bullets. Got to find out what dia. and twist mine is. Another thing to take away from trigger time

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2012, 08:06:06 AM »

Twist on modern H&R 444s is 1:20", older barrels marked Ultra are 1:38". Beartooth has done a lot of cast bullet testing with the 444 Marlin, both twists, my 1:20" barrel everything I've shot in it was under an inch, 240gr and 265gr jacketed as well as 355gr gas checked. I also have a 20" 1:38" 44mag barrel that I octagoned and rechambered to 444M, it shoots 275gr spitzers under an inch at 100yds also. Bore specs for the 1:20" 444M factory barrel are:

Bore- .4248, SAAMI spec is.425 ± .001
Groove- .4308, SAAMI spec .431 ± .001

It consistently provided 1½-1¾" groups at 100 yards with the three factory ammos when H&R tested my barrel before they shipped it to me, Rem 240gr and both Hornady 265gr offereings.

All that said, I still prefer the 45-70, of which I have six H&Rs plus the 45-120 BC.

Actually you need both, so just figure out which you want first.

Tim

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/17

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/19

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/tech_notes/archive_tech_notes.htm/28

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2012, 09:37:36 AM »

Ok, Ok, Tim, I'll prob. end up with one of those 45-70 lead lobbers some day

I hope to resist that for a while. I have come close to slipping a couple of times, BUT was able to resist

Thanks for the Beartooth links a while back. It sounds like I might have to slug my 444 to get the right bullet dia.?? Don't know about that.

I have 180, 200, 240, and 265gr Hornady's for now. Short range site-in looks promising. I have the urge to throw some about 200yds for fun and go from there.

I bet that octy 20"er is a blast and very Handi. I guess I'll just be the little kid on the block without the MANLY 45-70.

That's Ok I've heard size doesn't matter

manatee1947 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2012, 10:23:32 AM »

Actually, the longest kill I have on a whitetail was with a 444, although it was in a late '60's Marlin, using factory RP 240 gr loads, measured 265 yards. Sighted in @ 100 yards I held to where I could just see daylight under the crosshair and squeezed it off, from a kneeling position. It was down a powerline right of way, and the beer bucked and ran into the brush. I thought I had probably missed but I walked down to check for blood. As I got near the site, the deer took off from thick brush in a ravine at the side and around a large pile of dozed timber and right back toward me and stopped suddenly when it saw me. I shot it head on at about 60 yards right in the white throat patch and it was drt. I could not find my earlier shot when I field dressed it. I headed back to get the truck and crossed the ravine, and there not 50 feet into the brush lay my deer. The bullet went completely through the deer just above the heart and clipped the lower lungs, it was about 80 yards from where I shot it. Fortunately I had more than one tag, but my season lasted all of 20 minutes.

Sourdough · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2012, 11:06:16 AM »

My Dad bought a .444 marlin back when Marlin came out with it. He has used it ever since. I also have used it a lot. I am not impressed. At first there was a lack of good bullets, then that problem ended. but is still is just not a round I am not interested in. I can do so much more with a 45-70. In some areas of the country you will have problems finding .444 Marlin cartridges if you should lose them while on a hunt, 45-70s can always be found everywhere.

I look at it as the 45-70s anemic little sister. Why mess with the little sickly one when you can go with the big girl.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2012, 11:30:24 AM »

Quote from: bigvarmnt on January 28, 2012, 09:37:36 AM

I hope to resist that for a while. I have come close to slipping a couple of times, BUT was able to resist Thanks for the Beartooth links a while back. It sounds like I might have to slug my 444 to get the right bullet dia.?? Don't know about that.

.432" worked great in mine, a chamber cast might be in order instead, as long as you can chamber them, use the biggest you can get.

Tim

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2012, 11:38:46 AM »

Rog, You loose your ammo up there where you hunt I bet you got a ways to go

I'm gonna give the little sickly one a chance. All I can use it for here is groundhogs, jugs, and coyotes. Every time I pick her up I feel she just needs a chance, she may make me happy

I only go for the bigger sisters around last call

Don't let my wife see this

Thanks Tim, I need to check the FAQs about some of this stuff.

Txdrmy Man · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2012, 04:18:34 PM »

Hey i'm fairly new to the handis but my first one was a 444m. I just got tired of cleaning my muzzleloader. It tok a little breaking in and a few handloads but it shoots exceptionaly well. most guys here when they made them legal for pw bot the handi 4570 and found out relly quick about recoil. Plus if you handload you have a wider range of bullet weights. my most accuate load is with 180 xtps but they dont penatrate well enough if you hit the shoulder of a large deer. my vote is for the 444.

gomerdog · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2012, 06:06:04 PM »

The 444 and cast bullets are a deadly combination.

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #17 on:** January 29, 2012, 06:05:02 AM »

Gomerdog, nice speed goat! DP

gomerdog · « **Reply #18 on:** January 29, 2012, 07:59:13 AM »

Thanks...In my part of Wyoming, it's an average buck. Many hunters would not look twice at an antelope this size, which may be why they will at some point shoot a record-book buck, and I probably never will. To each his own.

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #19 on:** January 29, 2012, 08:38:26 AM »

Wish those were roaming around here or maybe better I was roaming where they are.

What weight bullet and what distance was the shot?

Added: I just loaded a 180 gr XTP. Gonna open the patio door and wake up the neighbors

Sweet, popped my shoulder back in, wife said it was loud

I like the sickly one

gomerdog · « **Reply #20 on:** January 29, 2012, 09:47:50 AM »

Distance was about 75 yards and I had a rest over my daypack. 250 grain Beartooth LFNGC and H4895 powder...not a maximum charge.

I'd be arrested if I shot from my patio. You have the advantage there.

bigvarmnt · « **Reply #21 on:** January 29, 2012, 10:18:04 AM »

If an antelope comes by I might just take it

I think I like them Bearthooths, even like the name

bikerbeans · « **Reply #22 on:** January 29, 2012, 11:00:26 AM »

444M - 405 grain gas checked lead at 2,150 FPS doesn't sound anemic to me.

BB

gomerdog · « **Reply #23 on:** January 29, 2012, 04:23:52 PM »

Ouch!!! Detached retinas and loose fillings!!

gr8ful · « **Reply #24 on:** January 29, 2012, 05:24:20 PM »

My brother has a .444 handi that I reload for, and with 300gr lbt cast bullets at 1600 fps it is a tack driver. Factory ammo gives acceptable performance but the handloads just flat shoot better and kill deer right now. they also have less recoil and muzzle blast and are just fun to shoot. You can load it hot enough to kill any North American game including moose and Big Bears, but if you hunt whitetails up close the question is Why? Anyways you wouldnt be dissapointed with a .444 Bud

paul63 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 30, 2012, 02:22:28 AM »

I've had my 444 since 08 & is my favorite deer rifle. It's sighted dead-on @ 25yds & will shoot groups of 3 all day @ 200yds within 3''.

twoshooter · « **Reply #26 on:** January 30, 2012, 12:43:47 PM »

You see , it is like rattling antlers, just make some noise and wait a bit, the boys will show up. The 444 is about ideal for a handi, the only cartridges left that really are hunters that are missing are the 375 ond 405 Winchester. (the 25/35 for varmints etc would be nice)

northkid · « **Reply #27 on:** January 30, 2012, 03:45:01 PM »

Quote from: twoshooter on January 30, 2012, 12:43:47 PM

You see , it is like rattling antlers, just make some noise and wait a bit, the boys will show up. The 444 is about ideal for a handi, the only cartridges left that really are hunters that are missing are the 375 ond 405 Winchester. (the 25/35 for varmints etc would be nice)

Isn't it a beautiful thing.

I like the 444 Handi, going to put sights on it when I find some, an use the scope for the longer shots. What are you folks using for loads for deer, bear and hogs in the 444?

tacklebury · « **Reply #28 on:** January 30, 2012, 03:49:51 PM »

If I'd have gone the .44 Magnum route on my side arms instead of .45 Colt, I'd definitely have one.

I've recommended them to friends who opted for .44 magnum but only if they reload.

Otherwise, I recommend the .44 mag handi. duh

bajabill · « **Reply #29 on:** January 31, 2012, 03:38:59 AM »

I kind of developed an unwarranted prejudice against the 444 for some reason - I apologize. First up for me was the 45-70 and for that I do not apologize, but then I went to the project route. 44Mag reamed to 445sm because I wanted to do that gunsmithing thing again. Well that really bookended the 444 and even though need never needs to be mentioned

, I felt the disire to add chamberings at different ranges of the spectrum.

I know its very capable, but that really is an understatement for most chamberings that are currently offered in factory ammo - they all can get the job done that they are typically used for and we spend way too much time trying to differentiate between two choices that are a "pass" in a "pass/fail" test. After everyone tells us they killed a deer with X?X therefore X?X is the greatest, all we will have is greatest cartridges.