Author Topic: National Debt (Read 1176 times)

mcbammer · « **on:** January 31, 2012, 05:37:33 AM »

As of yesterday the U.S. owes 15 trillion plus, A infant born today owes 48.ooo $ their part. Ive always paid my bills but I have a problem with this one!

lakota · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2012, 06:15:42 AM »

I didnt have a hand in racking up the debt so my "share" calculates out to about exactly $0.00. I think that all politicians past and present who ran this tab up should be made to pay it down out of their own pockets. If the politician is dead then his estate should be held accountable for his or her share.

mcbammer · « **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2012, 10:22:54 AM »

Quote from: lakota on January 31, 2012, 06:15:42 AM

I didnt have a hand in racking up the debt so my "share" calculates out to about exactly $0.00. I think that all politicians past and present who ran this tab up should be made to pay it down out of their own pockets. If the politician is dead then his estate should be held accountable for his or her share.

If the politicians do anything, they would probable make themselves tax exempt. Im on your side but the government will get theirs one way or the other.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2012, 10:50:56 AM »

Quote from: lakota on January 31, 2012, 06:15:42 AM

I didnt have a hand in racking up the debt so my "share" calculates out to about exactly $0.00. I think that all politicians past and present who ran this tab up should be made to pay it down out of their own pockets. If the politician is dead then his estate should be held accountable for his or her share.

So....you don't use ANY type of government supplied infrastructure at all? That bottle of Coke just magically made to your hand without being shipped over roads, your loaf of bread too? The clothing you wear just popped into existance when you needed it? The home you live in was made with materials that were just lying round at the location it was built on?

Please tell me how you accomplish this miraculous feat!!!!

Sorry for the sarcasm, but let's face it we ALL have a stake in adding to our national debt in one way or another.

dukkillr · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2012, 11:18:22 AM »

Quote from: Cuts Crooked on January 31, 2012, 10:50:56 AM

Sorry for the sarcasm, but let's face it we ALL have a stake in adding to our national debt in one way or another.

Well said. Also note that a person claiming no responsibility could not have voted for any politician who invaded Iraq or Afghanistan. They must not drive or fly, and if they walk it cannot be on sidewalks or streets. They probably should only eat their own grown food since grain production in this country is heavily subsidized.

You're right, we do all share at least some responsibility. I'd consider it a good investment to pay mine off if the government would promise to never run a deficit again. Strangely, they have not offered me that choice. Much like I can't volunteer to take myself off the big-government retirement teet... Too much freedom you see... can't be trusted... Thank god such intelligent and reasonable people are making those important decisions for me...

lakota · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2012, 12:50:23 PM »

Give me a break your Holiness. If our idiot leaders weren't constantly sending money abroad there wouldn't be any debt for me to pay my share of. The last time I did an accounting I have used the services and infrastructure maintained by my tax dollars abroad exactly ZERO times. If our idiot leaders kept our money and our military home we wouldn't have an exorbitant debt to pay down and infrastructure here could be maintained by tax dollars collected without the D.C. brain trust borrowing more money from China "on my behalf"

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #6 on:** January 31, 2012, 01:04:06 PM »

Ah......you are changing the ground rules now and stating that this is about "tax dollars abroad" , as if that is the only source of national debt! Excellent job of grabbing a tactic from the liberal playbook! I applaud you sir!

Sorry, while I agree with you, we don't need to be spending our money "over there" and fighting other peoples wars, we still all have a share in the national debt...it isn't just what's "spent over there".. Still, we have an excellent candidate who wants to put a stop to that.........Ron Paul!

You have my blessings, my child!

Casull · « **Reply #7 on:** January 31, 2012, 01:20:45 PM »

Quote

So....you don't use ANY type of government supplied infrastructure at all? That bottle of Coke just magically made to your hand without being shipped over roads, your loaf of bread too? The clothing you wear just popped into existance when you needed it? The home you live in was made with materials that were just lying round at the location it was built on?

All of those items are taxed on their way to one's hand. Unless he stole that bottle of Coke, loaf of bread, etc., he paid for use of those roads when he paid for the items.

mcbammer · « **Reply #8 on:** January 31, 2012, 04:02:00 PM »

Electing a President is like buying a car , you dont know if you got a lemon till its too late. ole bubba clinton even balanced the budget. Then here comes G .Dubwa an he spends money like a drunk sailor on shore leave. Now we got one playing double or nothing and keeps losing. Ron Paul is adressing the problem but he is getting totally ignored in these debates and I blame the T.V. media for that. Newt & Romney are useing up air time slinging mud & R P is trying to address the issues.

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2012, 06:09:55 PM »

Quote from: Casull on January 31, 2012, 01:20:45 PM

All of those items are taxed on their way to one's hand. Unless he stole that bottle of Coke, loaf of bread, etc., he paid for use of those roads when he paid for the items.

Interesting point of reference!!!! So if you purchase things moved by that infrastructure, you shouldn't have to pay taxes for same? Yup! That's gonna fly smoooooth! Let me know how that works out when you file your tax returns based on that idea!

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #10 on:** February 01, 2012, 01:02:58 AM »

Quote from: mcbammer on January 31, 2012, 04:02:00 PM

Electing a President is like buying a car , you dont know if you got a lemon till its too late. ole bubba clinton even balanced the budget. Then here comes G .Dubwa an he spends money like a drunk sailor on shore leave. Now we got one playing double or nothing and keeps losing. Ron Paul is adressing the problem but he is getting totally ignored in these debates and I blame the T.V. media for that. Newt & Romney are useing up air time slinging mud & R P is trying to address the issues.

He's also been a step ahead of the other candidates on the capaign trail lol.

magooch · « **Reply #11 on:** February 01, 2012, 04:03:31 AM »

Quote from: mcbammer on January 31, 2012, 05:37:33 AM

As of yesterday the U.S. owes 15 trillion plus, A infant born today owes 48.ooo $ their part. Ive always paid my bills but I have a problem with this one!

I guess if there's any consolation in all of this, it is that none of us are infants. My question is, who are the dummies that are loaning all this money to our country? I hear reports that the fed is buying the debt. Does that mean the fed is about to lose it's butt along with China, or what?

BUGEYE · « **Reply #12 on:** February 01, 2012, 04:30:06 AM »

buying a tank of gas is helping to pay for those roads etc. but then the guvment takes those road taxes and gives them to the worthless instead of maintaining infrastructure.
I'm sure that Lakota pays his share and more.

crustylicious · « **Reply #13 on:** February 01, 2012, 04:36:37 AM »

If you're concerned about the national debt you should consider voting for the Democratic candidate. As you can see from the chart below they're the ones with the record of debt reduction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

lakota · « **Reply #14 on:** February 01, 2012, 05:24:12 AM »

Vote democrat to reduce the National debt? Give me a break! If you are REALLY CONCERNED about the National Debt then you should consider voting for a third party. The two mainstream parties have proven time and time again that they couldnt care less about reigning in spending and reducing debt. They just keep borrowing more and more and more and as soon as they have it in their corrupt little hands they blow it on worthless spending or foreign aid or fighting wars for countries who should be fighting their own wars.

jimster · « **Reply #15 on:** February 01, 2012, 06:08:09 AM »

LOL...where did that chart come from? haha

You just had a Dem president and a Dem congress rack up more debt all at once than anyone in history, and I can't for the life of me find that on this chart. It's laughable.
Now the republicans didn't help any I agree...but you have to be totally out of it to actually think that the Dem's would do anything but create debt, create more government jobs, and pretty much stifle the only way to pay the debt, which is the private sector. Not only that, but how is a republican president signing legislation that Dem's wrote...just a republican problem?...HA...so much for good info.

Dem's have controlled congress more than any other party over the past 60 years, and guess what, only THEY can spend money. So where is the chart on congressional spending? Whoops, can't show that one.

Spending legislation is congress, they write and pass it first.

Oh well...many governments have crashed using a chart such as this one...just goes to show you...figures can lie and liars can figure.

crustylicious · « **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2012, 06:31:09 AM »

Whoops, here ya go! Now instead of pining for the Regan years you can recalibrate and start wishing for the Clinton years!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

mcbammer · « **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2012, 08:55:12 AM »

Quote from: crustylicious on February 01, 2012, 04:36:37 AM

If you're concerned about the national debt you should consider voting for the Democratic candidate. As you can see from the chart below they're the ones with the record of debt reduction
I was young & dumb back in 1976 , I wasted my vote on Peanut Carter.. Aint going down that road again or better said bad road.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

BUGEYE · « **Reply #18 on:** February 01, 2012, 09:32:38 AM »

under clinton, both houses of congress were republican.

lakota · « **Reply #19 on:** February 01, 2012, 09:59:38 AM »

Now Bugeye dont distort this debate with pesky facts like that!

Gary G · « **Reply #20 on:** February 01, 2012, 03:05:26 PM »

Here in lies the problem. The debt is now too great to pay off. Our government sustains itself by borrowing and debasing the currency. How much longer will foreigners continue to make loans to us knowing that they will not get paid back? Then the Federal Reserve becomes the default purchaser of debt. You will wonder why everything costs so much up until the day you can't buy it.

That is the reason we need Ron Paul. He will cut the spending and eliminate the Federal reserve.

---------------------------------------------
The 14.3 trillion is the outstanding debt on the books. There is also several other trillion off the books.
The total debt that includes liabilities is not really known. I have seen estimates of 53 trillion to 140 trillion.
GDP is about 12 trillion which includes government spending, which is wasted spending from a productive standpoint.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #21 on:** February 02, 2012, 02:23:38 AM »

Quote from: lakota on February 01, 2012, 09:59:38 AM

Now Bugeye dont distort this debate with pesky facts like that!

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #22 on:** February 02, 2012, 03:16:54 AM »

Quote from: mcbammer on January 31, 2012, 04:02:00 PM

Electing a President is like buying a car , you dont know if you got a lemon till its too late. ole bubba clinton even balanced the budget. Then here comes G .Dubwa an he spends money like a drunk sailor on shore leave. Now we got one playing double or nothing and keeps losing. Ron Paul is adressing the problem but he is getting totally ignored in these debates and I blame the T.V. media for that. Newt & Romney are useing up air time slinging mud & R P is trying to address the issues.

Clinton only ballanced a budget because he was made to. A strong leader in Congress tied his hands and said you only have X amount, figure it out.
His first budget he spent Social Security twice. He believed his own lie about SS being a lock box and not in the general fund.
GW I agree went a little nuts. And we have heard that Obama said running the debt to 30K a person was un patriotic but jumping to 45K each is fine as long as he gets to fly in Air Force 1.

Ron Paul says the right things for domestic policy. His forgien policy will have the US and our allies attacked. His not closing the door on a third party scares me. If he runs as a third party Obama will win much like Clintoon won in his ellections.
Clinton never had a mandate. He won the white house with 40 to 45% of the vote. And why he was forced to the right. Had Clinton had his way we would have Clinton Care and not Obama care. But he ran the country by pole. If CNN pole said no, then he did not do it.
Obama is Clinton on steriods. And we need to vote him out. Even if it is the obama lite Romney. everytime a leftist Republican is run against a Liberal the Republican looses. Ford Lost, Bush 41 Lost, Dole lost, and McCain lost all because we were told they were the best chance of bringing the center to the party and for the most part conservitives stayed home. Some like me help their nose and voted for McCain hoping for a situation where he passed away in office so Sarah could take over and lead from the right.

Gary G · « **Reply #23 on:** February 02, 2012, 04:27:05 AM »

Clinton balanced the budget. It was widely acclaimed. Yet the national debt increased that same year. How is that? Government cooking the books as usual! Would anyone believe what they say?

Now we enter the end of the debt supercycle where the economy must deleverage. It is Adam Smith's invisible hand at work. They try all kinds of Keynesian remedies to prevent the inevitable and prop up the system as it suits them; "keep it going until I get out of office" is their plan. This is central planning which has always been a failure everywhere that it has been tried. All they do is to prolong the inevitable, much like Hoover and Roosevelt did, who gave us the Great Depression, only this time look for something worse than that. In those days, we didn't have so much of the population dependent on the government. In those days we still had somewhat of a gold standard which prevented much of their spending.

mcbammer · « **Reply #24 on:** February 02, 2012, 05:13:58 AM »

(mcwooduck)
I understand your concern on Ron P foreign policy . Fiscal policy trumps all issues for me . The fact is there is no perfect Presidential candidate. When you mention Congress ,thats where the problem lies. Running for president has become a beauty contest.I not extreme left or right , just stuck in the middle. When one owes a debt , they basically become a slave . I just see a lot of senseless waste ,which could could lead to our detriment.

Gary G · « **Reply #25 on:** February 02, 2012, 05:26:03 AM »

"Ron Paul says the right things for domestic policy. His forgien policy will have the US and our allies attacked".

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There is absolutely no proof of that. How long has it been since Switzerland was attacked?

In most cases, you leave people alone and they will leave you alone. Continuously poke them and they will poke back. Ron Paul speaks of a stronger national defense and less national offense.

SwampThing762 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 02, 2012, 05:34:17 AM »

Gary G,

The operative phrase "in most cases". We did not poke at Japan in 1941. We cut off supplying them with oil, but never poked at them. And, yet, they attacked us without provocation.

I do opine that we need to pull back our military from abroad, for now, until we can afford the maintenance of overseas bases. Obummer has spent us to $16 trillion dollars in the hole, a tie with all previous 43 Presidents combined. In the meantime, keep the Navy fully-funded.

ST762

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #27 on:** February 02, 2012, 01:18:47 PM »

Quote from: Gary G on February 02, 2012, 05:26:03 AM

"Ron Paul says the right things for domestic policy. His forgien policy will have the US and our allies attacked".

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There is absolutely no proof of that. How long has it been since Switzerland was attacked?

In most cases, you leave people alone and they will leave you alone. Continuously poke them and they will poke back. Ron Paul speaks of a stronger national defense and less national offense.

In a 1950 speach Truman forgot to say or skipped over South Korea in a Sphere of influence speach. The Chineese and the NKs thought this was saying that teh USA would not spend US blood or treasure to protect South Korea. We would not arm them as we thought Sigmond Re would attack the North. With in weeeks of the speach were were fighting in Korea. By Ron Paul saying he would not get involved in forgien wars and when asked about a response to 9/11 he said he would not have attacked Afganistan. This is the same as what Truman said and will embolden any enemy to attack us or our allies. Sorry History says I am correct. If a bully finds out a person is a quaker, and will not fight back he bullies harder.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #28 on:** February 03, 2012, 01:19:21 AM »

I'm with Ron Paul when he says return to the gold standard. but he also says there is no gold at fort knox or the fed.? if that's true, we will never recover.

gypsyman · « **Reply #29 on:** February 03, 2012, 01:46:28 AM »

I believe the national debt is above what is accumulated by tax's. If 100 million is collected, and 200 million is spent, we're 100 million in debt. No matter what we send/they collect, with this present administration,they will keep us in debt. That is their plan, period. To break the country. gypsyman