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Author Topic: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?  (Read 1209 times)

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Offline krod47nw

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hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« on: February 01, 2012, 12:30:43 PM »
The title pretty well sums it up.  I was loading some 45/70s and came across a few hornady that are std length ( not the shorter ones) but have small primer pockets.  Is this a new thing like the 45acp with small primers? 
 
I also would like to know waht you guys are doing with the short hornady brass?  Are you loading them at the same COL as the std brass?
 
Thanks,
Kevin
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Offline Swampman

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2012, 01:08:09 PM »
I wish I could find 20 .45-70 cases with small primer pockets.
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Offline tacklebury

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2012, 04:38:51 PM »
I have a couple boxes worth of the short Hornady brass.  Really don't like it much.  I do use them for some really long lead bullets, but have to load em carefully and cannot get a good crimp.  Just have to use taper in bullet seater.
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Tacklebury --}>>>>>    Multi-Barrel: .223 Superlite, 7mm-08 22", .30-40 Krag M158, .357 Maximum 16-1/4 HB, .45 Colt, .45-70 22" irons, 32" .45-70 Peeps, 12 Ga. 3-1/2 w/ Chokes, .410 Smooth slugger, .45 Cal Muzzy, .50 Cal Muzzy, .58 Cal Muzzy

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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2012, 10:21:17 AM »
Quote
what to do with leverevolution brass?

Use the forums "Pay it ofrward" and GET RID OF IT!!!
 
CW
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Offline GH1

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2012, 01:03:55 PM »
  The LeverEvolution brass can be reloaded, but you'll have to use a Hornady Seat/Crimp die. RCBS dies will not work, nor will a Lee Factory Crimp Die. I don't know about Lee Seat dies.
  The RCBS die can probably be shortened to work but I'm not too sure about the Lee FCD. I shortened mine about .100" and it will crimp, but it gave me a taper crimp that didn't work very well with my crimp groove equipped cast bullets. It might work OK on jacketed slugs.
  As far as load data goes, it shouldn't be an issue, just start low and work it up like any other round.
  I seat my bullets at the normal depth so my OAL is quite a bit shorter than spec. It's not an issue in my Handi Rifle, but you might have a problem if you use a levergun, I don't know.
Another alternative would be to by Hornady FTX bullets, which are longer, or maybe shoot a 500 gr cast round. The extra weight might give you the length you need.
GH1 :)
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Offline Swampman

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2012, 01:22:05 PM »
In a single shot, you don't need a crimp.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline JeffG

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution bra
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2012, 01:38:45 PM »
I feel the 45/70 relies on a lineal ignition, much like a shotgun shell.  The igniton works best with a large, hot flash. Using a smaller primer, and the possibility for a powder charge laying down in the cartridge case, you are only asking for trouble.(detonation?) As much as I use Hornady products, I don't understand this "developement".  Get rid of the stuff. MHO
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Offline Swampman

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2012, 01:58:43 PM »
Detonation is a myth.....
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline cwlongshot

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2012, 02:25:13 PM »
Quote from: Swampman on February 02, 2012, 01:58:43 PM
Detonation is a myth.....

OH boy.... Stir that pot Swamp...

One myth I am sure of is that you know of what you speak... ::)


CW
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Offline bilmac

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2012, 02:31:37 PM »
And swampy never wastes any words either.  I type with two fingers but I got more words than swampy.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2012, 02:32:34 PM »
The Remington 405s can be crimped in the cannelure using the short brass.  If you have some brass with small rifle primer pockets, I'd love to have it.  I don't think Hornady ever made any.  Garrett (Starline actually) did make brass like that to use in their heavy recoiling loads to prevent chain reaction explosions in the magazine tubes of the 1895 when using a wide metplat bullet.
 
Detonation is a myth.....created by folks who aren't willing to admit they double charged a case.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline goodconcretecolor

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2012, 06:06:05 AM »
Double charging typically occurs with fast powders. 4350 is often referenced as the fastest powder prone to detonation and it is a fairly slow powder. Double charges of powders that slow would be easily detected as many would over flow the case. Light charges of slow powders in "overbore" cartridges together with very, very bad luck, are the recipe for detonation.
I believe detonation is a small version of a dust explosion occuring inside a cartridge where the blast of the primer suspends the light charge of slow powder throughout the volume of the case while the deterant coating of a slow powder delays the ignition. If the ignition occurs at just the right instant of maximum dispersion, more of the surface area is exposed causing the grains of powder to ignite simultaneously over their entire surface rather than progressivly as intended. Hangfires occur when then delay in ignition is a bit longer. Slow powders depend on a proper degree of confinement to ignite properly. Leaving them room to "rattle around" (low load density) is a bad idea.
This theory is based on professional training and engineering experience with dust explosion suppression systems plus 25 years of reloading experience.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2012, 07:10:51 AM »
I just don't believe it can happen in a cartridge.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline goodconcretecolor

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2012, 01:09:09 PM »
It has never been replicated in a ballistics laboratory. A big argument a gainst it. Though the theory includes why it is difficult to replicate. Until it is, it is the stuff of these discussions. If they do replicate it some day, it would spoil some of the fun.
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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2012, 01:37:25 PM »
The only thing I use Leverevolution brass for is round ball loads. Otherwise I'd throw them away.
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Offline Swampman

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2012, 01:47:21 PM »
Hornady does sell the LE bullets and powder.  I don't care for LE ammo myself but some folks like it.
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"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline sr sawyer

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2012, 05:06:46 PM »
If you are using the Hornady 325 gr. FTX bullets with the Hornady brass will it not crimp as supposed to?   I am aware of the negatives of using short brass but if you do not crimp with a low pressure round as with the 45-70 what is the big deal.
 
To answer the OP question I fully intend to load the short brass to standard OAL as long as I am not crimping (this is where the opposition arises to the short brass) but is of no concern if you have no desire to crimp.  With short brass after a period of time you can get a carbon deposit in the chamber just ahead of the shorter case but this is nothing a good cleaning will not cure (similar to shooting 38 special in a 357 mag or 44 special in a 44 mag)
 
With brass at an all time high price I would figure everyone would be trying to find ways to use it instead of discarding :o
 
Ken
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Offline krod47nw

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2012, 07:10:40 PM »
Quote from: sr sawyer on February 03, 2012, 05:06:46 PM
If you are using the Hornady 325 gr. FTX bullets with the Hornady brass will it not crimp as supposed to?   I am aware of the negatives of using short brass but if you do not crimp with a low pressure round as with the 45-70 what is the big deal.
 
To answer the OP question I fully intend to load the short brass to standard OAL as long as I am not crimping (this is where the opposition arises to the short brass) but is of no concern if you have no desire to crimp.  With short brass after a period of time you can get a carbon deposit in the chamber just ahead of the shorter case but this is nothing a good cleaning will not cure (similar to shooting 38 special in a 357 mag or 44 special in a 44 mag)
 
With brass at an all time high price I would figure everyone would be trying to find ways to use it instead of discarding :o
 
Ken

 
 
This is the direction I was intending to go with it.  I hate to get rid of good brass.
 
Kevin
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Offline krod47nw

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Re: hornady 45/70 brass w/small primers??? & what to do with leverevolution brass?
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2012, 07:15:25 PM »
To amend my original post.  After another look, the brass with the small primers is not hornady (as Swampman suspected ;) )  It was mixed in with a pile of hornady.  It is labeled "45-70 MAG Lever Gun"  there were only 2 pcs and one was split.  After looking it up online it seems it is a buffalo bore offering.
 
Kevin
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