Author Topic: Movie Red Tails  (Read 562 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline KIMBER45

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Movie Red Tails
« on: January 27, 2012, 10:45:27 AM »
I just saw the movie =Red Tails : An epic story of the Tuskegee Airmen . I say it was worth seeing if you are in a " I would like to see a good movie" mood.
"In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway."__Mother Theresa
-----------------
Not everyone will understand your journey. That"s fine. It's not their journey to make sense of. It's yours.
--------------------------------
Hawkeye: My father warned me about you...
Chingachgook, he warned me about people like you. He said "Do not try to understand them".
 "do not try to make them understand you. That is because they are a breed apart and make no sense".
-------

-------

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2012, 10:49:38 AM »
KIMBER. I saw the ads on tv. I look forward to seeing it, that was a tough bunch of pilots. Had it not been for Eleanor Roosevelt they would never have been able to prove their worth. On of those guys just died in Lou this past week. POWDERMAN.  :( :(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline KIMBER45

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2012, 12:45:34 PM »
I didn't know Mrs. Roosevelt had a say in the matter.Thanks for the insight. They saved alot of lives that's for sure. One of the sad truths was they were unable to eat in the same restraunts as German prisoners here in the good old USA.
"In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway."__Mother Theresa
-----------------
Not everyone will understand your journey. That"s fine. It's not their journey to make sense of. It's yours.
--------------------------------
Hawkeye: My father warned me about you...
Chingachgook, he warned me about people like you. He said "Do not try to understand them".
 "do not try to make them understand you. That is because they are a breed apart and make no sense".
-------

-------

Offline spikehorn

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (84)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3000
  • Gender: Male
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2012, 01:02:09 PM »
I want to see if for nothing else the historical air craft. My father was a corporal technician in the Army Air Corp during WWII and instilled his love of these air craft in me.
308 win                 45-70                       12ga         
30-30                    223 stainless steel   20ga TDC
44 mag                  Tracker II 20ga        20ga
45-70 Manlicher     20ga USH                28ga
                                                              410ga

Offline powderman

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32823
  • Gender: Male
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2012, 03:21:25 PM »
KIMBER. Eleanor went to visit with the airmen. One of them offered her a ride, she accepted. She convinced the top brass that they had worked very hard to be combat pilots and that they deserved a chance to prove themselves. Although they were well trained and had new planes the top brass never intended to allow blacks  to fly in combat.  I saw this on a PBS documentary several years ago. Although they suffered great losses I believe they said that they never lost a bomber and were much in demand for their fighter escort abilities. If I rember correctly they flew the P-51s. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline spikehorn

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (84)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3000
  • Gender: Male
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2012, 04:06:11 PM »
The P-51 came along a little latter in the allied's bombing campaign and was much needed, because of it's extended range it could escort the bombers all the way to thier targets and take a lot of heat of the bombers by engaging the Luft Waffe.
308 win                 45-70                       12ga         
30-30                    223 stainless steel   20ga TDC
44 mag                  Tracker II 20ga        20ga
45-70 Manlicher     20ga USH                28ga
                                                              410ga

Offline KP

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 107
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2012, 06:22:15 PM »
Hi all,
 
I'm proud to say, last Thursday (January 26th, 2012) I met Dr Granville Coggs. At 86 years old he was unbelievable... a true American Hero. Look him up on youtube and other internet sources. It still can't compare to talking to him in person.
 
We all owe him so much, but he was amazingly humble.
 
KP 

Offline williamlayton

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15415
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2012, 08:56:18 PM »
They first flew Jugs and then transitioned to 51's.
The war out of the Mediterranean Theater was flown a lot diffently than out of England.
They were tasked with protecting the bombers and did not have the opportunity to do a lot of ground attackes when in the protection mode.
The War out of England used air craft ahead of the bombers and tried to get the aircraft ahead of them---preferrably, on the ground.
I do not speculate which was the better procedure.
Blessings 
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline KIMBER45

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2012, 01:42:53 AM »
A friend told me the early jets used by Germany only had an air time ot 10 -15 min. Don't know if that's a true fact. If it is, we are luck that they didn't come into operation earlier in the war. Things may have turned out differently if they were able to increase their fighting time.
"In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway."__Mother Theresa
-----------------
Not everyone will understand your journey. That"s fine. It's not their journey to make sense of. It's yours.
--------------------------------
Hawkeye: My father warned me about you...
Chingachgook, he warned me about people like you. He said "Do not try to understand them".
 "do not try to make them understand you. That is because they are a breed apart and make no sense".
-------

-------

Offline Pot-Bellied Stallion

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Avid Poster
  • **
  • Posts: 171
  • Gender: Male
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2012, 03:08:29 PM »

I saw the movie and enjoyed it.  However, I just received this in email today from a friend but haven't had time to check it out yet.




THIS MAY RAISE SOME CRIES ETC - BUT IF TRUTH CAUSES OUTCRY SO BE IT.
 AFTER ALL THEY DID HANG IT OUT LIKE THE REST OF US.  I CALLED  BOB POWELL - HE STANDS BEHIND THE FOLLOWING AS DOES THE HISTORIAN OF THE TUSKEGEE AIRMEN
DICK POORE


 
The George Lucas film, "Red Tails", about the Tuskegee airmen, has been released. This might be a good time to revisit the facts as stated a few years ago.




From: Bob Powell
Date: July 3, 2008


This letter was not written for publication, but to enlighten you and you and your staff about some of the errors and misleading information you continue to publish, Perhaps it should be published to set your readers straight.
As a WWII Historian and former 8th AF fighter pilot flying 87 missions over Europe during WWII, I am dedicated to factual reporting about the air war in Europe and aviation in general, and I take issue with the media (and not with just AJC) continuing to publish untrue and/or misleading statements about the Tuskegee Airmen (T/A).
Although I have great respect for the pilots and achievements of this WWII Fighter Group, I do not appreciate the continuing repetition of myths and untruths about their military record, the latest example is the obit on Lt. Col Charles Dryden, repeating the same errors which appeared in his obit story a few days before.
For more than 60 years the myth that they "never lost a bomber they were escorting to an enemy fighter", was their primary claim to fame! Then, several months ago, their Historian, William E. Holten, announced that his research proved that this was not true, that they had, indeed, lost some 25 bombers to enemy fighters.This myth still gets published occasionally, but far less frequently since he made this disclosure, thank goodness. Lies told often enough tend to become truths in the minds of many. However, it now seems to have been replaced byanother false claim, i.e. that the Tuskegee Airmen flew more than 15,000 combat missions. ALSO NOT TRUE!


Their own official records indicate that the T/A only flew 311 missions. Their so-called 15,000 "missions" were actually 15,000 "sorties.". Apparently, none of your reporters know the difference between a "mission" and a "sortie," so let me define these for you and them. Combat Mission is an assigned flight to accomplish a military objective. This can be flown by one pilot or a squadron or group of pilots flying together. It is recorded as one mission. Combat Sortie. When, for example, 48 or 64 pilots fly together on a combat mission it is recorded as 48 or 64 combat sorties.


The T/A did not fly 15,000+ combat missions - as stated in your articles about the demise of Col. Charles Dryden. They flew 15,000+ "sorties". To have flown that many "missions" during the time they were in combat in the MTO, they would have had to fly about 25 missions a day everyday they were in combat. Do the math. That's one mission every hour, everyday they were in combat. Impossible!Weather alone would have prevented this, not to mention the problem of keeping all of their aircraft flyable everyday over that period of time. FACT:Their official records indicate they flew only 311 missions, a far cry from 15,000 claimed. Please advise your reporters of the difference between a mission and a sortie so that another T/A myth is not appearing in every mention this Fighter group.


The Dryden story also stated that the 99th Squadron of the T/A was "the most successful squadron in American history." NOT SO! It would be more correct to say they have been the most publicized squadron in American history, however, thanks to a fully-paid public relations staff in Washington, D.C., the only such office of any military unit other than the entire U.S. Army, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard..


Although I do not have complete combat statistics on all the fighter groups flying out of Africa and Italy (the MTO), I do havethe stats on all of the 16 fighter groups flying in the Eighth Air Force over western Europe. And, when these records are compared, the Tuskegee Airmen rank at the bottom of the list despite the fact that they had four squadrons to only three for the 8th AF groups. FYI, and one of the reasons the T/A exploit their 15,000+ sorties (which they call missions) is that on a normal mission they would put up 64 fighters compared to only 48 for the 8th AF groups. And, since they did mostly ground support missions rather than bomber escortmissions,the average length of their missions was about half that of the time in the air flown by the 8th AF fighters. Re the above mentioned stats, I would be delighted to provide these for your information if requested.


Another gross error in your first story on Colonel Dryden is that the implication that he was, individually, awarded the Congressional Gold Medal recently. ALSO NOT TRUE. Through the efforts of the New York Senator, this medal was awarded to the Tuskegee Airmen, authorizing all Tuskegee Airman to receive this award. It was not awarded for individual achievements, as implied, but for the role played by the T/A in breaking the color ban for pilots, a civil rights accomplishment, not for their military achievements.Had this award been given for their military achievements alone, it should also have been awarded to each and every other fighter group in WWII whose records exceeded those of the Tuskegee Airmen. In my opinion, this was a "political award" instead of a military award. No other bomber or fighter units have been awarded this Medal, only Unit Citations. These are facts. Check them out, and here's to more factual reporting and a better AJC.


Most sincerely,


Robert H. Powell, Jr.
Author/Editor/Historian/Pilot 352nd Fighter Group
1545 Rainier Falls Dr
Atlanta, GA 30329
404-636-3747

Thanks for the stump

The older I get, the better I was.

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2012, 03:22:39 PM »
The movie is full of myths.  I won't be seeing it.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline yellowtail3

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5664
  • Gender: Male
  • Oh father of the four winds, fill my sails!
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2012, 04:45:09 PM »
They first flew Jugs and then transitioned to 51's.
...and before that, P-39s and P-40s.
Quote
The War out of England used air craft ahead of the bombers and tried to get the aircraft ahead of them---preferrably, on the ground. I do not speculate which was the better procedure.
The bombers liked fighters as CLOSE escorts... but letting the fighters range free and seek out the opposition was more effective. Luftwaffe learned same lesson in BoB, with even shorter legs than the Jugs had over Europe.

A friend told me the early jets used by Germany only had an air time ot 10 -15 min. Don't know if that's a true fact. If it is, we are luck that they didn't come into operation earlier in the war. Things may have turned out differently if they were able to increase their fighting time.
Pretty much true; very short-legged. And the Me-262 was lousy against another fighter - short-legs, no persistence, and very vulnerable if if let speed bleed off. And they couldn't take off from just any strip like an FW or Me-109 - they needed long runways, and the USAAF killed them by flying patrols over their bases. As far as getting longer legs... the Germans didn't have the technology/engines materials to do much better.



Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Old Fart

  • Intergalactic Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (77)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3851
  • Gender: Male
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2012, 10:01:38 AM »
Not ot take anything away from these men.
What they did with what they had is something else.
 
http://www.tuskegee.edu/sites/www/Uploads/files/About%20US/Airmen/Nine_Myths_About_the_Tuskegee_Airmen.pdf
 
"All my life I've had a bad case of the Fred's. Fredrick Vanderbilt taste on a Fred Sanford budget." CR
Lifetime/Endowment/Patron NRA Member.
Second Amendment Foundation, www.saf.org - Life Member

Offline KIMBER45

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2012, 10:46:19 AM »
Myths or not- they were great Americans in spite of the racism against them.
"In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway."__Mother Theresa
-----------------
Not everyone will understand your journey. That"s fine. It's not their journey to make sense of. It's yours.
--------------------------------
Hawkeye: My father warned me about you...
Chingachgook, he warned me about people like you. He said "Do not try to understand them".
 "do not try to make them understand you. That is because they are a breed apart and make no sense".
-------

-------

Offline Old Fart

  • Intergalactic Moderator
  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (77)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3851
  • Gender: Male
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2012, 11:03:51 AM »
Didn't they make a movie about them something like 20 years ago called the "Tuskegee Airmen"?
 
edit:
 
I found it.
http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/the-tuskegee-airmen/
 
How is this movie different from the other?
"All my life I've had a bad case of the Fred's. Fredrick Vanderbilt taste on a Fred Sanford budget." CR
Lifetime/Endowment/Patron NRA Member.
Second Amendment Foundation, www.saf.org - Life Member

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2012, 11:53:11 AM »
Myths or not- they were great Americans in spite of the racism against them.

All WWII pilots were great men.  To single any of them out for praise because of race is racism.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline quickdtoo

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (149)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43301
  • Gender: Male
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2012, 01:32:43 PM »
The 2012 version will have to be pretty good to be better than the 1995 release, at least from the ratings/reviews, I'll have to see Redtails first tho... and watch the original again of course.

Tim

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0114745/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0485985/
"Always do right, this will gratify some and astonish the rest" -  Mark Twain

Offline KIMBER45

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Re: Movie Red Tails
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2012, 01:47:24 PM »
Myths or not- they were great Americans in spite of the racism against them.

All WWII pilots were great men.  To single any of them out for praise because of race is racism.
???
"In the final analysis, it is between you and God.  It was never between you and them anyway."__Mother Theresa
-----------------
Not everyone will understand your journey. That"s fine. It's not their journey to make sense of. It's yours.
--------------------------------
Hawkeye: My father warned me about you...
Chingachgook, he warned me about people like you. He said "Do not try to understand them".
 "do not try to make them understand you. That is because they are a breed apart and make no sense".
-------

-------