Polaris front hubs

[jcn59]

I have a 2000 Polaris with the magical front hubs.  The one run by electro-magnets.  Sometimes the hubs operate in 4wd and sometimes only 2wd.  When they don't engage it's always BOTH front hubs that don't engage. 
 
I drained and refilled both front hubs with the proper fluid, and charged the battery.  The 4wd worked fine for 1/2 hour, then all I had was 2wd.  I let it sit 1/2 hr. and then had 4wd back for another 1/2 hour.  I used it a few days later, and the 4wd didn't work for the first 10 minutes, then it kicked in for about a half hour.
 
I'm thinking that since both hubs either work, or neither works, that it might be the 4wd switch.  Or maybe the battery isn't strong enough to electrify the front hubs. Or maybe I have bad hub seals and the lube just ran out.
 
I bought this new and the tires are 90%.  It doesn't get much use except to plow my 75' driveway a few times a year when it snows.
 
Anyone have any ideas what the problem might be?   Thank you.

[Lloyd Smale]

I know the rzr uses a simular set up and there was problems with them and the cage around the differential gears breaking and causing that problem. It is made believe it or not out of plastic!

I have a 2000 Polaris with the magical front hubs.  The one run by electro-magnets.  Sometimes the hubs operate in 4wd and sometimes only 2wd.  When they don't engage it's always BOTH front hubs that don't engage. 
 
I drained and refilled both front hubs with the proper fluid, and charged the battery.  The 4wd worked fine for 1/2 hour, then all I had was 2wd.  I let it sit 1/2 hr. and then had 4wd back for another 1/2 hour.  I used it a few days later, and the 4wd didn't work for the first 10 minutes, then it kicked in for about a half hour.
 
I'm thinking that since both hubs either work, or neither works, that it might be the 4wd switch.  Or maybe the battery isn't strong enough to electrify the front hubs. Or maybe I have bad hub seals and the lube just ran out.
 
I bought this new and the tires are 90%.  It doesn't get much use except to plow my 75' driveway a few times a year when it snows.
 
Anyone have any ideas what the problem might be?   Thank you.

[jcn59]

I believe it was 2004 when the "steel caged" front hubs were dropped in favor of a redesigned front differential (?).

[Old Syko]

As you know there are a lot of different things that can cause this situation, some as simple as using the correct oil or a battery that is weak or dying can do exactly what yours is doing.  Those are easy to check.  There is a simple onboard test using the speedo to test the switch.  You'll have to look it up in your book.  Been too long since I messed with one to remember.  Considering the limited use of yours, I'd be checking voltage drop and available amperage on your battery after doing the self test.  From there it becomes a crap shoot as to what it could be and a manual is the only way to get to it. 


Just cured a multitude if issues on a Yamaha and my own Kawasaki with new batteries.  They would both start just fine but a lot of functions just wouldn't happen.  Both batteries still test good but aren't.  One was 6 years old and mine was a bit over 10.


Good Luck and keep us posted.

[jcn59]

I just took your advice & bought a replacement battery.   Will install it this weekend.  Thanks!

[Empty Quiver]

Electrical problems are always the ground, except when it is not the ground.


By that I mean I would clean every ground point on the chassis before I got too far into buying parts. It is a relatively old machine and the way they are used means corrosion is quite likely. Just my .02 worth.

[cwlongshot]

I agree, because its always both, Its not likely the hubs them selves,,,
 
I also agree, incorrect fluids and poor electrical systems are top reasons for problems.
 
I frequent the Polaris site as well as here, give these guys a try. Good group there.  http://www.polarisatvforums.com/forums/
 
CW

[jcn59]

I put the new batt in but didn't get to try it yet.  I noticed some yellow spots in the snow where my new expensive fluid has been leaking out of the hubs.  Need new seals, too, huh?

[Old Syko]

I put the new batt in but didn't get to try it yet.  I noticed some yellow spots in the snow where my new expensive fluid has been leaking out of the hubs.  Need new seals, too, huh?

Usually bearings too.  A lot of times lack of use is as bad as a lot of use.  Good thing they're cheap.   

[jcn59]

Ten years ago, when I got it, I went riding with a friend who knew the trails.  Against my better judgement, I rode with him through the water, swamps, etc.  Haven't done it since.   Probably lucky things have lasted as long as they have.  Maybe I should have bought a Yamaha.

[cwlongshot]

PERISH THE THOUGHT!     Everything breaks and this one has had quite a run time wise. As O.S. said, lack of use really takes a toll!
 
It's up to you to sell or fix. But don't fool yourself, ALL machines break and there is no way to know if others would have lasted this long...
 
 
I like my Polaris! I have had Suzuki's and Yamaha's, I prefer Polaris.
 
CW

[Old Syko]

I'm presently riding a 2002 Kawasaki Prairie 650 that has around 45,000 miles on it.  Yes I've worn out a few parts and just plain abused and destroyed some.  Proper maintenance is the key to longevity no matter if you use the thing a lot or a little.  Simple things like the use of a battery tender for light users like yourself are something I don't have to worry with because I use mine 3 or 4 times a week. 


How you use your ride has nothing to do with what brand you own.  Maintaining to the particular necessities of a certain brand is a different story.  As an example, aside from cleanup and use of proper fluids, my main issues are with the clutch system.  The engine and transmission have proven practically bullet proof.  Polaris are fraught with drive line problems and electrical issues.  With Yamaha it's fuel systems and front suspension.


I always tell folks to buy whatever brand you have a reliable stocking dealer for.  If you can't get parts they're all junk and you will need parts.  Around here you buy Yamaha or Kawasaki.  Polaris is a real oddity around here.  Only one useful dealer in 100 miles.       

[Lloyd Smale]

wow! 45000 miles!!! are you sure thats not 4500. If not you hands down have got the highest milage atv ive ever seen. Ill say this. Ive got a polaris rzr and a yamaha grizzly and comparing them side by side the yamaha is hands down a better built machine. Its also been totaly trouble free for 4 years. Ive had the polaris one year less and they both have about the same ammount of miles, right around 2000 and ive lost track of all the things that have broken on the rzr!

[.54]

I'm pretty sure the 4 wheel drive on those only kicks in when the rear wheels slip. So if your rear wheels aren't slipping the 4x4 probably isn't going to engage. Get in a mud hole or some snow and let those rear wheels slip and see if your 4x4 kicks in. I used to have a '99 Polaris and I remember thinking the 4 wheel drive was acting up when I first got it.
If you do ever need to tear into your front hubs though here's a link I created a while back showing the shop manual pages for those front hubs....http://imageevent.com/gsimpson/fourbyfour.

[cwlongshot]

This is true. I assumed since you have had this machine so long you where aware of how the system works. 1/5th of a rotation of rear tires is required to engage the fronts. It's pretty much invisible to the rider. It disengages when yOu get off the throttle. It's a AWD system. Technically different than a 4WD system that is on or off. IMHO it's superior as it allows for all the good attributes while limiting the bad.

The leaking is still a problem and consern.

Did you post up over at the Polaris forum? ( I missed it if you did.)

CW

[Drilling Man]

Ill say this. Ive got a polaris rzr and a yamaha grizzly and comparing them side by side the yamaha is hands down a better built machine. Its also been totaly trouble free for 4 years. Ive had the polaris one year less and they both have about the same ammount of miles, right around 2000 and ive lost track of all the things that have broken on the rzr!

  That's been my experience too, Yamaha's are just plain a LOT more reliable and cheaper to own!
 
  DM

[Old Syko]

Lloyd that's 45,000.  That's thousand not hundred.  If I wasn't going to use it I wouldn't have bought it.  I had 4500 on it in the first 6 or 7 months and that was 10 years ago.  There are rides around here with more miles than this and it's because we take care of them and fix them when needed rather than throw money at something new.  I've put more miles on the wheeler than my truck for the last 4 years.  BTW the truck is a 97 and is clean and in excellent condition just like the wheeler.
 
The 20% overrun the Hilliard clutch requires should be well known by anyone who owns such a wheeler.
 

It's a AWD system. Technically different than a 4WD system that is on or off.

 
It's refreshing to see a Polaris owner make this statement rather than the usual "only true 4 wheel drive" BS that gets thrown around.  It is AWD and not necessarily 4WD, a much more accurate description.   
 
 
 
 

[jcn59]

I'm aware how the front hubs are set up.  Shortly after I bought it, the plastic covers on both front hubs cracked & leaked fluid.   That's when I got my first look at how the hubs engaged.  I machined 2 new hub covers out of aluminum & gave them each 2 O rings.  Not a problem since.

[Lloyd Smale]

that sure is amazing. Most of them are in the trash pile with half that many miles. Ive seen bikes with less the 10k that were trashed. You must be pretty meticulous on caring for it. can you explain what this is
The 20% overrun the Hilliard clutch requires should be well known by anyone who owns such a wheeler.

Ive never heard of a hilliard clutch.

Lloyd that's 45,000.  That's thousand not hundred.  If I wasn't going to use it I wouldn't have bought it.  I had 4500 on it in the first 6 or 7 months and that was 10 years ago.  There are rides around here with more miles than this and it's because we take care of them and fix them when needed rather than throw money at something new.  I've put more miles on the wheeler than my truck for the last 4 years.  BTW the truck is a 97 and is clean and in excellent condition just like the wheeler.
 
The 20% overrun the Hilliard clutch requires should be well known by anyone who owns such a wheeler.
 

It's a AWD system. Technically different than a 4WD system that is on or off.

 
It's refreshing to see a Polaris owner make this statement rather than the usual "only true 4 wheel drive" BS that gets thrown around.  It is AWD and not necessarily 4WD, a much more accurate description.   
 
 

[cwlongshot]

I was looking for another vid but this works...

Check out this video on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SucJve7Y0WE&feature=youtube_gdata_player


Sent from my iPhone

CW

[Old Syko]

can you explain what this is
The 20% overrun the Hilliard clutch requires should be well known by anyone who owns such a wheeler.

Ive never heard of a hilliard clutch.

It is a style of centrifugal clutch that requires movement equal to 1/5th of an axle rotation or 20% to fully engage.  There is no slippage possible such as there is on say a gocart clutch.  It is a very positive engagement.  Serious Polaris riders use this to their advantage by modifying the drive clutch to engage at a higher than normal rpm in order to give a more violent engagement of the AWD system.  Yes it gives a slight advantage in some situations but at the cost of a ton of destroyed driveline parts. 

[Lloyd Smale]

why would you want a more violent enguagement of the 4x4. I can see the increased enguagement rpm to get a hole shot. We been modifying snowmobile clutches for 40 years to do that but I cant see why a hard hit to the 4x4 system would do a thing other then break parts. Ive been on and off on the polaris fourms for years and have never heard it mentioned.

[jcn59]

All this hub talk makes me wonder why not remove the garter spring from around the rollers and just let it be in 4WD all the time.   What would happen to the AWD demand system then?

Or won't that work?

[Lloyd Smale]

you could probably do that but being in 4x4 effects stearing, gas milage, and if your in an area that the turf means anything to you being in 4x4 tends to tear up the ground a bit more when turning. Plus id bet a dime to a dollar that most atv manufactures factor in that the atv would spend 90 percent of its time in 2x4 so the parts they use probably wouldnt hold up to day to day use. Ie the cage problem polaris has ect.

[Old Syko]

why would you want a more violent enguagement of the 4x4. I can see the increased enguagement rpm to get a hole shot. We been modifying snowmobile clutches for 40 years to do that but I cant see why a hard hit to the 4x4 system would do a thing other then break parts. Ive been on and off on the polaris fourms for years and have never heard it mentioned.

Personally I don't want something like this but as I said, the guys that are serious about getting all they can claim it gives that little extra shock to get them going in certain situations.  I've ridden a 700 with just such a mod (among many others) and how it stays together is beyond me but I do understand the concept.  Just like modifying snow machine clutches, the majority of the time it's to raise engagement rpm, give a more crisp engagement, and increase top end speed.  These guys feel this is just another step in that direction.


JCN59, you can certainly make your ride full time 4X4 but I doubt you'll be happy.  Everything Lloyd mentions is certainly an issue but the increased steering effort and expanded turning radius will likely turn you against such a modification long before you wear out any parts.  I've ridden all day in 4X4 and it took all the fun out of the ride and that was on my bike with manual front locker which makes it much easier to handle than a ride with no front disengagement like yours.   

[jcn59]

New battery, now it works perfect!   The old one was 4 years old.  I buy so many batteries for toys, I thought this one was new last year. Thanks for all the tips and good ideas!

[Old Syko]

Glad to hear you're back in business.  Batteries these days can be the cause of some really strange failures.  Conventional testing procedures just don't work so we have to use voltage drop tests and draw tests like we did 30 years or more ago.  Analog meters are the only way to do this and we now live in a digital world.

[cwlongshot]

GLAD you figured it out!!
 
CW