Author Topic: Drug testing for welfare. (Read 4032 times)

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #90 on:** February 04, 2012, 09:03:26 AM »

Ending government welfare would require massive voting out of those in office. So, for now we can at least get some off the dole by requiring drug testing. It might also bring down the illegal drug use, arrests, and tie up of the justice and prison systems. Even if marijuana is legalised, I would still want drug testing for dangerous jobs and drivers. To many accidents could happen with missuse. Alcohol is bad enough killing 20,000 + a year in auto accidents.

osokusmc · « **Reply #91 on:** February 04, 2012, 12:34:09 PM »

Quote from: Dixie Dude on February 04, 2012, 09:03:26 AM

Ending government welfare would require massive voting out of those in office. So, for now we can at least get some off the dole by requiring drug testing. It might also bring down the illegal drug use, arrests, and tie up of the justice and prison systems. Even if marijuana is legalised, I would still want drug testing for dangerous jobs and drivers. To many accidents could happen with missuse. Alcohol is bad enough killing 20,000 + a year in auto accidents.

Any savings from getting some off the dole would be more than negated by the cost of screening, enforcement, defending against appeals (since taxpayers would pay for both sides of the arguments), etc. Employers and insurance companies do a good enough job of curbing drug use. Since 1990, I've probably worked less than a year at a job that didn't require drug testing.

rickt300 · « **Reply #92 on:** February 04, 2012, 01:55:17 PM »

Quote from: mechanic on February 02, 2012, 12:56:28 PM

The constitution was written to protect the people from the government. It's only role is to limit government.
Civil law is written to protect us from each other.
Not true, civil law is often written to appease special interest groups, increase government power, spend your money. The drug war has created a huge tax burden on us along with creating chaos on our southern border, imprisoning hundreds of thousands of Americans who have committed no crime against another citizen and has allowed police power to reach levels never thought of in the past.
Sometimes it may be hard to reconcile the two.

One man's rights end when they limit mine. I can't drive drunk, not because it's unconstitutional, but because I have placed someone else's life and property in jeopardy, and thus circumvented their rights.
It is unconstitutional to injure someone intentionally or irresponsibly but it's ok as long as you have insurance and were distracted by a cell phone?

The problem now is that we have groups of people who think they have "rights' to what someone else has earned, and have no responsiblility attached to their supposed rights.
There are certainly those.

The constitution does not give anyone a right to someone else's property.
Interesting, then why do we pay property taxes every year? Why not just once?

No one has a constitutional right to anything other than to do whats best for themself, without circumventing the rights of others.
Exactly

For a man to take my money that I sweated for, and buy something that is morally wrong, as well as illegal in the first place makes a mockery of the law.
Do you want government/politicians to decide what is morally wrong? The drug war itself is a mockery upon us and we pay heavily for it in taxes.

Those who support others supposed "rights" to health care, a home, food, or anything else that such a one has not labored for, or at best socialists, and certainly don't represent the majority of this great land.
Those rights are not enumerated in the Constitution, agreed. However there is a large number of people who are dependent upon the dictatorial socialist country we have become. And we got there by letting our fellow man down and not supporting his rights because he is not just like you. When you let government attack any portion of society and do not raise a cry then you deserve the government you get. Why then should government respect you if you don't respect your fellow Americans?

Ben

I guess I have been lucky as I have known few people on any kind of assistance. I was also under the impression that if you could work you could not get welfare. I thought it was for women with children mostly. However I refuse to piss on someone because they are less fortunate than I.

mechanic · « **Reply #93 on:** February 04, 2012, 04:14:09 PM »

rickt300,

No one here is advocating pissing on the unfortunate. I personally endorse several checks each month to needy people, to help with medicine and food.

The subject being discussed is people who get welfare, and use it for nefarious purposes, be that drug use or whatever.

Yes, many people who are not disabled, and who just don't want to work get welfare. I could line up a bus load pretty quickly if called upon.

Genuine charity is helping others to help themselves whenever possible. What we have created in our country in many cases is a type of enslavement where generations have grown dependent on the masters of the government to keep them alive. Sad. More sad when they take that money and get high, while their children suffer.

Ben

rickt300 · « **Reply #94 on:** February 04, 2012, 09:11:12 PM »

I looked into what welfare is here in Texas. It is pure hopelessness. A single mother with 1 child gets $535. a month and $96. a month food stamps plus whatever Wic gives. A man who is not disabled cannot get welfare though if he has a kid he can get Wic if he doesn't make much per hour or welfare. I would think the woman with a child's only nefarious business would be selling sex or some low level drug sales to get just a little bit ahead of being stone cold broke all the time. Go ahead, piss test her or him, feel good about it. The huge benefit that welfare gives that is not available to the working poor is health care. Stand on your soap box and sing the praises of a war on our citizens that is killing thousands every year in Mexico and hundreds here in America. Justify it however you wish.

magooch · « **Reply #95 on:** February 05, 2012, 03:58:42 AM »

What is this "war on our citizens" of which you speak?

osokusmc · « **Reply #96 on:** February 05, 2012, 04:25:36 AM »

The best way to judge the merit of welfare cases is to make the contribution portion of the equation voluntary. Charities can screen the needy based on the moral beliefs of their contributors, and potential contributors can choose which charities to support or avoid. If you are needy, and you're a scoundrel, you need to modify your behavior to something that someone would feel compelled to voluntarily support, or face the consequences of your behavior. Who would get hurt in this system? Who could legitimately complain about this system? If you look at most people's complaints about the current welfare system, they would be addressed in a voluntary contribution scenario.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #97 on:** February 05, 2012, 04:51:13 AM »

The welfare money, food stamps, and WIC are not the only thing a single mother gets. She can get either government housing, or section 8 housing. They can also qualify for utility payments. This adds up to about $1,500 a month or more in the real world. Minimum wage only gets you about $1,200 a month. So it doesn't pay to work, but stay home and have babies and maybe get high every now and then on a few drugs. They also trade food stamps for either money or something else sometimes. I work for a utility, so I know that some bills are paid by the welfare departments. In poor neighborhoods, 85% of the bills go to women, exact opposite of middle and upper class in which most go to men. Reason, welfare, food stamps, WIC, section 8 housing, medicaid, utility bills paid, and housing. So the money can be spent on a car, bling-bling jewels, or anything else. When utility service people have to go to one of the section 8 homes with the bill listed under a woman's name, there is almost always a man living there. The welfare sytsem is the new welfare plantation. They are never free to move up in the world by being dependants. In 1960 13% of the American people were listed as under the poverty line. Today it is about 15/% or more. $3-4 trillion dollars in the last 40 years and no improvement. If it doesn't work go back to what did. State welfare agencys, not federal, commodities for food, not food stamps, allow chruches and family to help out. They can make them straighten up and live right and get off the welfare plantation.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #98 on:** February 05, 2012, 05:24:33 AM »

Quote from: mechanic on February 04, 2012, 04:14:09 PM

rickt300,

No one here is advocating pissing on the unfortunate. I personally endorse several checks each month to needy people, to help with medicine and food.

The subject being discussed is people who get welfare, and use it for nefarious purposes, be that drug use or whatever.

Yes, many people who are not disabled, and who just don't want to work get welfare. I could line up a bus load pretty quickly if called upon.

Genuine charity is helping others to help themselves whenever possible. What we have created in our country in many cases is a type of enslavement where generations have grown dependent on the masters of the government to keep them alive. Sad. More sad when they take that money and get high, while their children suffer.

Ben

If you're saying what I think you are, that's how we help people. can't take it off our taxes, but it gives you a great feeling when you help those that can't help themselves.
I really think we are doing Gods work.

mechanic · « **Reply #99 on:** February 05, 2012, 12:27:13 PM »

Bugeye,

I have an older gentleman, a friend of 40 years, who lives on $640.00 a month SS. I send him a check to help with his medicines. Another friend, a widow in her late 60's, I help with food.

I pray if I need it later someone will benefit me. If not, it's ok, I'm laying up treasure somewhere other than the bank.

I do not give my money away without first knowing the situation however. I will not subsidize poor behaviour.

Ben

BUGEYE · « **Reply #100 on:** February 05, 2012, 02:11:55 PM »

Quote from: mechanic on February 05, 2012, 12:27:13 PM

Bugeye,

I have an older gentleman, a friend of 40 years, who lives on $640.00 a month SS. I send him a check to help with his medicines. Another friend, a widow in her late 60's, I help with food.

I pray if I need it later someone will benefit me. If not, it's ok, I'm laying up treasure somewhere other than the bank.

I do not give my money away without first knowing the situation however. I will not subsidize poor behaviour.

Ben

our help goes to strangers, but it don't matter, YOU are doing exactly what God wants everyone to do. you will be blessed for it.

rickt300 · « **Reply #101 on:** February 05, 2012, 05:54:32 PM »

Quote from: Dixie Dude on February 05, 2012, 04:51:13 AM

The welfare money, food stamps, and WIC are not the only thing a single mother gets. She can get either government housing, or section 8 housing. They can also qualify for utility payments. This adds up to about $1,500 a month or more in the real world. Minimum wage only gets you about $1,200 a month. So it doesn't pay to work, but stay home and have babies and maybe get high every now and then on a few drugs. They also trade food stamps for either money or something else sometimes. I work for a utility, so I know that some bills are paid by the welfare departments. In poor neighborhoods, 85% of the bills go to women, exact opposite of middle and upper class in which most go to men. Reason, welfare, food stamps, WIC, section 8 housing, medicaid, utility bills paid, and housing. So the money can be spent on a car, bling-bling jewels, or anything else. When utility service people have to go to one of the section 8 homes with the bill listed under a woman's name, there is almost always a man living there. The welfare sytsem is the new welfare plantation. They are never free to move up in the world by being dependants. In 1960 13% of the American people were listed as under the poverty line. Today it is about 15/% or more. $3-4 trillion dollars in the last 40 years and no improvement. If it doesn't work go back to what did. State welfare agencys, not federal, commodities for food, not food stamps, allow chruches and family to help out. They can make them straighten up and live right and get off the welfare plantation.

That may be true in some other state, and there is government housing here available by waiting list (long time) I wouldn't let a bad dog live there and any dog is out of the question anyway. Make them straighten up and live right? When you are flat broke and have a kid to take care of, no one to watch the child while you work or look for work what do you think should be done? Maybe we should take a look at why these people are stuck in their circumstances. America is a great country and our citizens should not be forced to live on the streets or be kept like rats. Rather than put another weight on these peoples shoulders why not recreate America as a land of opportunity, bring this country back to a constitutional republic, stop precedent law in it's tracks and stand up for every American citizen no matter how poor or afflicted with addiction. Welfare is nothing more than a way to keep people under the thumb of politicians that want them to vote for socialism. We have allowed politicians to demonize those that make choices we won't and have allowed our bigotry to help them reduce the Constitution of this country to a piece of paper. It means nothing if you won't stand up for it. I am amazed at the obvious bigotry and underlying cowardice presented to me by others in this forum.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #102 on:** February 05, 2012, 06:09:47 PM »

I donno, after reading through this whole thing, which is about drug testing for Welfare Recipiants, I gotta wonder why all the discussion about drug testing in the work place..red herring perhaps?

Irrespective of all that....If I were in such dire straights as to need to apply for welfare (Lord forbid

) I would have absolutely no problem with peeing in a cup to qualify for it! Degrading? Is that what some of you think? Seriously why the objection? I mean if one has gotten to that point anyway, what's the big deal about cup of pee in exchange for help?

Casull · « **Reply #103 on:** February 05, 2012, 06:30:31 PM »

Quote

Rather than put another weight on these peoples shoulders

Exactly which "weight" is that? The peeing in the cup or the not doing drugs?

BTW, if I can pick up an extra $500 or $600 a month for peeing in a cup every once in awhile, sign me up.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #104 on:** February 06, 2012, 01:54:15 AM »

just call it health care screening or affirmative health care . Not drug testing ! Surely none here would want to allow drug use illegal or otherwise with out monitoring to protect the user/patient from side effects ................

Heather · « **Reply #105 on:** February 06, 2012, 09:00:08 AM »

I guess Texas is a little different than here in Alabama, but after researching all of the benefits offered here I realize that I PERSONALLY would MAKE more money on welfare than I do by working. We built the house we live in, so we pay no rent, BUT if I was to sign up for Section 8 assistance they would pay me $300 'rent' allowance. The food stamp program would pay me and my 3 boys a nice sum of almost $700 a month for food. Wic would give us fresh fruit, milk, cheese, cereal, juice, and fresh vegetables so that I wouldn't even have to use the $700 a month food budget on the essentials, all of that could go to meat, sodas, and junk food. Also there is a thing called AFDC that would pay me $112 per child per month.

Now let's do some math. Say I work 40hrs a week for minimum wage and gross $300 a week or $1200 a month. Subtract taxes from that and I might net $225 a week or $1000 a month.

Now say I sit at home and let the government take care of me and my three boys. $300 a month rent allowance, $700 a month food stamps, $100 a month wic. $336 a month AFDC, AND if I need it there is a place that will pay your power and gas bill up to 6 times a year if you qualify for any of the above mentioned programs. I do not think it is Government ran though so we will not figure that into this. Ok so Grand Total of Govt. Assistance is...$1436.

To sum it up, if you have kids here in Alabama and are not on Government Assistance, you are either extremely stupid for working when you could be getting it for free, or was raised with a work ethic and the attitude that you don't take a dime if you ain't earned it. It is almost like the Government WANTS you to be on welfare and under complete control of the Government!

BUGEYE · « **Reply #106 on:** February 06, 2012, 09:31:34 AM »

Quote from: Casull on February 05, 2012, 06:30:31 PM

Quote
Rather than put another weight on these peoples shoulders

Exactly which "weight" is that? The peeing in the cup or the not doing drugs?

BTW, if I can pick up an extra $500 or $600 a month for peeing in a cup every once in awhile, sign me up.

DDZ · « **Reply #107 on:** February 06, 2012, 10:36:57 AM »

Quote from: Heather on February 06, 2012, 09:00:08 AM

It is almost like the Government WANTS you to be on welfare and under complete control of the Government!

Exactly!!! That is just what it is.

Used to be also that one was ashamed to accept aid from the public treasury. Now its seen as an entitlement.

ironglow · « **Reply #108 on:** February 07, 2012, 06:29:50 AM »

Quote from: Heather on February 06, 2012, 09:00:08 AM

I guess Texas is a little different than here in Alabama, but after researching all of the benefits offered here I realize that I PERSONALLY would MAKE more money on welfare than I do by working. We built the house we live in, so we pay no rent, BUT if I was to sign up for Section 8 assistance they would pay me $300 'rent' allowance. The food stamp program would pay me and my 3 boys a nice sum of almost $700 a month for food. Wic would give us fresh fruit, milk, cheese, cereal, juice, and fresh vegetables so that I wouldn't even have to use the $700 a month food budget on the essentials, all of that could go to meat, sodas, and junk food. Also there is a thing called AFDC that would pay me $112 per child per month.

Now let's do some math. Say I work 40hrs a week for minimum wage and gross $300 a week or $1200 a month. Subtract taxes from that and I might net $225 a week or $1000 a month.

Now say I sit at home and let the government take care of me and my three boys. $300 a month rent allowance, $700 a month food stamps, $100 a month wic. $336 a month AFDC, AND if I need it there is a place that will pay your power and gas bill up to 6 times a year if you qualify for any of the above mentioned programs. I do not think it is Government ran though so we will not figure that into this. Ok so Grand Total of Govt. Assistance is...$1436.

To sum it up, if you have kids here in Alabama and are not on Government Assistance, you are either extremely stupid for working when you could be getting it for free, or was raised with a work ethic and the attitude that you don't take a dime if you ain't earned it. It is almost like the Government WANTS you to be on welfare and under complete control of the Government!

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Heather;
I highlighted the words extremely stupid ... in your post, because many people deserve that title for myriad reasons.. There are some "single mothers" who have 6-8-10 children..most with different names..now that in itself is STUPID..do they know what childbirth is a result of ? I heard recently of a case worker interviewing a 'single mom' and noticed she had a half dozen kids, which included a set of twins. Noticing on the paper work that the kids had different last names..she asked the mom, " do any of your children share the same father ?" Mom answers.." I think the twins do !" Now that's stupid..IMO..

Just this morning..coffee with a fine Italian friend.. Rosario says he was talking with a local single mom..she was crying about how she and her three kids have no food in the refrigerato r(Rosario is known as a "soft touch")..welfare doesn't give her enough money. She is saying this between puffs on a brand name cigarette..
I know of this woman, she smokes cigarettes regularly and other things also, I understand. Now, at nearly $90 per carton, if she smokes 11 packs per week.. that is about $400.00 alone, might buy her kids some groceries ! Now that's stupid !

...And the People's Republik of NY is about to raise the taxes on cigs even more:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/22/nyregion/22budget.html

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #109 on:** February 07, 2012, 07:28:36 AM »

one might say collecting wealfare to not work is in a way working for the govt. and testing for employment is ok right ?

DDZ · « **Reply #110 on:** February 07, 2012, 10:04:22 AM »

Someone might have mentioned it before, but every elected person should have to pass a drug test before they are sworn into office, because there are a good many of them that just don't seem right. Not going to convince me that some of them are not drug abusers.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #111 on:** February 07, 2012, 10:08:17 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 07, 2012, 07:28:36 AM

one might say collecting wealfare to not work is in a way working for the govt. and testing for employment is ok right ?

Since I work for the government, and am subject to drug testing, I recallow as how I could agree with that

powderman · « **Reply #112 on:** February 07, 2012, 11:52:36 AM »

HEATHER. Great post. POWDERMAN.