Author Topic: Model 1873 44  (Read 1142 times)

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Offline scottbiddle

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Model 1873 44
« on: January 30, 2012, 02:14:45 PM »
I have a model 1873 44 cal.  Kings Improvement Serial # 156460A  Good condition.  What is it worth and where can I find its history?  Here's a photo of the serial number.   

Offline Lloyd Smale

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2012, 02:15:10 AM »
its worth enough to justify a professional appraisal
blue lives matter

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2012, 02:29:03 AM »
My book says it was made in 1884.
Depending on the condition and any extra/special features it can be anywhere from $800.00 to who knows.
From the limited photo you posted it looks to have little bluing left with some metal deterioration, (rust).
Is it a round barrel (which was the standard issue) or an octagon barrel (the most common)?
What length barrel?
Does the action, lever, hammer show any signs of color case hardening?
What sights are on the gun?
Does it have a full or part magazine?
Is the gun complete?
Are the screw heads messed up from ill fitting screwdrivers being used on them?
Has the wood been refinished?
All this can have a drastic impact on the value of the gun.
Can you post some more pics of it?
This might help answere some of my questions.
I have been collecting model 73s for over 35 years and can tell you that there is no end to the features that could be ordered on many of the old Winchesters.
You can write the BUFFALO BILL HISTORICAL CENTER - CODY MUSEUM --- CODY WYOMING and for a fee, (it use to be $100.00) they will do a records search and send you a copy of the official record of that gun (also known as a factory letter) which will tell you the date it was made, when & where it was shipped to along with how many other guns were in that shipment.
A factory letter can double the price of a gun if it all matches.
I have letters on all but one of mine.
One of them was shipped to BROWNING BROTHERS GENERAL MERCANTILE in OGDEN UTAH which was a small store owned and run by JOHN M. BROWNING and his brothers when he was first starting out in the gun business and the stocked is stamped to prove it.
Handled by JOHN M. BROWNING himself.
What is this one worth???
A factory letter will tell all this and can be well worth the money & time spent to get it.
Post some more pics and we will see if we can be of any more help.
 
 
LONGTOM
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"THE TREE OF LIBERTY FROM TIME TO TIME MUST BE REFRESHED WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS".
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That my two young sons may never have to know the horrors of war. 

I will stand for your rights as my forefathers did before me!
My thanks to those who have, are and will stand for mine!
To those in the military, I salute you!

LONGTOM 9-25-07

Offline tacklebury

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2012, 03:37:30 PM »
Some statistics here.  Says how many of each type etc.  I've often found best pricing info without official appraisal is by searching past auctions at gunbroker and a few others.  Look for specimens that are close in detail and vintage.   ;)
 
http://www.gun-data.com/winchester_73.htm
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline scottbiddle

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2012, 05:05:36 PM »
Thanks for the great info.  I've attached more photos for comment.

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2012, 03:05:47 AM »
A little more research in another one of my books says it was made in 1882.
Your gun is what is called a THIRD MODEL or last model made.
This is noted by the dust cover on top of the frame as having the slide rails made as part of the frame itself instead of the early version having the rails installed separately.
It is also noted that the third model only had one screw located at the lower rear side of the frame in stead of the earlier two screws just behind the side plate.
Your gun has a few special order features on it.
1-It has an octagon barrel, round barrels were standard but most guns were ordered with octagon barrel.
2-It has a 2/3 rds magazine. This is a quite rare feature.
Most all rifles had a full length magazine while some had a half magazine.
You don't say what length barrel your has.
That can make a difference also.
Also need to see a pic of the front & rear sight along with a pic of the trigger.
If there is a small screw beside the trigger than it has a set trigger. Again, this would be special order.
Your gun has the standard rifle trapdoor butt plate. Shame it doesn't still have the cleaning rod with it.
The wood looks to be of standard grade Walnut with a good percentage of finish but would need to see it first hand to say for sure.
From the pics I would put this gun in about 50% condition. Really hard to say without seeing it first hand.
Blue Book OF Gun Values #29 which is a couple of years old lists it as having a value of about $1500.00 to $2000.00 for an above average gun, which yours is for sure.
One in the 50% range as about $2700.00.
To this it says add 20% for caliber 44-40 in a third model.
It also says to add 30% for an octagon barrel in caliber 44-40 only.
In my experience this seems to be a little high since most of the guns you will see are of octagon barrel configuration, but that is what the book says!
According to the book, you are now over $4000.00.
Then you have to add for the 2/3 rds magazine along with anything else that it might have that we have not seen yet.
Could add several hundred dollars to the right collector.
It can all add up rather quickly.
Of course that is retail book value.
In reality you should expect at least 1/3 to 1/2 less if you are selling it to a dealer.
All in all, you have a very nice special order third model 1873 Winchester rifle.
I have seen enough to say that I would definitely invest in a factory letter from the BUFFALO BILL HISTORICAL CENTER - CODY MUSEUM --- CODY WYOMING regardless of the cost.
It would only enhance the price considerably, provided the factory letter backs up and confirms all the features that the gun has!!!
It could prove that some things have been changed or added also?
That is the chance you take.
Winchesters are so highly collectable that there have been a lot of fakes or enhanced guns put out for people who really don't know what they are buying!!!
Please take it to a very knowledgeable gun appraiser that specializes in lever action Winchesters and pay him for an honest appraisal.
By honest I mean ask him what percentage of his appraised value he would be willing to give for the gun after he has given a written appraisal..
If it is in the 70% range then most likely he is honest.
That should work out to about $2700.00 or a little better.
After all, he has to make a profit on it too!
I have found this to be a good honest average over the years I have been a collector.
 
Please keep us up to date as to anything you may find out about this gun.
 
 
LONGTOM
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"THE TREE OF LIBERTY FROM TIME TO TIME MUST BE REFRESHED WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS".
THOMAS JEFFERSON

That my two young sons may never have to know the horrors of war. 

I will stand for your rights as my forefathers did before me!
My thanks to those who have, are and will stand for mine!
To those in the military, I salute you!

LONGTOM 9-25-07

Offline scottbiddle

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2012, 08:51:44 AM »
Great Info!!!  You confirmed some of the limited research I was able to do and then some.  You made my day.  Thank you.  I contacted the museum in Cody to get the factory letter.  The gun is in my opinion a piece of art and will go great with my US issue McClellan Saddle and scabbard in a display case.  The factory letter will add to the cool factor.  I feel really lucky to have it come into my possession.  Thanks again for the response.

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2012, 09:35:00 AM »
Quote
I contacted the museum in Cody to get the factory letter.

 

That is great.
I look forward to hearing what the center says it was when it left the factory.
Hope it supports everything the gun has and maybe that it was shipped someplace or to someone of special instrest !!!
Please let me know when you find out.
I am very curious to know.
 
 
Thanks
LONGTOM
NRA Benefactor Life Member
NAHC Life Member
NRA Member-JAMES MADISON BRIGADE
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US OLIMPIC SHOOTING TEAM supporter

"THE TREE OF LIBERTY FROM TIME TO TIME MUST BE REFRESHED WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS".
THOMAS JEFFERSON

That my two young sons may never have to know the horrors of war. 

I will stand for your rights as my forefathers did before me!
My thanks to those who have, are and will stand for mine!
To those in the military, I salute you!

LONGTOM 9-25-07

Offline tacklebury

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2012, 12:18:38 PM »
Very cool man.  8) 
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline scottbiddle

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2012, 03:43:44 PM »
LongTom, I posted pictures of the front and rear sites, trigger and firing pin.  I also ordered the factory letter.  Now, the big question...  Should I shoot it?  If I do, what kind of loads.  I really just want to shoot it a few times before I encase it.  Also, I know better than to start cleaning it too much or removing any finish, but, if I do shoot it, I don't want to be leaving residue in the chamber and barrel... Your advise would be appreciated.

Offline scottbiddle

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2012, 03:44:39 PM »
Oh, and it's a 24" barrel.

Offline tacklebury

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2012, 04:27:16 PM »
Check it out all over before shooting.  Look particularly at the wood stocks and make sure after years of "unuse" they haven't split or anything.  I have an original 1881 Marlin 40-60 Marlin I just started loading for.  I'm shooting FFFg only under lead only bullets.  These guns never tasted smokeless and weren't made to take the additional shock that smokeless pressures can add.  I shot the old girl for the first time last Saturday.  I've been wanting to shoot this gun for 34 years, but my grand-dad wouldn't let me.  Finally gave in.  hehe  Oh well, that's a Scotsman for ya, stubborn.  ;)  Mine was my great uncle's buffalo gun.  He was hired by the Railroads back in the 1800's to kill buffalo.  He purchased it in 1886 and it's been in our family ever since.  Last time she spoke was 1926 approx.  My great grandfather was the last to shoot it after the uncle passed during WWI.
 
Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

also classics: M903 9-shot Target .22 Revolver, 1926 .410 Single, 1915 38 S&W Break top Revolver and 7-shot H&R Trapper .22 6" bbl.


Offline scottbiddle

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2012, 05:14:19 PM »
Thats a very cool history. 

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2012, 05:56:07 PM »
OK, nothing special about the sights or barrel.
It has the standard 24" octagon rifle barrel.
I say standard, a round barrel was the standard buy few had them.
Most came with an octagon one which was suppose to have cost extra but seldom was there ever an extra charge for a 24" octagon barrel.
The rear sight is of the one piece design with the standard elevator.
The front sight is also a standard two piece design with a steel dovetail base and a nickle silver blade.
These sights were pretty common with Winchesters back then on different models.
The trigger is just the standard issue also.
That's OK, they look to be the original ones that came on the gun when new.
Shows that the gun wasn't messed with somewhere along the line.
Glad you are getting the letter.
Man, I can't wait to here what it has to say!
 
As far as shooting it I would have it checked first by a gunsmith to make sure it is sound, (which I am sure it is) and then if he says OK, by all means, shoot it.
Make sure he pulls the side plates off and checks the toggle links out.
They are the weak spot on a 73.
That is why you need to use low pressure loads.
Those links can break but they should be fine with cowboy loads.
Only shoot standard lead cowboy loads or light hand loads through it.
Stay away from the jacketed bullets as they will wear on the barrel pretty fast.
As long as you stick to black powder equal loads with lead bullets you will not hurt it.
I have shot all of mine many times with no problems.
Just make sure you clean the bore lightly and use a good gun oil on it afterwards.
Don't try to clean the metal with anything other than gun oil and a soft towel.
Just keep it oiled and it will be fine.
I pretty much leave the wood alone except to maybe put a coat of wood wax on it.
Don't use gun oil although I am sure it has had many a coats on it in the past.
That is why it is black around where the metal meets the wood.
Take her out and enjoy the ol girl.
It has been shot plenty in its life and a few more rounds ain't going to hurt her.
There is nothing like shooting a 100 plus year old gun.
Kind of takes you back to the heydays of the old west!
 
Let me know when you get that letter!!!
 
 
LONGTOM
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"THE TREE OF LIBERTY FROM TIME TO TIME MUST BE REFRESHED WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS".
THOMAS JEFFERSON

That my two young sons may never have to know the horrors of war. 

I will stand for your rights as my forefathers did before me!
My thanks to those who have, are and will stand for mine!
To those in the military, I salute you!

LONGTOM 9-25-07

Offline eastbank

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2012, 06:35:17 AM »
my favorite winchester lever action,a 1876 in 45-60 made in 1883 with a special order 30 inch barrel. i hunt it several days a year in doe season. i shoot 350gr cast bullets at 1200fps. the sling is a tc muzzel loader that needs no putting sweive holes . eastbank.

Offline scottbiddle

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2012, 12:23:50 PM »
Nice looking gun.  Great idea on the sling. 
 

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2012, 04:21:01 PM »
eastbank:
Are they the original sights?
The brass blade front looks like it.
I really like the ladder style rear sight.
Nice looking gun!
 
 
LONGTOM
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"THE TREE OF LIBERTY FROM TIME TO TIME MUST BE REFRESHED WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS".
THOMAS JEFFERSON

That my two young sons may never have to know the horrors of war. 

I will stand for your rights as my forefathers did before me!
My thanks to those who have, are and will stand for mine!
To those in the military, I salute you!

LONGTOM 9-25-07

Offline eastbank

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2012, 07:44:43 AM »
the sights are original,front has a brass blade factory insert,rear is the latter type up to 1000yds,and marked 1876. eastbank.

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2012, 04:43:16 PM »
the sights are original,front has a brass blade factory insert,rear is the latter type up to 1000yds,and marked 1876. eastbank.

I thought they were.
Nice pics.
 
 
LONGTOM
NRA Benefactor Life Member
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"THE TREE OF LIBERTY FROM TIME TO TIME MUST BE REFRESHED WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS".
THOMAS JEFFERSON

That my two young sons may never have to know the horrors of war. 

I will stand for your rights as my forefathers did before me!
My thanks to those who have, are and will stand for mine!
To those in the military, I salute you!

LONGTOM 9-25-07

Offline LONGTOM

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Re: Model 1873 44
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2012, 01:27:26 AM »
Still waiting to hear what's in that Cody letter!
 
 
LONGTOM
NRA Benefactor Life Member
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"THE TREE OF LIBERTY FROM TIME TO TIME MUST BE REFRESHED WITH THE BLOOD OF PATRIOTS AND TYRANTS".
THOMAS JEFFERSON

That my two young sons may never have to know the horrors of war. 

I will stand for your rights as my forefathers did before me!
My thanks to those who have, are and will stand for mine!
To those in the military, I salute you!

LONGTOM 9-25-07