Author Topic: adjustable sights for pistol & Semi-autos has left me in a bit of confusion. (Read 2916 times)

williamlayton · « **on:** January 31, 2012, 01:07:00 AM »

This thing on adjustable sights for pistol & Semi-autos has left me in a bit of confusion.
Not if it is for target practice or bullseye--but for the original purpose of the weapon of choice.
At what range--for the intended purpose--is an adjustable sight necessary. Old ones which had no rear sight at all seemed to work for the purpose.
Blessings

mechanic · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2012, 01:09:59 AM »

William,

I've always maintained that one should learn to instinct shoot with a self defense handgun. The sights are irrelevant to me withing short distance. I can't half see them anyway.

If a fella' can't take a gun and hit a 4" bullseye at 25' instictively, he needs to burn some ammo.

JMO

Ben

Flash · « **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2012, 01:46:02 AM »

Willie, It's my opinion that all handgun sights should be adjustable. Back in the day, before handguns were capable of extreme accuracy and the knowledge of what made them so, fixed sights were fine. Even with a personal defense gun, an adjustable rear sight can give a shooter more latitude to use his or her gun for something else and not have to practice so much to do it. Adjustable sights would have never came to be without a need or desire for them and for what they provide, they are well worth having. I know there are purists out there who like fixed sight handguns but there are equal numbers who don't.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2012, 01:48:19 AM »

biggest advantage to ajustable sights is it allows alot more flexibilily in loads. Differnt power levels, bullet weights ect and still with the ability to hit to the sights poa. they also hold a small advantage in sight picture but that has more to do with sight selection as ive shot fixed sighted guns i though were great and adj sighted guns i thought were terrible. biggest adavantage to a fixed sighted gun is once you get it regulated to the load your using it stays regulated even if you drop the gun ect. Unless you bend the sight blade its going to shoot where its regulated to every time. Ive got a box full of smith and ruger ajustable sight parts. they do break. Its also a bit easier to carry a fixed sighted gun consealed. take a pocket carry gun. Youd never want sights on something like that and even a iwb gun can be uncomforable with ajust sights and they can snag on clothing. I have a bunch of both styles and they each have there place but id have to say that my favorite guns are probably guns like the ruger vaqueros. there rugged relialble and just plain get the job done.

Brett · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2012, 02:13:26 AM »

Quote from: mechanic on January 31, 2012, 01:09:59 AM

William,

I've always maintained that one should learn to instinct shoot with a self defense handgun. The sights are irrelevant to me withing short distance. I can't half see them anyway.

If a fella' can't take a gun and hit a 4" bullseye at 25' instictively, he needs to burn some ammo.

JMO

Ben

I'm with Ben on the subject of SDWs and sites. You should at the very least be able to hit the kill zone at 25' sans sites. If you have more room (time) than that you should be running away from the danger.

Ask an experienced LEO who has survived a gun fight if he remembers even seeing his sites during the gun fight.

Flash · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2012, 03:18:01 AM »

Quote from: Brett on January 31, 2012, 02:13:26 AM

Quote from: mechanic on January 31, 2012, 01:09:59 AM
William,

I've always maintained that one should learn to instinct shoot with a self defense handgun. The sights are irrelevant to me withing short distance. I can't half see them anyway.

If a fella' can't take a gun and hit a 4" bullseye at 25' instictively, he needs to burn some ammo.

JMO

Ben

I'm with Ben on the subject of SDWs and sites. You should at the very least be able to hit the kill zone at 25' sans sites. If you have more room (time) than that you should be running away from the danger.

Ask an experienced LEO who has survived a gun fight if he remembers even seeing his sites during the gun fight.

Why do they carry guns with adjustable sights?

Brett · « **Reply #6 on:** January 31, 2012, 04:05:43 AM »

Quote from: Flash on January 31, 2012, 03:18:01 AM

Quote from: Brett on January 31, 2012, 02:13:26 AM
Quote from: mechanic on January 31, 2012, 01:09:59 AM
William,

I've always maintained that one should learn to instinct shoot with a self defense handgun. The sights are irrelevant to me withing short distance. I can't half see them anyway.

If a fella' can't take a gun and hit a 4" bullseye at 25' instictively, he needs to burn some ammo.

JMO

Ben

I'm with Ben on the subject of SDWs and sites. You should at the very least be able to hit the kill zone at 25' sans sites. If you have more room (time) than that you should be running away from the danger.

Ask an experienced LEO who has survived a gun fight if he remembers even seeing his sites during the gun fight.

Why do they carry guns with adjustable sights?

I'm not aware of any agency that issues guns with adjustable sites. Please enlighten me if you know of any that do.

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #7 on:** January 31, 2012, 04:19:28 AM »

Ask an experienced LEO who has survived a gun fight if he remembers even seeing his sites during the gun fight.

I've a little bit of experience as a LEO and as an advanced firearms instructor for for the state I worked in. Those officers who emptied their sidearm most often did not remember seeing the sights, nor much of anything else. Those LEOs that fired 1 - 3 shots and ended the gunfight/miscreants anti-social behavior always remembered seeing the front sight. Whether they see the front sight or not is a matter of training and mindset. I always saw the front sight.

Larry Gibson

BTW; lots of LE agencies issue service sidearmes with adjustable sights on them.

Flash · « **Reply #8 on:** January 31, 2012, 05:29:51 AM »

Quote from: Brett on January 31, 2012, 04:05:43 AM

Quote from: Flash on January 31, 2012, 03:18:01 AM
Quote from: Brett on January 31, 2012, 02:13:26 AM
Quote from: mechanic on January 31, 2012, 01:09:59 AM
William,

I've always maintained that one should learn to instinct shoot with a self defense handgun. The sights are irrelevant to me withing short distance. I can't half see them anyway.

If a fella' can't take a gun and hit a 4" bullseye at 25' instictively, he needs to burn some ammo.

JMO

Ben

I'm with Ben on the subject of SDWs and sites. You should at the very least be able to hit the kill zone at 25' sans sites. If you have more room (time) than that you should be running away from the danger.

Ask an experienced LEO who has survived a gun fight if he remembers even seeing his sites during the gun fight.

Why do they carry guns with adjustable sights?

I'm not aware of any agency that issues guns with adjustable sites. Please enlighten me if you know of any that do.

Oh gosh, The Ruger P series was a huge LEO issue. While in the Bahamas, their officers even had them. Glocks are now pretty common and even they have drift adjustable sights. Sigs, S&Ws, Berettas.....drift ajustable.
I'm not aware of an agency that doesn't

jhm · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2012, 05:40:18 AM »

If given the choice I will take a firearm with Adj. sights If for no other reason resale, I have both carry both and can use both, really not a issue with me. Jim

jimster · « **Reply #10 on:** January 31, 2012, 05:40:54 AM »

Nothing wrong with a handgun that can fill two rolls, close in shooting without the sights, and long distance with the same handgun using the sights if it's needed. Hard to beat adjustable sights on any gun. If you do get a fixed sight handgun that just happens to shoot to POA with your most used and favorite ammo, don't ever sell it, you won't likely find another one.

painted horse · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2012, 05:53:29 AM »

Lloyd hit the nail squarely. The ability to adjust different loads to point of aim. How many posts have you read where a new SAA owner complains about his new gun shoots to the left and high or low??? Maybe for quick acquisition, self defence, 10 to 30 feet, fixed might be better or at least as good but for the average shooter, hunter, or target shooting, adjustable sights are better. Remember Colt didn't come out with adjustable sights on the SAA until 1890 (the Colt New Frontier, best looking SAA ever) as a target model. If it had been sooner I'm bettin thats what most would have carried.... I've sold off all my old model Vaqueros and replaced them with adjustable sighted BH and BBH and am actually starting to hit things out to 50 yards rather consistantly. I'm a believer.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2012, 05:59:25 AM »

Hunting arms can benefit from adjustables different game requiring different loads as well as range use.

A defensive pistol should get sighted in with non adjustable sights pick a load and have the sights installed that will give the desired poi.

Hitting a squirrel and hitting a man are two entirely different ball games. If you are going to specifically tailor a weapon to each usage then do it correctly. There are very robust adjustable sights suited to defensive use, but why go to the extra work and expense to install something that has the greater potential to fail?

If you are playing games with your guns it really does not matter a whit, use whatever makes you happiest.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2012, 08:49:54 AM »

i agree with some of the others here. Ajustable sights have no place on a self defense gun.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #14 on:** January 31, 2012, 09:39:40 AM »

Depends on the sights really . If they are snag free and made to take abuse then they could have a place , very few fit this order. Other than at the range one could say adj sights are not needed. A hunting gun could be zeroed with load selection so even there adj sights aren't really needed. A personal defense gun some say don't need adj sights and I would agree most of the time that is best as there is less to break. I would say at what most consider SD range load really won't matter as it will be short range.
But what if you travel outdoors alot for work or play. Suppose you go to several states . Suppose you have to pick up ammo different from you regular load and you find yourself in a situation where longer shots are being made ?
What if you find yourself in a crowd and need to shoot to survive but need to miss innocent folks ?
Folks got by with fixed sights for years but good adj sights can be a good also.
I would suggest one pick what they believe they need , who would have thunk optics would have become common on battle rifles

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2012, 09:52:34 AM »

Not too long ago Dad who is 74 went shopping in my gun safe for a CCW hand gun.
I handed out handgun after handgun starting with what I thought would be easy for him to shoot, He is not a handgun guy. He handed them back one after the other saying he could not see the sights.
The adjustable sights were easier for him to see. As they are larger and usually have something of a contrast outlines, dots, what have you.

Flash · « **Reply #16 on:** January 31, 2012, 11:50:16 AM »

I think many are forming their opinion on the "Correct Load" for the weapon when in fact, not everyone reloads or chooses to have one load for each gun of the same caliber. I've got revolvers and semi's,chambered in both 45 ACP and 9x19. A load for each one of them would be ridiculous, considering it would take thirteen different ones. Gimmie my adjustables.

tacklebury · « **Reply #17 on:** January 31, 2012, 11:53:43 AM »

Other than snubbies I won't own a handgun without adjustable sights. Being a reloader, as stated above, I don't intend to be limited in making loads due to sight limitations.

williamlayton · « **Reply #18 on:** January 31, 2012, 12:15:24 PM »

I have found my true calling.

Good replys. I will stick to steady fire at the mass.
I look at the sights and chase the hole a lot in my practice. At my age I have found that steady fire is more successful than trying to aim and squeeze--for the purpose of self defense.
I guess if I was honest that was just the way I was taught and have done it a long time.
Again--I am not talking bullseye of bench rest kind of shooting--which I really don't enjoy.
What I really miss about the old days, is being able to kick cans or interesting targets---walking the woodds and shooting at pine knots and armidillos'.
Blessings

mechanic · « **Reply #19 on:** January 31, 2012, 03:08:50 PM »

Now William, you've stirred the pot, don't back out now!

Ben

williamlayton · « **Reply #20 on:** January 31, 2012, 11:09:32 PM »

Did it pretty good to---if'n I say so myownself.
Heck--what is a little flaming amongst friends--good for the digestion.
Blessings

Savage · « **Reply #21 on:** February 01, 2012, 06:51:10 AM »

An adjustable sight might be impractical under certain conditions, although hard to imagine how. Some adjustable sights are quite rugged. I have guns both with & without. I'm not a bullseye shooter, but rarely are fixed sights precise enough for me. Most fixed sights are regulated for a standard loading for that caliber. My reloads don't often duplicate that loading. Adjustable sights make sense to me.
Savage

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #22 on:** February 01, 2012, 07:26:33 AM »

I carry in my pocket , in a pocket holster. I have never seen adjustable sights that would allow a smooth draw and still be large enough to be useful to my eyes anyway on a J frame size gun. I have dropped one Ruger Redhawk and the sight blade was broken on impact. There are adjustable sights that would have most likely held up if they were installed on the RH.
So in both of these cases adj sights were not the best choice IMHO. But I have seen several that would have been well recived for their intended use.

Brett · « **Reply #23 on:** February 02, 2012, 07:03:53 AM »

Quote from: Flash on January 31, 2012, 05:29:51 AM

Quote from: Brett on January 31, 2012, 04:05:43 AM
Quote from: Flash on January 31, 2012, 03:18:01 AM
Quote from: Brett on January 31, 2012, 02:13:26 AM
Quote from: mechanic on January 31, 2012, 01:09:59 AM
William,

I've always maintained that one should learn to instinct shoot with a self defense handgun. The sights are irrelevant to me withing short distance. I can't half see them anyway.

If a fella' can't take a gun and hit a 4" bullseye at 25' instictively, he needs to burn some ammo.

JMO

Ben

I'm with Ben on the subject of SDWs and sites. You should at the very least be able to hit the kill zone at 25' sans sites. If you have more room (time) than that you should be running away from the danger.

Ask an experienced LEO who has survived a gun fight if he remembers even seeing his sites during the gun fight.

Why do they carry guns with adjustable sights?

I'm not aware of any agency that issues guns with adjustable sites. Please enlighten me if you know of any that do.

Oh gosh, The Ruger P series was a huge LEO issue. While in the Bahamas, their officers even had them. Glocks are now pretty common and even they have drift adjustable sights. Sigs, S&Ws, Berettas.....drift ajustable.
I'm not aware of an agency that doesn't

When I think of adjustable sites I think of target type sites where you turn screws, etc to adjust for both windage and elevation not drift adjustable sites. I don't know of any modern full sized service pistol that does not have a drift adjustable rear site.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** February 02, 2012, 08:38:41 AM »

also replacable front sights with different height options.

tacklebury · « **Reply #25 on:** February 02, 2012, 04:24:26 PM »

There are many without drift adjustment. Here's one example. Being phased out now finally... If you always shoot std. lead loads, these work, get into other things, not so much...
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/910/products_id/411545791

Brett · « **Reply #26 on:** February 03, 2012, 03:09:22 AM »

Quote from: tacklebury on February 02, 2012, 04:24:26 PM

There are many without drift adjustment. Here's one example. Being phased out now finally... If you always shoot std. lead loads, these work, get into other things, not so much...
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/910/products_id/411545791

I was referring to current duty pistols not revolvers from the past. I don't believe that there is a current full sized duty pistol which does not have a drift adjustable rear site and in many cases an easily changed front site.

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #27 on:** February 03, 2012, 10:28:46 AM »

I just wish the manufacturers would put a front sight on somewhere in thickness between the current ones you get and what they used 80-100 years ago. I personally can't hit wotrh a damn when the front site is wide that the target I'm shooting at. The finer the site the better I shoot. Even with my poor vision I can see a sight 1/2 the width of what they are now.

bilmac · « **Reply #28 on:** February 03, 2012, 12:08:27 PM »

Yup close in shooting I don't see the sights I can point the gun that good. So if I don't need sights to shoot across the room why not have good sights that will adjust so that I have a chance to hit an elbow sticking out from behind a tree at 20 yards. I can't see what harm it is to have sights that serve some useful purpose.

Every gun I have ever shot with fixed sights shot low except one a J frame 32. That one I still have, some other fool has all the others.

williamlayton · « **Reply #29 on:** February 04, 2012, 04:14:44 AM »

Even with fixed sights, if one gets to know the sight, it can be shot quickly and accurately.
Blessings