Author Topic: When and why did rifles become illegal for deer hunting?  (Read 1774 times)

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Offline ropadop

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When and why did rifles become illegal for deer hunting?
« on: February 04, 2012, 08:14:04 AM »
I know many states have outlawed the use of rifles for deer hunting.  I am curious when and why these laws were enacted.  If you have knowledge of the history of these laws in a particular state, I would appreciate a history lesson.  Thanks!
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Offline Wyo. Coyote Hunter

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Re: When and why did rifles become illegal for deer hunting?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2012, 09:56:19 AM »
 ;) Looking back at history, it seems from what I have heard and read, those laws were enacted with out much common sense...Example, In Iowa shotguns only, across the river, in Neb. it used to be illegal to shoot deer with a shotgun... :-\  This may have changed now..In Pa. I visited with a very old hunter in the 1960's...He was well over 80 then..he told me when he was young they hunted deer with dogs and 10 ga. shotguns and buckshot...both were illegal by the early 1900's...Pa. did some reseach on this..they found pretty much what I have related to you...infact some of this is theirs..they also found rifles were safer in more level country than shotguns...(why, I am not certain)...so  it seems like the law makers did what they wanted to with out much serious thought ...times haven't changed much.... ;) :-[ :-\

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: When and why did rifles become illegal for deer hunting?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2012, 11:33:09 AM »
I can't quote any specifics. Range of effective fire is one reason, and closely related is range of errant bullets. As the country filled up the game decreased and hunting became more about the sport and less about the meat. " DNR" could only afford to lose X number of animals while Y number of folks wanted to hunt. Rifles afforded a greater percentage of success than shotguns, restrict the rifles and open greater opportunity afield for hunters.


Though recent studies and ammo development has changed the debate, shotguns have reduced ranges and are considered safer around population centers. Muzzleloaders tend to get the same treatment.


From a management standpoint, the game is driven by number of hunter days afield, and a sustainable yield of game animals. You want to optimize the field days without impacting the breeding population left at season end. Reducing the effectiveness of weapons allows more hunters to go afield.


 If you can afford to kill 1000 deer you issue about 800 tags perhaps. Why you ask? Because not every dead deer is recovered, but is none the less dead. How many hunters can you make happy with a 50% success ratio for riflemen? 1600. Shotgunners with a 30% success? 2660. Archers with 12% ? 6600. Now you can see some of the reasoning behind the liberal primative seasons and the promotion thereof.


Hunter density in the woods themselves are another reason for the reduced range shotguns appeal. Easier to ID the target when you know good and well your weapon has a effective range of only 75 yards vs. 300 yards.


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Offline chefjeff

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Re: When and why did rifles become illegal for deer hunting?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2012, 02:23:21 PM »
Look at the states that have this law,then look at their politics....should be able to draw some conclusions of your own.....

Offline LanceR

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Re: When and why did rifles become illegal for deer hunting?
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2012, 03:05:38 AM »
I suspect that every state had a unique set of considerations but that the thinking behind the shotgun only decision.  I also think that what the agricultural states did was pretty consistent given that they all tended to have the same lack of forest lands and very low herd numbers when the shotgun only decisions were made.. 

In New york where for many years rifles were legal in the Adirondacks and Catskills but not in most of the rest of the state the decision had to do with hunter population density, open rural terrain and the size of the deer herd but was focused on deer survival far more than on safety.  They knew that a lot more folks per square mile would be hunting in the agricultural "Southern Zone" areas than in the more heavily wooded and less populated mountainous areas.  Smooth bore shotguns with the Foster slugs that were the then state of the art in single projectile deer loads were so much less capable than rifles that they were mandated in much of the state to ensure that a deer breeding population survived at a high enough level to enable both herd survival and increase.

Like many other states, New York forest lands were often clear cut whether in agricultural areas or not.  The Great Depression and WWII caused a lot of folks to leave marginal or worn out farm land and in New York millions of acres of that abandoned land became state forests and parks.  New York, like some other states, now has more than twice the forest acreage than it did in 1900.  The deer population is so much larger today that while the total deer take in1900 was 4,800, in the early 1940s was still below 20,000 it now runs around 200,00 per year.  For several recent years it was near or over 300,000. 

As the deer herd increased seasons and harvest limits were expanded.  New season were added.  New implements were added and newer technological advances were incorporated.  In all "shotgun only" areas you can use rifled shotguns (an oxymoron if ever there was one) and can use pistols-including those chambered for rifle cartridges, bows-stick, recurve and compound bows and muzzleloading firearms including in-line ignition, scope, smokeless powder rifle etc.  Last season was the first season in which crossbows were added in much of the state although in a limited fashion.

Despite all these changes there has been a continued increase of the deer herd and large areas once closed to rifles have been converted to areas where rifles are legal.  That is happening on a county by county basis and the new wrinkle is the increasing parcelization of rural areas and the attendant perception of it being a safety issue.

In shotgun only areas that allow the variety of implements that New York does or that allow rifled shotguns or in-line muzzleloading rifles at all you really cannot make an argument that rifles are somehow less safe than shotguns or other currently legal implements.  In fact, I think that when facts are used in a discussion it is pretty hard to argue that smooth bore shotguns are somehow more safe than rifles in the conditions under which we actually hunt.

Lance

Offline hunt-m-up

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Re: When and why did rifles become illegal for deer hunting?
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2012, 07:13:47 AM »
30+ years ago there were more farmsteads and fewer deer in some of the areas where these regulations were imposed. That situation has reversed for the most part. Shotguns were considered short-range tools with foster slugs and bird barrels and they shed velocity fast. The regulations were supposed to reflect the terrain and population density. For example, The eastern 1/4 of Nebraska might resemble Iowa, but that's about it. Which is more dangerous at 300 yards is debatable, shotgun slugs tend to skip when they hit frozen ground but most rifle rounds would deform or fragment. There are quite a few stories of people being hit with shotguns slugs that either didn't penetrate or left flesh wounds because they had either bounced or shed most of their velocity. Politics weren't the same when many of these laws were enacted.
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Offline Buckskin

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Re: When and why did rifles become illegal for deer hunting?
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2012, 07:34:24 AM »
I think it was mostly based on reducing the effectiveness of the hunter.  For example in Wisconsin in the La Crosse area it used to be shotgun only the first 2 days -buck or doe, then it was opened to rifle for the remaining 7 days, but buck only.
 
Where I live, in SE Wisconsin, it was always shotgun only.  After we were declared to be in the CWD buffer zone and wanted to kill as many deer as physically possible the DNR opened it up to rifle.  Yet in other similarily populated areas around the state without the eradication mentality it is still shotgun.
 
I have shot 4 good bucks since the weapon law changed (4 years ago) one was about 60 yards and the other 3 were all over 300 yards, so I'm very glad for the change...
Buckskin

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Offline Land_Owner

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Re: When and why did rifles become illegal for deer hunting?
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2012, 11:01:04 AM »
One man's opinion without the research:  too many Goobers afield, in too little area, over too short a span of time, making shotguns intrinsically more "safe" due to shorter range, and I really like EQ's $$'s based remarks:

Quote
How many hunters can you make happy with a 50% success ratio for riflemen? 1600. Shotgunners with a 30% success? 2660. Archers with 12% ? 6600.

and his management remarks ending in:

Quote
Reducing the effectiveness of weapons allows more hunters to go afield.

Offline jhm

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Re: When and why did rifles become illegal for deer hunting?
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2012, 06:13:31 AM »
     I believe it boils down to SAFETY kill ratios I doint believe had anything to do with it, in the more crouded areas it was a concern.   Jim

Offline Buckskin

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Re: When and why did rifles become illegal for deer hunting?
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2012, 07:34:43 AM »
     I believe it boils down to SAFETY kill ratios I doint believe had anything to do with it, in the more crouded areas it was a concern.   Jim

Maybe in some areas, but not most.  There are rural places in several States that are shotgun only.  As I posted before, I live in SE Wisconsin and some areas (not mine) it is very populated.  It was shotgun only all my life until 4 years ago when they wanted to try and keep CWD from entering our area and wanted to increase the kill, so they now allow rifles.  So if was all about safety, Wisconsin said the hell with safety we want more dead deer.
 
There have been several studies done that say that rifles are no more dangerous than slug guns.  Here is an interesting one.
 
http://www.ihea.com/_assets/documents/AFWA_Presentation_9-18-07.pdf
Buckskin

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Offline atitagain

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Re: When and why did rifles become illegal for deer hunting?
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2012, 12:59:52 PM »
   I believe in most areas, you will find it has a lot to with population density.
When I lived in Michigan for instance, the Southern portion of the state is shotgun only. But the Northern portion, you can use rifles. The only thing that divides the two sections? A highway.
So, one guy lives on the South side of the road and has to use a shotgun, but if he walks across the road to the North, he can break out the high powered rifle.
   States with large open areas, such as the Western states with huge forests open flat lands as far as the eye can see, generally allow rifles. Or the ares with primarily open hilly and mountainous areas still allow rifles.
So I believe it is mostly based on the density of populations in particular hunting areas.

My 2 cents worth anyway.
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'cause it only takes one shot.

Offline ihookem

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Re: When and why did rifles become illegal for deer hunting?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2012, 03:05:59 PM »
In most cases the law makes no sense especially these days of 200 yd muzzleloaders, sabots in shotguns and handguns are allowed in shotgun areas. Never mind a handgun can be a 300 Win now days. Also, a 12 ga. slug is 365 gr., if it hits a rock there is 365 gr of lead going everywhere. A 270 has about 1/3 the lead flying. I see no reason to shoot shotguns now days and Wisconsin is slowly doing away with shotgun only area without more  accidents.

Offline LanceR

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Re: When and why did rifles become illegal for deer hunting?
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2012, 02:25:17 AM »
Fact trumps opinion.  Here's an interesting read.  You can either wade into it or just look at the conclusions and recommendations.  It seems to be the first ever scientific study to determine if shotguns are always safer than rifles for deer hunting.

http://lbfc.legis.state.pa.us/factsheets/2007/rifle_shotgun_webpost.pdf

Here in New York counties are changing from "shotgun only" to rifle areas at a rate of 2-3 a yer without issues.

Lance