Author Topic: Undocumented Immigrants- We need em, couldn't survive without em!!! (Read 2981 times)

crustylicious · « **on:** January 29, 2012, 06:01:13 AM »

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/pubs/Hanson%20-Dec09.pdf

The Economics and Policy of Illegal Immigration in the United States

powderman · « **Reply #1 on:** January 29, 2012, 07:54:34 AM »

crusty. America would not only survive, we would thrive. POWDERMAN.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #2 on:** January 29, 2012, 08:00:54 AM »

Quote from: powderman on January 29, 2012, 07:54:34 AM

crusty. America would not only survive, we would thrive. POWDERMAN.

+1,
Especally if we limit unemployment and food stamps. we make it too easy to employ them when we have people that are willing to sit at home rather than work for the same or less $.
Also our health care system would thrive and costs would drop.

powderman · « **Reply #3 on:** January 29, 2012, 01:28:24 PM »

Quote from: mcwoodduck on January 29, 2012, 08:00:54 AM

Quote from: powderman on January 29, 2012, 07:54:34 AM
crusty. America would not only survive, we would thrive. POWDERMAN.
+1,
Especally if we limit unemployment and food stamps. we make it too easy to employ them when we have people that are willing to sit at home rather than work for the same or less $.
Also our health care system would thrive and costs would drop.

Good post Sir. Eliminate anchor babies and all the freebies and the majority would GO HOME and leave us alone. POWDERMAN.

Matt · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2012, 01:52:38 PM »

Tell you what crusty, You agree to make a few changes such as:
NO ONE inside the US illegally is allowed to receive the following:
Free or Subsidized Housing
Food Stamps or other Economic State or Federal Benefits
Free or Subsidized Education
Free or Subsidized Health Care
and the Tax rate on wages earned are the HIGHEST in our Tax brackets.

If you will agree to these terms I will agree that we should not round'em up and ship'em back.
Sound fair enough to you?
Matt

nomosendero · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2012, 01:59:42 PM »

I remember when McCain said that Americans could not work as hard as these illegals do. Wow, it wasn't that long ago that people in my area had to work every bit that hard to survive. Talk about an out of touch pasty white suburban clown!

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2012, 02:36:53 PM »

There is an easier way to end illegal immagration and the crime that follows with it. I am not saying that all illegals commit other crimes than the blatent acts of defying our laws. One of the problems we have is the same people that make the laws are the ones that are allowing certain people to break them. If some are allowed to break laws made do any of our laws matter? Can I follow the laws I think are Just? I think the 45 to 60 % in total taxes I pay a year are unjust can I disreguard them and only pay what I think is just?
But if we had a policy to deport everyone once to theri native country and the second time to Afganistan. The Illegals will leave on their own. I lived in So Cal for quite a few years and as INS now ICE snatched up an Illegal and deported them they were back the next week. Our laws have to mean something and have a real punnishment to breaking them. Oh the guys I knew that were comming back were ferrying drugs for the cartels to get back.

crustylicious · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2012, 03:26:34 PM »

Matt,
In a nutshell no.
No one iside the US legally is allowed to claim the benefits you list. It is the U.S.-born, U.S.-citizen children of undocumented immigrants who are eligible for programs and therein lies the crux. What's the answer? I'm not sure.
We need immigrants
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fernando-espuelas/why-the-us-needs-more-imm_b_562425.html
It's had to get a green card without a relative in the US and I can't fault someone for choosing to improve their their life above following the "What part if illegal don't you understand"program.
They still pay taxes. They make payroll deductions to Medicare and Social Security that they'll never see. I don't believe many are paid in cash. Is there a net benefit or drain on the system? It's my opinion that it's minimal.
In my research the worst state for subsidized housing is Arizona at 10%. That means most are renting or owning which means someone is paying property tax some of which goes to schools so their children are entitled to an education. I don't see the need for immigrants going away and I don't want a future generation of uneducated, unemployable sub-class of citizens (Kentucky has suppied enough of them

) so I say educate them.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2012, 04:08:41 PM »

Quote from: crustylicious on January 29, 2012, 03:26:34 PM

Matt,
In a nutshell no.
No one iside the US legally is allowed to claim the benefits you list. It is the U.S.-born, U.S.-citizen children of undocumented immigrants who are eligible for programs and therein lies the crux. What's the answer? I'm not sure.
We need immigrants
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fernando-espuelas/why-the-us-needs-more-imm_b_562425.html
It's had to get a green card without a relative in the US and I can't fault someone for choosing to improve their their life above following the "What part if illegal don't you understand"program.
They still pay taxes. They make payroll deductions to Medicare and Social Security that they'll never see. I don't believe many are paid in cash. Is there a net benefit or drain on the system? It's my opinion that it's minimal.
In my research the worst state for subsidized housing is Arizona at 10%. That means most are renting or owning which means someone is paying property tax some of which goes to schools so their children are entitled to an education. I don't see the need for immigrants going away and I don't want a future generation of uneducated, unemployable sub-class of citizens (Kentucky has suppied enough of them ) so I say educate them.

There is a difference between ILLEGAL immagrants and Immagrants.
The immagrants come here to be Americans and go through a process. They follow the laws we set for immagration. No one is saying we do not want immagration. We are saying we want to stop ILLEGAL immagration. Of the ones I have met, they want to get what they can while here and go back. They do not want to be Amenricans. They think we are a rich nation and we can afford to give them what they want. They break our laws, they have pamphlets that show them how to work our system, Issued by the Mexican Government on how to get Free health care, and free assistance. They make what they can while here and go back to Mexico to retire. While all this is free to them is costs us. We all pay for it one way or another. We pay for it in terrible schools, we pay for it in added taxes, we pay for it in higher medical costs. We pay for it in stolen identities and the added costs. We have people that have paid very little into the SS system drawing full benefits, they prove they paid under your SS number and they claim a check. Adding Millions of people that should not get SS draw it.
Also why are they allowed to break multiple of our laws? Try going to Mexico and breaking a few of their laws. Fly an American flag, demand a free interperter, demand free education, drive your car there. Let me know how long it took you to get out of jail. I would ask what the food tastes like at the jail but if your family does not send food you don't eat. Demand food and rights in jail. If you drive your car there and do not have Mexican insurance they take your car and keep it for the Police to use. But we allow mexicans to drive here with out a registered car, with out insurance and with out licenses. In CA they just made it a law that as long as someone shows up with a license they can drive a car away if you claim you are not a citizen. Presumabley as soon as you get it home you will have it back still unregistered, uninsured, and driving un licensed. In Santa Anna CA they claim a sacuary city and had to stop all DUI check points as all they caught were ILLEGALS. So if you are Illegal you can drive drunk, unlicensed, uninsured, and not registered in Santa Anna CA. Just a few miled from Disney Land.
In San Francisco another sacuary city we had a family killed by MS13 members who had deportaion warrants against them and they shot up a father and two kids who made a wrong turn on a CITY street.
Why is it OK to have these criminals on our streets and a trip out to get ice cream turns into murder or a trip to Disney ends in a drunk driver hitting you on the way home.
At what point should we not just deport all to Afganistan, China, France or Iran? I am talking about the ellected officials that defy the oaths of office to uphold the laws of the land.

powderman · « **Reply #9 on:** January 29, 2012, 04:39:26 PM »

crusty. What you say is not true, just liberal gibberish. I reckon you missed, or ignored my post about these criminal invaders getting WIC?? I'll post the link below. Read it then tell me it's not happening. POWDERMAN.

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,250442.0.html

Hooker · « **Reply #10 on:** January 29, 2012, 05:14:29 PM »

The Huffington Post ? Is that where you go for news and information ?

If they are undocumented we have no idea what they are paying or how they are being paid.
But I can tell you for a fact that if they are undocumented they will work for less money. All they do is keep legals form earning a better wage in agriculture and construction fields. On a lot of these jobs they work as day labor and are paid in cash. A large portion of these immigrants legal or illegal are sending large amounts of their earnings back to their home countries. Sure they pay rent, buy groceries, some even buy houses.
Even if they own a home and pay property tax they add nothing to the economy. Because whether they own it or not someone is going to pay the property tax.
Most illegals have no drivers license and therefore can not get insurance they are a financial threat to everyone on the road.
And these are only a few of the things these illegals effect.
No we don't need them or the propaganda that says we do.

Pat

BAGTIC · « **Reply #11 on:** January 29, 2012, 06:24:26 PM »

r government obeyed its own laws. When you catch an illegal, deport them. If they have a kid born here they have an option. Take the kid with them or arrange for someone to care for them in the parents absence. If they take the child it has the option when it reaches 18 years to remain where it is at or to return to the USA as an American citizen.

gypsyman · « **Reply #12 on:** January 29, 2012, 06:54:57 PM »

If undocumented immigrants are so great, why don't they stay in their own country and make it great. Instead, they want to change our's. We've got enough American's out of work, they get hungry enough, they'll go to work. gypsyman

daywash123 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2012, 01:04:20 AM »

I am a foreman for a paver installation crew in Bergen county NJ, and have been so for 5 years. I get a new white kid, he shows up late, comes with a sense of entitlement (thinks it's ok to talk on cell phone half an hour at a rip, needs to leave in the first hour cause he forgot to crap this morning) and can't stay past 5. You want work accomplished, send me a Mexican any day of the week. You want me to hire your kid, teach him how to work.

gypsyman · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2012, 03:20:55 AM »

Daywash, I agree 100%. Kids arn't hungry enough. Mommy and daddy still paying the cell phone bill. They need to cut them off and let them find out what it takes to survive. Unfortuneatley, it's guys like you that are caught in the middle. Find a young guy with a wife and 2 kids, and that will be a person most likely to do what it takes. But, you can't ask them if their married or not, because it violates their right. Not sure what right it violates??Govt. got that screwed up too!! gypsyman

bilmac · « **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2012, 05:34:27 AM »

There are immegrants and there are immegrants. What I see where I live are hard working guys who make it possible for the local mushroom plant to stay in business I rent to them and I can't help but like them. I'm told they are all legally in the country but I have no way of knowing that. I talk to the plant manager and he says the same thing Daywash does. White kids who will take his starting wage jobs are lazy bums.

I'm sure that the other side of the story is also true.

The problem is that the Feds are not doing their job. We used to have a guest worker program that worked. Why can't it be brought up to date and made to work. The kind of guys I know get in with a minimum of hassle and paperwork, they obey the law and are happy and we are happy. The freeloaders and criminals are loaded up and sent home and boarder patrols keep them from reentering.

Sourdough · « **Reply #16 on:** January 30, 2012, 06:05:37 AM »

OK the claim is made that they do jobs other Americans will not do. Lets take Tomatoes for instance. The Tomato industry cried take away our workers and we will go bankrupt. The price of tomatoes will go through the roof. Well it happened, suddenly they could not get enough pickers. The industry developed a tomato with a tougher skin, that would withstand an automated picker. Now no illegal pickers are needed.

Hay, another item where crews were needed to pick up and move the bales spit out by hay bailers all over the fields. Now they use the big round bails that can be moved by machines instead of many workers.

Oranges, another labor intensive item to pick. Today the trees are shaken by machines, then the oranges are picked up by another machine. No more big groups of labors needed.

So the point that workers are needed is mute to me. Why are so many unemployed? They are living on our social programs better than they can live in Mexico, thats why.

mcbammer · « **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2012, 06:05:53 AM »

Four more years of this economy and the illegals will figure out they can starve in Mexico as WELL as they can in the U.S.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #18 on:** January 30, 2012, 06:10:21 AM »

It's hard to get kids of any color to attend trade school. the local budweiser plant manager has lots of jobs if people would learn a skill. plumbers, electricians and many other skills can be gained in less than four years and these skills pay very well.
we can't all work in an office and wear a 3-piece suit.

daywash123 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2012, 06:54:26 AM »

Quote from: Sourdough on January 30, 2012, 06:05:37 AM

......
So the point that workers are needed is mute to me. Why are so many unemployed? They are living on our social programs better than they can live in Mexico, thats why.

Sir, I am 50 years old, from a small town in upstate New York that had 2 non-caucasions in our entire school system. Your language choices were Latin or French, not Espanol. Had you suggested to me 20 years ago I'd ever have a Mexican friend or learn to speak Spanish, I'd have laughed in your face. You get older, maybe you learn a little. You work along side a man, you learn his measure, all he's trying to do is provide for his family, same as I am. That he is born somewhere the other side of a line that I'll probably never see is less important to me than the fact that he's loyal as a damned dog and he'll give me a day's work for a day's pay,(hell, for the grace of God, it could be the other way around and I could be the geographically deprived individual). As the man that the boss wants to talk to when stuff doesn't get accomplished, do you know how much easier that makes my day? I realize that all illegal immigrants aren't good but I'm here to tell you, they aren't all bad.

mcbammer · « **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2012, 07:15:04 AM »

Lets make Mexico the 51st state ; If we bring up their standards of liveing the problem is solved. Many hunters go there now & I might go if it were under U.S. Control.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2012, 07:45:35 AM »

Daywash123, very good post. through my daughters best friend, we've became friends with many of them and they are fine folks. I've also been to a couple of small border towns and been in the yucatan twice. these folks can't really be blamed for risking their lives to come here. when you're hungry, you throw the law out the window.
there's a lesson here for liberals. the mexicans can't better themselves without guns and another obama term will put us in a similar boat.
I get on my knees and ask for guidance before I start talking about deportation.

crustylicious · « **Reply #22 on:** January 30, 2012, 09:16:21 AM »

Look at the liberal gibberish they're spouting in Kansas

Kansas ag secretary asks DHS to legitimize illegal immigrant farm labor
http://news.yahoo.com/kansas-ag-secretary-asks-dhs-legitimize-illegal-immigrant-070907757.html

Key phrase: "Faced with a shortage of hired hands"

guzzijohn · « **Reply #23 on:** January 30, 2012, 09:26:52 AM »

Quote from crustylicious:
"Kansas ag secretary asks DHS to legitimize illegal immigrant farm labor"

What will those darn Kansas republicans come up with next.

GuzziJohn

ironglow · « **Reply #24 on:** January 30, 2012, 09:54:51 AM »

Crusty;
A) First thing..knock off with that "UNDOCUMENTED" crap ! At least be honest enough to call them what they are .."ILLEGAL"..

B) If local kids are too lazy to work for a living...let them starve until they are hungry enough to take hold of their destiny..

C) As far as Kansas goes and Bilmac explained, there was a good program for alien workers to be documented..until the liberals destroyed it. That program was called the "Braceros" program, where truly alien workers could carry work permits for the seasonal duration. As a youngster, I recall picking beans, potatoes and strawberries beside these workers. In those days most were from Puerto Rico, Jamaica or other Carribean locations. The libbies didn't like the it, so a liberal administration did away with the program.

Trying to excuse the unlawful action, Crusty says;
" They still pay taxes. They make payroll deductions to Medicare and Social Security that they'll never see. I don't believe many are paid in cash. Is there a net benefit or drain on the system? It's my opinion that it's minimal."
oooooooooooooooooo
Crusty; the same can be said of people who are trying to immigrate the HONEST way. People from Hungary, Poland, Korea and many other countries get in line and do the HONEST thing..but it appears you would rather we recognize the illegal fence jumpers first..

What part of... I-L-L-E-G-A-L do you liberals not understand ?

Sourdough · « **Reply #25 on:** January 30, 2012, 11:45:35 AM »

There was a woman on the news a couple of nights ago. She is here from Mexico illegally. She has 10 kids, no husband, no job. She has been living on welfare. Now Arizona has passed tough laws, she is afraid she will be deported. She sells out and packs up to leave. As she is leaving, she is driving a late model Suburban, (not cheap, gas guzzler). Headed to Colorado, to again live on welfare. Calling an Illegal an Undocumented Immigrant, is like calling a Drug Dealer an Unlicensed Pharmacist.

Not all Illegals are Mexican, and they came here with no other choice, just ahead of a death squad. Their sole crime, going to school. Our government needs to recognize those individuals. But I'll start a new thread on that later. Still think we need to get tougher on the Mexicans. Eisenhower had the right plan.

powderman · « **Reply #26 on:** January 30, 2012, 02:09:04 PM »

Quote

I realize that all illegal immigrants aren't good but I'm here to tell you, they aren't all bad.

May be, but they are all criminals. They broke the law coming here and continue to break our laws daily. They make a mockery of our laws and shame the millions who have obeyeyed our laws, followed the rules, learned and speak English, and have become proud Americans. POWDERMAN.

crustylicious · « **Reply #27 on:** January 30, 2012, 02:38:20 PM »

And I'm proud to be part of a community that helps prepare it's natural born citizens for a successful future in this great country!
The National Blue Ribbon Schools Award recognizes public and private elementary, middle and high schools that excel regardless of race or socioeconomic status
http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20120130/NEWS/120139989/1001&parentprofile=1062

spitpatch · « **Reply #28 on:** January 30, 2012, 02:53:48 PM »

One error I see with crusty is he's reading the huffington post.....liberal rag.

daywash123 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 30, 2012, 10:48:45 PM »

Quote from: powderman on January 30, 2012, 02:09:04 PM

Quote
I realize that all illegal immigrants aren't good but I'm here to tell you, they aren't all bad.
May be, but they are all criminals. They broke the law coming here and continue to break our laws daily. They make a mockery of our laws and shame the millions who have obeyeyed our laws, followed the rules, learned and speak English, and have become proud Americans. POWDERMAN.

Sir, did you read the paper on immigration policy? Did you see the number of visas that are handed out for working class immigrants? It is easy to sit here fat and happy and pontificate what others who are less fortunate to do. Question; you have no work, your family is hungry, you have no food, there's a deer in your front yard. You going to follow the letter of the law and watch that deer walk away?