Author Topic: Drug testing for welfare. (Read 4013 times)

rickt300 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 01, 2012, 05:04:13 AM »

I disagree with all who take this reason for drug testing positively. All of you and myself are constantly watching our rights be eroded, this was done the same way Hitler ended up killing millions of Jews piece by piece. The drug war is the big foot in the door to the elimination of our individual rights, supporting anything that does that is a damn fool thing to do. Just because you have to take a drug test to please the insurance company or Workmans comp that your job is using does this make it right? Do the 4th and 5th amendments mean anything to you? Just because you work for company why is it that they can suspend those rights and you just sing along? Another thing being on welfare doesn't make you a criminal does it? Welfare looks like a jail cell to me in the first place, can't afford to go anywhere, in most states they can't even afford a car or the state looks at it like a car is a asset you can't have thus trapping millions on welfare. You characters need to start actually thinking instead of reacting to plots governments try to put in place. Funny how your concept of freedom is so small.

guzzijohn · « **Reply #31 on:** February 01, 2012, 05:10:34 AM »

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #32 on:** February 01, 2012, 05:21:52 AM »

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on January 31, 2012, 11:06:50 AM

Quote from: SHOOTALL on January 31, 2012, 10:46:58 AM
You sir , you seemed to have missed the fact that some think those collecting govt. wealfare checks should be tested . Nothing about Govt. WORKERS although they often get over paid as is being reported in the news ..........

And YOU seem to have missed my earlier post concerning drug testing and government workers, go back and read it again.

And yes I agree that some government jobs are tatamount to welfare, but many are doing critical jobs that keep America going........although you may not want to believe it.

Sorry I missed it , I stand corrected

turk762 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 01, 2012, 06:30:13 AM »

Quote from: rickt300 on February 01, 2012, 05:04:13 AM

I disagree with all who take this reason for drug testing positively. All of you and myself are constantly watching our rights be eroded, this was done the same way Hitler ended up killing millions of Jews piece by piece. The drug war is the big foot in the door to the elimination of our individual rights, supporting anything that does that is a damn fool thing to do. Just because you have to take a drug test to please the insurance company or Workmans comp that your job is using does this make it right? Do the 4th and 5th amendments mean anything to you? Just because you work for company why is it that they can suspend those rights and you just sing along? Another thing being on welfare doesn't make you a criminal does it? Welfare looks like a jail cell to me in the first place, can't afford to go anywhere, in most states they can't even afford a car or the state looks at it like a car is a asset you can't have thus trapping millions on welfare. You characters need to start actually thinking instead of reacting to plots governments try to put in place. Funny how your concept of freedom is so small.

Being on welfare is not a crime, but drug use is.

If the parents cared for the children they would do what is necessary to provide for them, Is this too much to ask?

I agree that the gov. is prying to much into our rights and this needs to stop, but I dont think welfare is right, and the parents do have a choice as to being on it. If you are on it stay clean, if not do as you want, pretty simple. They still have the FREEDOM of choice, use the system or don't. Just like us working for employers pee testing, legally, I have the FREEDOM to refuse the test, but if I don't they have the FREEDOM to not hire me. FREEDOM to some is lopsided, others have freedom as well.

What it comes down to is take care of your own, like the rest of us. Or if you need help, stay clean like the rest of us working stiffs have to.

A pee test is one of the easiest test I have ever taken, there is no difficult questions to answer, pee in a cup and you usually know the results before you even give them the cup. (in your own mind at least). I have never come close to FAILING one, I wonder why?

So you believe drugs are NOT a problem here? But the gov. providing for their families is? Why is this?

I do agree welfare is a trap, hard for people to get out of it, part of the reason I disagree with it and it would be better to help keep them off of it. More freedom to do what they need to to provide for the families.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #34 on:** February 01, 2012, 06:37:18 AM »

Quote from: rickt300 on February 01, 2012, 05:04:13 AM

I disagree with all who take this reason for drug testing positively. All of you and myself are constantly watching our rights be eroded, this was done the same way Hitler ended up killing millions of Jews piece by piece. The drug war is the big foot in the door to the elimination of our individual rights, supporting anything that does that is a damn fool thing to do. Just because you have to take a drug test to please the insurance company or Workmans comp that your job is using does this make it right? Do the 4th and 5th amendments mean anything to you? Just because you work for company why is it that they can suspend those rights and you just sing along? Another thing being on welfare doesn't make you a criminal does it? Welfare looks like a jail cell to me in the first place, can't afford to go anywhere, in most states they can't even afford a car or the state looks at it like a car is a asset you can't have thus trapping millions on welfare. You characters need to start actually thinking instead of reacting to plots governments try to put in place. Funny how your concept of freedom is so small.

you need to look closer , they go places many workers can't afford to go. I called a guy back from being laid off and he couldn't come back for two weeks , he was on vacation . His girlfriend was on wealfare .

powderman · « **Reply #35 on:** February 01, 2012, 08:13:07 AM »

HEH. Not hard to see that theres several here that could not pass a pee test. Employers have the right not to hire dopers, depending on the type of job they may even endanger the lives of those working around them or customers. Who wants to hire a doper to work for them?? Come on guys WHO?? POWDERMAN.

guzzijohn · « **Reply #36 on:** February 01, 2012, 08:23:21 AM »

Quote from Powderman:
"HEH. Not hard to see that theres several here that could not pass a pee test. Employers have the right not to hire dopers, depending on the type of job they may even endanger the lives of those working around them or customers. Who wants to hire a doper to work for them?? Come on guys WHO?? POWDERMAN."

I would hire a doper long before I would hire a drunk. Don't want a a doper smoking on the job and I don't want a drinker drinking on the job, but the the person who smoked the night before will not be coming to work with a hangover which can have a major effect on job performance.
GuzziJohn

powderman · « **Reply #37 on:** February 01, 2012, 09:34:17 AM »

guzzi. You have said that you farm. Would you want to turn a doper loose with your tractor or machinery?? I wouldn't. POWDERMAN.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #38 on:** February 01, 2012, 09:36:01 AM »

Why employers have a right to test for drugs/alc abuse. In Va if a person using either causes a accident then the insurance is not obligated to pay off on the claim. This could put an employer in a bit of a bind . So the only way to protect themselves is to test.
Freedom is a wonderful concept. Many men have died trying to achieve it and others died trying to preserve it . The crying shame is many in our country can't seem to realize that obeying laws and not using illegal drugs and such is as important as the soilder fighting for it. We can lose all our freedoms by abusing the system. There would be no need for testing if there were no abuse in the first place. I say abuse it lose it ! What some chime in and call freedom is nothing more than crying for abusing the system at the expence of loss of freedoms for all. So if you think you were free to trash the law by smoking a joint or driving drunk you were as guilty as a terroist at causing loss of freedom. If you want a joint then rally all who do and change the law in the way our consitution allows don't pizz on it !
OK I will step down off the soap box now.........

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #39 on:** February 01, 2012, 09:37:24 AM »

I've worked with both dopers and drunks as far as I'n concerned I don't care to work or work either they are a problem looking for a place to happen.

guzzijohn · « **Reply #40 on:** February 01, 2012, 09:41:15 AM »

Quote from Powderman:
"guzzi. You have said that you farm. Would you want to turn a doper loose with your tractor or machinery?? I wouldn't. POWDERMAN."

As I said in my previous post that if the worker was smoking the night before, NOT ON THE JOB, compared to a person that drank enough the night before to come to work with a hangover I would much rather trust the doper on the tractor.
GuzziJohn

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #41 on:** February 01, 2012, 09:46:20 AM »

doper better than drunk hum , guess you limit it to pot. Doper smoking crack will hurt you. Had one sell all the tools off one of our trucks to buy crack. He also took the truck at 2 am got caught DUI and the truck was impounded for 4 days at 360 a day.
I think it foolish to allow either to operate equipment or have access to assets.

guzzijohn · « **Reply #42 on:** February 01, 2012, 12:43:57 PM »

I was not referring to crack I was referring to pot smokers only. A whole different ballgame concerning impairment.
GuzziJohn

turk762 · « **Reply #43 on:** February 01, 2012, 02:29:38 PM »

Quote from: guzzijohn on February 01, 2012, 09:41:15 AM

Quote from Powderman:
"guzzi. You have said that you farm. Would you want to turn a doper loose with your tractor or machinery?? I wouldn't. POWDERMAN."

As I said in my previous post that if the worker was smoking the night before, NOT ON THE JOB, compared to a person that drank enough the night before to come to work with a hangover I would much rather trust the doper on the tractor.
GuzziJohn

Guzzi, I would agree with you to a certain degree, I would trust the doper more then the drunk the next day if this was my only choices.

As was said earlier their is liability concerns with letting either work, if you are willing to take the chance that is up to you. I have seen both drunks and druggies that where very hard workers, but I have seen far more that were not.

With the drugs it shows the mentallity to not want to follow the rules or laws and rebel against the man, if they work for you, that would be YOU. They may steal, lie, be irresponsible, not come to work, not follow your rules and guidelines, ect, ect. Not all are this way but the law of averages they will be.

Gary G · « **Reply #44 on:** February 01, 2012, 02:30:22 PM »

Well, I guess I am going to have to pay for it - not something I wanted to spend my money on.

A better idea would be to phase out welfare. It hurts the overall economy as well as hurts the people receiving it.

Oh, wait a minute......I don't live in Kentucky.

rickt300 · « **Reply #45 on:** February 01, 2012, 07:29:25 PM »

Quote from: powderman on February 01, 2012, 08:13:07 AM

HEH. Not hard to see that theres several here that could not pass a pee test. Employers have the right not to hire dopers, depending on the type of job they may even endanger the lives of those working around them or customers. Who wants to hire a doper to work for them?? Come on guys WHO?? POWDERMAN.

Powderman, this is an example of simple mindedness. First in your mind what constitues a doper? Do you think they only test the "dopers", what about the rest of us? If indeed it takes a pee test to figure out someone has a drug problem then just how much of a problem are they? I don't care what you do on your own time, if you are drunk or screwed up and come to work you are fired. Get it yet? You are willing to throw all of our rights under the buss Why?

rickt300 · « **Reply #46 on:** February 01, 2012, 07:44:32 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 01, 2012, 09:36:01 AM

Why employers have a right to test for drugs/alc abuse. In Va if a person using either causes a accident then the insurance is not obligated to pay off on the claim. This could put an employer in a bit of a bind . So the only way to protect themselves is to test.
Freedom is a wonderful concept. Many men have died trying to achieve it and others died trying to preserve it . The crying shame is many in our country can't seem to realize that obeying laws and not using illegal drugs and such is as important as the soilder fighting for it. We can lose all our freedoms by abusing the system. There would be no need for testing if there were no abuse in the first place. I say abuse it lose it ! What some chime in and call freedom is nothing more than crying for abusing the system at the expence of loss of freedoms for all. So if you think you were free to trash the law by smoking a joint or driving drunk you were as guilty as a terroist at causing loss of freedom. If you want a joint then rally all who do and change the law in the way our consitution allows don't pizz on it !
OK I will step down off the soap box now.........

Another of us missing the point. Look hard and show me where in the federal Constitution or state Constitution anywhere it says anything about what we are legally allowed to consume in any way. Trash the law? The law has trashed us. This is what I meant with the Hitler Jew concept, first we find a way to make hate and seperate the people then pounce. The law is trashing all of us, not just the people with problems and we are allowing it. All of our rights are being trashed and when we don't stand up against it because we think we are better than them socialism/fascism wins. Look at the money the Law takes from us in the name of the drug war, the toll on our rights. How many "dopers" do you actually know? Why aren't we putting more focus on corrupt politicians?

ironglow · « **Reply #47 on:** February 02, 2012, 12:44:55 AM »

Actually government welfare systems are all an intrusion on the rights of working people, who are being fleeced to provide a free living for many who don't deserve it, and who refuse to work nearly as hard as many of those being taxed to support them.
Regardless what some say, there is widespread abuse going on and in the case of welfarer abusers, they are often times spending their ill-gotten gains on things which many of those being taxed heavily, simply cannot afford. Need we go through some of the more egregious abuses...I guess so..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317737/California-welfare-scandal--69million-benefits-spent-Vegas-Hawaii-Disney-World.html

You guys who are defending the status quo of the current welfare system are just running cover for a politician's dream scheme of... "take from the taxpayer to buy more votes for myself".

At least Colorado seems to be catching on;
http://pohdiaries.com/colorado-bill-bans-welfare-cards-at-strip-clubs/

ironglow · « **Reply #48 on:** February 02, 2012, 01:11:29 AM »

Quote from: guzzijohn on February 01, 2012, 04:15:21 AM

Quote from Ironglow:
" I know lot of farmers and not one is a doper to my knowledge."

To my knowledge is the key word. There are farmers that smoke weed and there are farmers that grow it. They manage to do just fine farming. Back in the 80s many a farmer would have gone totally under if they had not been producing a "cash crop".
GuzziJohn

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Yes, to my knowledge none of my farmer friends are doing what the cartels are doing.... growing an illegal crop. If they were, they likely wouldn't be my friends very long; especially after the law took care of business. Incidently, I feel the same about habitual game poachers too...and I'm not inclined to buddy up with robbers, burglars, rapists or extortioners and a host of other illegal activities.
If a farmer goes into growing dope..is he still a real farmer ? If a foster parent sexually abuses the girls in his care, is he still just a foster parent ? Please...farmer and foster parent are both dignified titles...
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

There seems to be a real disconnect here in the case of dope, just as in the case of alien workers... some folks just can't understand I-L-L-E-G-A-L...
...And curiously; it often seems to be the same people in both cases...

powderman · « **Reply #49 on:** February 02, 2012, 02:41:37 AM »

Rick. My OP had to do with our tax $s paying to support the drug habits of those on welfare. I don't believe tax $s should pay for their pot or their drug of choice while they are fed, clothed, med care, and earning none of it. Welfare is necessary for some folks, and thats fine, but it's supposed to be a hand up, not a way of life. You are free to choose to do drugs, or not. Your employer has the right to fire you for doing so, same with alcohol. Gotta go, taking Patty to another dr. POWDERMAN.

turk762 · « **Reply #50 on:** February 02, 2012, 03:14:31 AM »

Quote from: rickt300 on February 01, 2012, 07:44:32 PM

Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 01, 2012, 09:36:01 AM
Why employers have a right to test for drugs/alc abuse. In Va if a person using either causes a accident then the insurance is not obligated to pay off on the claim. This could put an employer in a bit of a bind . So the only way to protect themselves is to test.
Freedom is a wonderful concept. Many men have died trying to achieve it and others died trying to preserve it . The crying shame is many in our country can't seem to realize that obeying laws and not using illegal drugs and such is as important as the soilder fighting for it. We can lose all our freedoms by abusing the system. There would be no need for testing if there were no abuse in the first place. I say abuse it lose it ! What some chime in and call freedom is nothing more than crying for abusing the system at the expence of loss of freedoms for all. So if you think you were free to trash the law by smoking a joint or driving drunk you were as guilty as a terroist at causing loss of freedom. If you want a joint then rally all who do and change the law in the way our consitution allows don't pizz on it !
OK I will step down off the soap box now.........
Another of us missing the point. Look hard and show me where in the federal Constitution or state Constitution anywhere it says anything about what we are legally allowed to consume in any way. Trash the law? The law has trashed us. This is what I meant with the Hitler Jew concept, first we find a way to make hate and seperate the people then pounce. The law is trashing all of us, not just the people with problems and we are allowing it. All of our rights are being trashed and when we don't stand up against it because we think we are better than them socialism/fascism wins. Look at the money the Law takes from us in the name of the drug war, the toll on our rights. How many "dopers" do you actually know? Why aren't we putting more focus on corrupt politicians?

What law? The drug laws? So you want to make the legal? Ever seen what meth, coke or crack does to someone? Ever seen what it does to a Family? And to you this is fine? Occasional pot smoker is one thing, but you make it sound as if all drug laws are trampling your right. I dont believe they should legalize pot, but you are talking about drug laws as a whole.

People have always been willing to hate or fight one another even if the gov. saw not there to help it along. People didnt sit around the campfire and sing kumbia (sp?).

If the gov. starts to pull pot heads and drugies and their families out of there homes and shoot them or load them on to a train for destinations unknown (like nazis and jews) I will fight side by side with you,I think most that disagree with you here would as well, but this is not happening. They are getting a simple citation or little time in jail for small amounts. Large amounts or heavier drugs= time in prison.

Pot-Bellied Stallion · « **Reply #51 on:** February 02, 2012, 03:22:11 AM »

"Probably the first group that needs to be tested is our congressmen and senators, how else do you explain some of their behaviors? Then work our way down."GuzziJohn

Guzzi, don't you mean work our way UP?

turk762 · « **Reply #52 on:** February 02, 2012, 03:31:29 AM »

To many people think that FREEDOM is absolute, it is not, we need laws rules and guidelines to follow or it would not work.

Absolute freedom means no laws to govern.

If we have absolute freedom I could go into someones home, steal their things, rape their wife, kill their dog and children and their would be nothing anyone can do about it. This is true FREEDOM.

Doesnt sound that great to me.

We need to have some laws and guides to follow for protection of all. You may disagree with some of them and that is fine, a majority of the public want the drug laws where they are, (except cal. LOL)

Some laws are need for the greater good of everyone, if crappy laws are put out we band together to have them changed.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #53 on:** February 02, 2012, 03:57:52 AM »

Quote from: powderman on February 01, 2012, 08:13:07 AM

Come on guys WHO?? POWDERMAN.

Apple, maybe? I guarantee you... once they woo a talented engineer away from Google, they won't be telling him to pee in a bottle or lose his job.

Steve Jobs smoked weed, dropped acid, and changed the world... how the heck did that happen?
http://politics.salon.com/2011/10/08/steve_jobs_and_drug_policy/singleton/

guzzijohn · « **Reply #54 on:** February 02, 2012, 04:39:29 AM »

Quote from Pot-Bellied Stallion:
"Guzzi, don't you mean work our way UP?"

Good Point!

GuzziJohn

Casull · « **Reply #55 on:** February 02, 2012, 04:42:21 AM »

Quote

Steve Jobs smoked weed, dropped acid, and changed the world

Same could be said about Charles Manson.

Gary G · « **Reply #56 on:** February 02, 2012, 05:30:34 AM »

Drug dealers support the war on drugs. It guarantees profitability.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #57 on:** February 02, 2012, 05:51:18 AM »

Quote from: turk762 on February 02, 2012, 03:31:29 AM

If we have absolute freedom I could go into someones home, steal their things, rape their wife, kill their dog and children and their would be nothing anyone can do about it. This is true FREEDOM.

No its not , Freedom is the absence of restraint , for you to do as listed it would require restraint . Freedom is free from restraint of another.
on the other hand the guy could kill you if he felt free at the time.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #58 on:** February 02, 2012, 05:53:07 AM »

Quote from: Casull on February 02, 2012, 04:42:21 AM

Quote
Steve Jobs smoked weed, dropped acid, and changed the world

Same could be said about Charles Manson.

how much more could Jobs have done if he had not abused drugs ? Maybe Manson would have lead a productive life had he not .

powderman · « **Reply #59 on:** February 02, 2012, 11:59:43 AM »

Alcohol doesn't stay in the bloodstream even close to as long as wacky tobaccy. When I took diving lessons part of the education was the effects of drug use and the pressures of diving. He said that a guy died while being down about 30 ft or so, can't remember exactly what he said happened but it was claimed that he still had mj in his blood from a month ago. It was something to do with the underwater pressure and the mj caused a bad reaction. Wish I could remember it better. I worked construction with a guy who bragged about smoking every day. He stepped off a steel beam 120 ft up, SPLAT. POWDERMAN.