Author Topic: Tired of bullet casters that are equivelent to cheesy used car dealers. (Read 6134 times)

LAH · « **Reply #30 on:** February 05, 2012, 10:11:54 AM »

Blackhawker how soft you want your bullets? For reference the wheelweight alloy I'm casting with will test 13-14 BHN after a couple weeks. 50/50 wheelweight/range lead will go 11-12 BHN. The range lead I have tests 8-9 BHN.

Most companies are using 92/6/2 for their bullets. This will test 15 BHN or so unless water quenched, then if the water is cold they may go has high as 21 BHN. I used this alloy for years but always let it air cool. The reason all the big boys use this alloy is because you have to really try to cast a bad bullet with it. Simply put, it works as far as making well filled out & shinny bullets.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #31 on:** February 06, 2012, 09:01:27 AM »

Quote from: LAH on February 05, 2012, 10:11:54 AM

...you have to really try to cast a bad bullet with it. Simply put, it works as far as making well filled out & shinny bullets.

That may be their accurate description, but whether they perform as is necessary will be up to each shooter's equipment and the dynamics of their shooting regime.

Everyone is encouraged to download and read the book linked by GBO's Lloyd Smale at http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,247755.0.html . In it, the authors describe, in plain understandable words, the fundamentals of leading front to back, back to front, and side to side. Hard Cast bullets (BHN's over 16) are not the solution to the plethora of leading problems, which if misunderstood will lead to frustration.

LAH · « **Reply #32 on:** February 06, 2012, 11:48:09 AM »

Quote from: Land_Owner on February 06, 2012, 09:01:27 AM

Quote from: LAH on February 05, 2012, 10:11:54 AM
...you have to really try to cast a bad bullet with it. Simply put, it works as far as making well filled out & shinny bullets.

That may be their accurate description, but whether they perform as is necessary will be up to each shooter's equipment and the dynamics of their shooting regime.

Yes Sir that is a very accurate description. It's the industry standard for a reason. IMHO this alloy is not so much about shooting but is all about casting.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #33 on:** February 07, 2012, 10:11:48 AM »

the guy answering your post makes some of the finest bullets made and is another one that is not only a caster but actually shoots cast bullets and knows what hes talking about.

Quote from: Land_Owner on February 06, 2012, 09:01:27 AM

Quote from: LAH on February 05, 2012, 10:11:54 AM
...you have to really try to cast a bad bullet with it. Simply put, it works as far as making well filled out & shinny bullets.

That may be their accurate description, but whether they perform as is necessary will be up to each shooter's equipment and the dynamics of their shooting regime.

Everyone is encouraged to download and read the book linked by GBO's Lloyd Smale at http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,247755.0.html . In it, the authors describe, in plain understandable words, the fundamentals of leading front to back, back to front, and side to side. Hard Cast bullets (BHN's over 16) are not the solution to the plethora of leading problems, which if misunderstood will lead to frustration.

Flash · « **Reply #34 on:** February 07, 2012, 11:52:26 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on January 31, 2012, 06:44:47 PM

These days most commercial casters for some reason use alloy that is way too hard for any normal purpose. I was looking over all the folks on the thread here about them and did notice one that offered some of their styles in reasonable alloy and you might talk them into casting others from it. I do not recall which one it was.

I recently placed fairly large orders with three companies.

1. Leadheads. I had some of their Lyman 429421 Keith bullets from the first H&R PD shoot we had years ago and they looked good and shot good as well so I placed a large order with them. I was VERY disappointed in the quality of the bullets. Almost all have very noticeable wrinkles and voids and perhaps only 25% had all the lube on them that I assume they started with. Quite honestly after looking over what I got from them I don't think they will be getting anymore of my money. Maybe but not likely. I got 1000 RCBS-270-SAA bullets from them and requested sizing at .452". I got them sized at .454" and they will not chamber in my Ruger BH 45 Colt. Since I have so many of them I'll trim 100 cases just short enough to chamber but those I have loaded I must size down to fit or pull them. Grrr. They also charged me $40 to ship the order. It would have fit in a large flat rate USPS box both weight and size wise.

2. Magnus in Tony, AL. I've used Magnus bullets off and on for a lot of years and have always been happy with them. The ones I got in this order were no exception. Shipping was fast and bullets look good and shoot good. Shipping was free. I normally buy my Magnus bullets from GBO Sponsor Midsouth Shooter's Supply but there were two I wasn't sure of I wanted to get smaller quantities of than Midsouth carries so I ordered direct. Now that I know I like them I can buy larger quantities from Midsouth.

3. Western Bullet Co. I'm still waiting on them so cannot comment on the quality of them yet. When I got my credit card statement I found they had charged my card and 40 days (yeah 40 that's no typo) later I had heard nothing from them. I sent an e-mail explaining that I own this site and was planning to do a review of their bullets along with those in the orders above but now I wasn't so sure they'd be included. I also told them that if I didn't get a ship date soon I'd deny the charges and have my credit card company refund my money. I let them know I'd let you guys know about this and now have.

So if you like their bullet styles I can definitely recommend Magnus bullets. Sadly they don't make a very wide selection of flat base bullets most are bevel base but they do a good job and ship quickly in my experience. Yeah they use alloy too dang hard for the job.

I have all the equipment and can and have done a lot of casting of my own bullets. I like to shoot my own bullets as I can control the quality of them. BUT I really do hate casting bullets so these days I mostly shoot bullets cast by someone else. I'm happy with Magnus bullets and they are not that expensive so I might not start back to casting and just use their bullets.

I'd still like a quality source for the RCBS-45-270-SAA bullet and will likely be looking for someone else besides Leadheads that casts them. If not I might just cast them myself or just do like I should and make me some LBT bullets. Did I mention I hate casting bullets?

I've done business with Western before and although they won't win a speedy shipping contest, their bullets are fine. I ordered 1,000 of a 25-20 plain based design and it took them a month.

LAH · « **Reply #35 on:** February 07, 2012, 01:01:46 PM »

Quote from: Flash on February 07, 2012, 11:52:26 AM

Quote from: Graybeard on January 31, 2012, 06:44:47 PM
These days most commercial casters for some reason use alloy that is way too hard for any normal purpose. I was looking over all the folks on the thread here about them and did notice one that offered some of their styles in reasonable alloy and you might talk them into casting others from it. I do not recall which one it was.

I recently placed fairly large orders with three companies.

1. Leadheads. I had some of their Lyman 429421 Keith bullets from the first H&R PD shoot we had years ago and they looked good and shot good as well so I placed a large order with them. I was VERY disappointed in the quality of the bullets. Almost all have very noticeable wrinkles and voids and perhaps only 25% had all the lube on them that I assume they started with. Quite honestly after looking over what I got from them I don't think they will be getting anymore of my money. Maybe but not likely. I got 1000 RCBS-270-SAA bullets from them and requested sizing at .452". I got them sized at .454" and they will not chamber in my Ruger BH 45 Colt. Since I have so many of them I'll trim 100 cases just short enough to chamber but those I have loaded I must size down to fit or pull them. Grrr. They also charged me $40 to ship the order. It would have fit in a large flat rate USPS box both weight and size wise.

2. Magnus in Tony, AL. I've used Magnus bullets off and on for a lot of years and have always been happy with them. The ones I got in this order were no exception. Shipping was fast and bullets look good and shoot good. Shipping was free. I normally buy my Magnus bullets from GBO Sponsor Midsouth Shooter's Supply but there were two I wasn't sure of I wanted to get smaller quantities of than Midsouth carries so I ordered direct. Now that I know I like them I can buy larger quantities from Midsouth.

3. Western Bullet Co. I'm still waiting on them so cannot comment on the quality of them yet. When I got my credit card statement I found they had charged my card and 40 days (yeah 40 that's no typo) later I had heard nothing from them. I sent an e-mail explaining that I own this site and was planning to do a review of their bullets along with those in the orders above but now I wasn't so sure they'd be included. I also told them that if I didn't get a ship date soon I'd deny the charges and have my credit card company refund my money. I let them know I'd let you guys know about this and now have.

So if you like their bullet styles I can definitely recommend Magnus bullets. Sadly they don't make a very wide selection of flat base bullets most are bevel base but they do a good job and ship quickly in my experience. Yeah they use alloy too dang hard for the job.

I have all the equipment and can and have done a lot of casting of my own bullets. I like to shoot my own bullets as I can control the quality of them. BUT I really do hate casting bullets so these days I mostly shoot bullets cast by someone else. I'm happy with Magnus bullets and they are not that expensive so I might not start back to casting and just use their bullets.

I'd still like a quality source for the RCBS-45-270-SAA bullet and will likely be looking for someone else besides Leadheads that casts them. If not I might just cast them myself or just do like I should and make me some LBT bullets. Did I mention I hate casting bullets?

I've done business with Western before and although they won't win a speedy shipping contest, their bullets are fine. I ordered 1,000 of a 25-20 plain based design and it took them a month.

Now that's a bullet you don't see in many catalogs.

Blackhawker · « **Reply #36 on:** March 09, 2012, 12:54:55 AM »

Sorry I haven't answered some of you guys back and I kinda let the thread run dry.
LAH, you had asked how soft I would want my bullets. Well, as with shooting 45 ACP vs shooing a hot loaded 45 Colt, one would expect or want the bullets for the low pressure 45 auto to be relatively soft in order to avoid leading etc. I would say that the 45 auto bullets should be around 9 to 12 while the 45 Colt bullets might need to be ranging around 16 to 20.

As a note, I'm still waiting on my order to be completed. I placed my order in the last week of December. I've recieved most of my order about two weeks ago but since the time I placed the order I have not yet recieved any e-mails or any other information about my order. I've written to the caster at least 8 times if not more and have not heard anything back. ZERO communication. Heck, people communicate more here on the classifieds over a 20 to 30 dollar transaction for some brass or other things. One would think that a major purchase from a major caster that there would be some correspondance.

I'll keep you all posted on the status of my order and IF it is ever fulfilled in it's entirety. Right now, I think it's a shame that someone selling a product cannot even communicate with his or her customers when he or she has a consideralble amount of their money that has been entrusted to them.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #37 on:** March 10, 2012, 12:46:06 AM »

ive shot some of my best groups with 1911s using straight linotype. As a matter of fact i cast out of ww for practice bullets and when i shoot comp its usually with linotype bullets or at least a 5050 mix of lino and ww. Soft bullets to bump up being needed to get accuracy and prevent leading is nothing but a bandaid to try to fix a gun that has an artery bleading. It comes from the days of colt and others making guns that had chambers and barrels way out of spec. Take a gun that was built right with a good barrel and ive yet to see one that shot softer bullets better then hard.
think about what your asking of that bullet. Your taking a nicely shaped lfn or swc and bumping it up into a blob of lead. No doubt its not bumping up exactly the same each time. You wouldnt take your 308 out with match grade bullets and expect it to shoot well if you took a hammer to the bullets before you loaded them. If your getting leading in your gun with hard bullets theres something wrong with that gun that should be fixed as even if it shoots better with soft its certainly not shoot as well as it could with everything right.

Blackhawker · « **Reply #38 on:** April 03, 2012, 06:14:39 AM »

Lloyd, I've given some thought and some reading time to this info and the info you've posted or referred to about cast bullets. All good stuff. Thanks.

To be honest, I've never had leading in my 45 Auto but thus far, the only cast bullets I've used in it were at roughly a hardness of 11. I've never had any real leading problems with any of my Blackhawks either so I suppose I've either been using the right bullets or my cylinder throats are just right. I've measured them and all seems to be OK with respect to cylinder throats. Even my 38-40 Blackhawk has correct cylinder throats and those are supposed to be notorious for under sizing.

Really, the only leading problem I've ever had have been in my 38-55 single shot rifles when using plain based bullets. In these cases, it seems that bullet hardness seems to be the main factor in the leading. I've also noted (now that I've read through that article more thoroughly) that some of the bullets that caused leading have very skimpy lube grooves. Perhaps that might be additive to the problem. For the time being, I'm going to try to stick with gas checked bullets for those rifles...which is why I've been attempting to order from the two suppliers in which I've been having issues with. But now it appears that I need to extend my search elsewhere. I'll write back a little later (when I have some extra time) with a final report of how my bullet order went. While I got my order, it was quite a mess getting it.

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on March 10, 2012, 12:46:06 AM

ive shot some of my best groups with 1911s using straight linotype. As a matter of fact i cast out of ww for practice bullets and when i shoot comp its usually with linotype bullets or at least a 5050 mix of lino and ww. Soft bullets to bump up being needed to get accuracy and prevent leading is nothing but a bandaid to try to fix a gun that has an artery bleading. It comes from the days of colt and others making guns that had chambers and barrels way out of spec. Take a gun that was built right with a good barrel and ive yet to see one that shot softer bullets better then hard.
think about what your asking of that bullet. Your taking a nicely shaped lfn or swc and bumping it up into a blob of lead. No doubt its not bumping up exactly the same each time. You wouldnt take your 308 out with match grade bullets and expect it to shoot well if you took a hammer to the bullets before you loaded them. If your getting leading in your gun with hard bullets theres something wrong with that gun that should be fixed as even if it shoots better with soft its certainly not shoot as well as it could with everything right.

Screwbolts · « **Reply #39 on:** April 05, 2012, 02:19:00 AM »

Quote from: smokehouserex on February 02, 2012, 10:36:17 AM

Hey Fellows:

I thought in Roman Numerials that M = 1000. That is where the M came from, am I wrong???LOL
HM

Yes smokehouserex, "M" is indeed the Roman Numeral for the quantity of 1000, and you are NOT wrong. I knew exactly what you meant. This used to be taught in school in the USA.
_ _
"M" For others of the confused, if the "M" has a line over it, the opposite of underlined it then represents 1,000,000 or what we refer to as million. I have tried to do the over line here, I hope it shows that way.

Long live the Cast Boolit

God Bless America!
Ken

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #40 on:** April 05, 2012, 03:13:17 AM »

I have had good luck with Leadhead bullets , After orderins a couple boxes the owner called to make sure I liked them. I use them to target shoot and they work well for that.

CherokeeT · « **Reply #41 on:** April 09, 2012, 06:12:15 AM »

Penn Bullets has always given me good serivce and does cast some bullets in softer alloys. http://www.pennbullets.com/

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #42 on:** April 09, 2012, 10:21:01 AM »

I tend to agree that most companies make them too hard. I believe some make the same mistake with their lube. The produce them that way because they cast easy, transport with little or no damage and the lube stays put in transport and isn't messy. Since most of what I shoot are plinking loads those "hard" bullets leaded my guns terribly and often still had most of the lube still in the grooves of the recovered bullets. Add a beveled base to that and I had nothing but trouble. Thats when I started casting my own. I use 50/50 wheel weight/pure lead for my plinkers, WW for my heavy loads and lino for my magnum loads and have no leading issues.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #43 on:** April 11, 2012, 07:05:12 AM »

I find my 50/50 lead/WW bullets [air-cooled BHN 9-12 (+/-)] "evaporate" on impact against used hardened steel plow discs that ring ever so nicely when struck giving the shooter a visual and an auditory satisfaction.

Sorry for thread hijack Blackhawker...

Blackhawker · « **Reply #44 on:** April 12, 2012, 06:11:31 AM »

Not a problem. Any info here on cast bullets is good. It helps me and others find what they are looking for if they don't cast their own.
I still have to get to my final story about my last order. You guys just won't believe it. I just haven't had the time to spend here lately. It's been a bit busy to say the least.

By the way Land Owner, what calibers are you shooting at those discs? I thought that fairly high velocity bullets tend to go through them, but maybe I'm wrong.

Quote from: Land_Owner on April 11, 2012, 07:05:12 AM

I find my 50/50 lead/WW bullets [air-cooled BHN 9-12 (+/-)] "evaporate" on impact against used hardened steel plow discs that ring ever so nicely when struck giving the shooter a visual and an auditory satisfaction.

Sorry for thread hijack Blackhawker...

Land_Owner · « **Reply #45 on:** April 12, 2012, 10:24:39 AM »

Each of the following has been shot into the plow discs without punch through, I would even say without denting, but I am not sure about that last as the 22 Mag is TOUGH!

Pistols
22 LR
22 Magnum
380 ACP
9mm
38 Special
357 Magnum
40 Smith & Wesson
45 ACP
45 Colt

Handi-Rifles
357 Magnum
45 Buffalo Classic

I am reloading with IMR "Hi-Skor' 700X powder to the Mfg's maximum listing (except 22's, 9mm, and 40 S&W are all Factory) .

Blackhawker · « **Reply #46 on:** April 13, 2012, 11:06:27 AM »

OK, here is my final story on one particular caster:

I ordered my bullets on December 31st of 2011. I was urged to order soon and before the end of the year by the caster as he said his prices would go up with the start of the new year, hence why I placed an order on new year's eve. As I had mentioned before, I had tried to contact the caster many times to check on my order. When I placed the order, I was told that all of the items on my order were on hand and I'd see them in a matter of about six or seven days. I got my order on Feb 24th...MOST of the order, anyway. The box was about 70lbs and when I opened the cardboard box, I found a wooden, nailed shut crate on the inside with a note stating something of the nature that this was part I or two parts of my order. Additionally, it stated that my original order fell apart in transit and dumped bullets all over the back of a truck and possibly all over the highway. The note stated that it was a big mistake to pack 70lbs of bullets in a cardboard box. So, this was the reason for the delay in my order. What I don't understand is why, when I inquired about my order, why couldn't he have told me this and that there was going to be a delay?? I wouldn't have minded that. What is a problem to me is when I hear NOTHING.
There were about 200 or 300 bullets missing in this order. I waited for a week or so before I began to inquire about the remaining bullets. I sent a message one week, then another. Finally, I sent a message every day until I heard that they were in transit on the day of my last message. Again, no communication until I "hounded" him. In the end, I got the final part of my order on March 20th, almost three months from my placing the order and nearly a month after the first part of the order.

I have a friend that has ordered bullets from this same caster and he has yet to see his order. He ordered his bullets about three days after I placed my order. After inquiring about his order in early March, here is the reply he received:

"Hmmm. My records here show it as being shipped, but since it goes by Priority Mail we can't track progress or delivery. However, if it hasnt gotten there by now and it hasnt been returned to us the only thing I can figure is the box came apart under the stress of all that weight and scattered bullets all along the back of a postal van somewhere. It isnt a big deal to drop another box in the mail...all of those bullets are on hand except the XXXXX, and those will be ready late next week. I'll go see if my post office folks got any plastic bags of returned damaged freight with my name on it and in the meantime I'll put together a box to go out next week."

This was March 9th when he received that message and has still not seen his order.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #47 on:** April 14, 2012, 02:05:23 AM »

Your acceptance of the damaged order created additional stress on you. Patience with a reputable caster, one that communicates, in most instances will achieve a satisfactory outcome. In the future, consider letting the transporter and the caster figure out their own problems, apparently starting with the caster not packaging correctly. Those two should "duke it out". Refuse to take delivery of damaged goods. Get a refund if necessary and go elsewhere if the caster and transporter can't get it right.

You were waiting to take advantage in the first place of the pricing that induced you to purchase as well as the caster's reputation for bullets that meet your needs. It is your money and your time (probably the more valuable is your time). Once your money transferred, you have the expectation of delivery of undamaged goods in a timely manner. Failing either of these expectations, you have the right to a renewed opinion of the caster.

Considerations for small business, which can also have bad days, is a customer's perogative. You are willing to offer consideration, bend but don't break, when the two-way communication is provided that assures you the small business is trying to accomplish their part of the deal. Failing the part about two-way communication when the limit of acceptable or agreed time has passed is where the deal breaks down.

As you said, you would have been willing to work with the caster, provided they just talked to you. The "sterile", one-sided, indeterminate environment without communication speaks volumes about that small business. They need to work on their business model and people skills.

Blackhawker · « **Reply #48 on:** April 15, 2012, 04:05:43 PM »

Quote from: Land_Owner on April 14, 2012, 02:05:23 AM

Your acceptance of the damaged order created additional stress on you. Patience with a reputable caster, one that communicates, in most instances will achieve a satisfactory outcome. In the future, consider letting the transporter and the caster figure out their own problems, apparently starting with the caster not packaging correctly. Those two should "duke it out". Refuse to take delivery of damaged goods. Get a refund if necessary and go elsewhere if the caster and transporter can't get it right.

I would not have accepted the package had I had the chance to do so. What I recieved was a notice in my mailbox that I needed to pick up and sign for the box at the post office. When I arrived and signed for it, the box itself was in perfect condition. It wasn't until I got home and opened the box that I found the note stating that my order was incomplete. Had I known that the order was short BEFORE signing for the package, I would have refused the package and called my credit card company and demanded the refund through them and let the credit card company and the small business guy battle it out. Ironically, I had to use this threat tactic on him in order to get my final part of my order delivered to me. It only took one day for him to reply and get my second part of my order in the mail after I had threatened to call the credit card company. It seems to me he's run in to this problem before with perhaps a previous customer.

My guess is that this guy casts bullets for the locals and for gun shows. I have a feeling that shipping is not his thing. When it comes to shipping and keeping records of such, he seems very disorganized. His bullets, on the other hand, are a very fair price and a very decent quality. If I lived up his way, I'd probably just drop by the store now and then and buy what he has on hand. However, I will NEVER order from him again and I'll be sure to give the same advice to others.

4given · « **Reply #49 on:** May 02, 2012, 09:27:26 AM »

I have recieved good bullets and great service from Magnus. I highly recommend them.

t-reg · « **Reply #50 on:** June 24, 2012, 05:54:11 AM »

Quote from: 4given on May 02, 2012, 09:27:26 AM

I have recieved good bullets and great service from Magnus. I highly recommend them.

+1

Quote from: LAH on February 05, 2012, 10:11:54 AM

The reason all the big boys use this alloy is because you have to really try to cast a bad bullet with it. Simply put, it works as far as making well filled out & shinny bullets.

And they can throw them in a bag and ship them all over the country without "excessive" deformation.