Author Topic: 45/120 needed? (Read 2668 times)

briarpatch · « **on:** February 05, 2012, 06:39:51 PM »

Other than the cool factor do you guys that have the 45/120 feel you would be better off with something less. 45/70, 45/100 ect.

shot1 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 06, 2012, 02:12:20 AM »

I myself don't have a 45-120 but know some who HAD THEM. Notice I said HAD THEM. Too much of everything, cost of everything from cases to dies, powder, RECOIL. They got rid of their 45-120s and got 45-70s. With a 500 to 550 gr bullet and a case full of FFG or Cartridge black powder in the average 28 to 32" barrel will keep you just under the speed of sound which makes things more accurate out to 1000 yards. Some use 45-90s with the really heavy slugs to push them right up to the speed of sound for 1000 yard shooting.

For you information the 45-120 never was a Sharps cartridge. The 45-110 (2 7/8" case) was the largest the Sharps Rifle Company ever made. The 45-120 cartridge came out after the Sharps Rifle Company had gone out of business.

The pounding you take from a 45-120 from 115 grs FG black powder with a 500 gr bullet to get 1400 fps just does not make since. When you can shoot the same slug with 61 to 64 grs FFG or Cartridge black powder for 1200 fps and really be more accurate out to 1000 yards. As far as hunting goes don't think like people do when using high velocity rounds with jacketed expanding bullets. These big cast slug shooters kill by knocking a caliber size hole clean through what ever they hit from any direction. The US Army chose the 45-70-500 in 1873 because it would shoot though 6" pine logs and go a couple feet into the sand on the other side at 1000 yards. Everything for the 45-70 is much cheaper and much more ready available than for the 45-120.

Yellowhouse · « **Reply #2 on:** February 06, 2012, 06:38:15 AM »

+ 1 on what Shot1 said! For near all shooting including the biggest game animals in North America go no further than the 45-90. FWIW the biggest 45, the 45 2 7/8 was almost always loaded with 120 grains of powder during the buffalo years.

The 45-70 would be my choice although my last Shiloh is a 44-77. The only caliber I can think of that would make less sense than the 45/120 would be the 50/140.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #3 on:** February 06, 2012, 08:46:55 AM »

Quote from: Yellowhouse on February 06, 2012, 06:38:15 AM

The only caliber I can think of that would make less sense than the 45/120 would be the 50/140.

Well, $:-\$ I never claimed to have much sense...

Oh Tim! BBeans is working on sumpin, he won't tell me what, but it is 50 caliber!

And I got that set of 50-140 dies and a nice long donor barrel. What was the name of the guy who does our reboring now?

OH! OH! LongTom!You still figgerin on a 50-140 project? I'm hopin on finishing restocking my 45-120 before I start on mine. Sometimes it's a real pain bein cool...

quickdtoo · « **Reply #4 on:** February 06, 2012, 08:53:04 AM »

Jesse Ocumpaugh does rebores at very reasonable cost, I'm still considering the 50-140 for my extra 45-70 BC barrel.

Tim

http://www.35caliber.com/8.html

http://www.35caliber.com/2.html

briarpatch · « **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2012, 10:03:25 AM »

Quicktoo, they may have a old battleship mothballed cheap since they are cutting back on the military.The guns are a little small at 16 inch but you could work your way up from there.

. I have not heard form Tykempster in a while he may have tried to fire a 50/140 and not been able to post.

What about the 499 hubble you would not have to rebore. Just use the 500 smith barrel?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2012, 11:27:21 AM »

Yup, the 499 Hubel Express would be a great rechamber for the 500S&W Handi, might just do that one too since I have one and a couple hundred custom .500" bullets that a fella sent me.

Tim

Quote from Ed:

http://ammoguide.com/?catid=749

Quote

I have my 499HE in a NEF. Sometimes you develop a cartridge just for a certain bunch of guns, those being all the underwhelming 500 S&W's out there in NEFs. As well as shops always have these bullets in supply, much more than other big bore bullets. So I had a long case here that I made years ago as a long .510" cal, and I change the shape a little to fit all of the .500" cal bullets out there.

Moderate loads easy on brass, in that I didn't have to full length resize the case, only top 1/4 of case that expanded a little. are 325gr at 2600, 500gr at 2150. In my NEF I can get both weight bullets 300 fps faster, still extract very easy. With higher velocities they resize easy. I got reamer to lenghten chambers . Just run it in NEF 500 chamber and you got a 5000 ft lbs plus economical gun. Clear up to 5800 plus ft lbs. And it does it at 50-60% of the pressure than original case in the NEF.

Ed Hubel

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?topic=207451.msg1099093182#msg1099093182

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,206882.msg1099088012.html#msg1099088012

briarpatch · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2012, 12:34:23 PM »

That 499 is a good looking tool. I can just imagine after firing it somebody would come by and say...... Well look at that, somebody scattered their clothes all over this big ole burned over spot.

mauserand9mm · « **Reply #8 on:** February 07, 2012, 04:13:04 PM »

Well, if it didn't have to be blackpowder and long range wasn't really required then how about a 458WM?
You could load this down using cast projectiles that would keep the cost down as well as do well for hunting. I suspect dies and brass are much cheaper for the 458 than the 45/120 also.
I've posted before but I have two good reduced cast loads for my 458: 405gn at 1000fps with Trailboss and 500gn at 1600fps with a fast rifle powder (without filler). The recoil from the 500gn feels equivalent to a light rifle in 308. Would be keen to see how it shoots at long range - probably disappointing though.

AtlLaw · « **Reply #9 on:** February 08, 2012, 02:26:17 AM »

Quote from: mauserand9mm on February 07, 2012, 04:13:04 PM

... how about a 458WM? You could load this down using cast projectiles that would keep the cost down as well as do well for hunting. ...

I dunno, Tim might could clear it up, but I don't think the Handi and the 458 WM are a good match. $:-\$ For full power loads anyway. And loaded down, why bother when the 45-70 is available.

Sides, I think, as if anyone cares what I think, the 45-120 in a Handi can do anything the 458WM can do!

Probably more!

Well, you probably couldn't get it to work through a mauser action... $:-\$ but other then that...!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #10 on:** February 08, 2012, 05:26:57 AM »

Action length would prolly be an issue for the 45-120, otherwise the 458WM would do whatcha want.

Tim

bikerbeans · « **Reply #11 on:** February 10, 2012, 03:33:05 PM »

Quote from: briarpatch on February 05, 2012, 06:39:51 PM

Other than the cool factor do you guys that have the 45/120 feel you would be better off with something less. 45/70, 45/100 ect.

If you are shooting BP then what the other posters said regarding the 45-120 is good advice. If on the other hand you have a modern action and are loading with smokeless and jacketed bullets the 45-120 is a lot of fun to play with. I have a 32" barrel 45-120 and it will launch 300 to 350 grain jacketed bullets at greater than 2,600 FPS. This gun is quite fun at the range but no real hunting application for me as I ain't totin' no 11# gun around the woods. I think my 45-120 really shines when my wife is slowly chipping away at clay pidgeons on the berm at 100 yards with her M4. I break out the "elephant gun" (her name for it not mine) and start blowing up 3 to 4 pidgeons per shot. To try and answer your question is it needed, well to paraphrase a former president, "what to you mean by need"? It all depends on what you "need" (or want) your rifle to do.

BB

BB

bikerbeans · « **Reply #12 on:** February 10, 2012, 03:34:37 PM »

Quote from: AtlLaw on February 06, 2012, 08:46:55 AM

Quote from: Yellowhouse on February 06, 2012, 06:38:15 AM
The only caliber I can think of that would make less sense than the 45/120 would be the 50/140.

Well, $:-\$ I never claimed to have much sense...

Oh Tim! BBeans is working on sumpin, he won't tell me what, but it is 50 caliber! And I got that set of 50-140 dies and a nice long donor barrel. What was the name of the guy who does our reboring now?

OH! OH! LongTom!You still figgerin on a 50-140 project? I'm hopin on finishing restocking my 45-120 before I start on mine. Sometimes it's a real pain bein cool...

AtlLaw,

Got distracted, working on a new 44 cal rifle now. Maybe a 50 cal down the road a bit.

BB

LONGTOM · « **Reply #13 on:** February 10, 2012, 05:58:28 PM »

I too, have a 45-120 but have not worked with it yet.
Hope to have it up & running this year.
I am a little different than the rest of you.
What I am after is a 45 cal BP gun that will shoot the 300-350 gr JHP at about the same speed or a tad faster then a factory smokeless 45-70.
I don't need bigger bullets nor do I need more speed but I do want the BP smoke & thrill and figured I could get all of that from a 120 with BP.

As for the 50 cal, yes, I still intend to do one of some sorts.
The .499 had caught my interest but I want a barrel longer than the 500 S&W so a barrel rebore is in order, about $250.00.
Add to that the setup cost for dies & especially brass ($5.00 @) kind of put the brakes on that.
I have some 50-90 & 50-100 brass already so that would be the cheaper way to go and may be what I do.
Then again, I also have a super nice old Win model 1886 take down in 45-70 that would love a matching barrel in 50-something!!!
That really wouldn't cost much more then what I would spend to set up a Handi.
It would be nice to have a matched pair of H&R Big Bores though.

Might just do both.
Heck, it's only money!!!

LONGTOM

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** February 11, 2012, 05:23:39 AM »

If ya might need any Jamison brass, better get it while you can, Jamison Intl went out of business a few months ago, knowing that I bought 30 pieces of 50-140 brass @ $2.82 each from Buffalo Arms just in case I decided to have my extra BC barrel rebored.

Tim

LONGTOM · « **Reply #15 on:** February 20, 2012, 12:49:26 PM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on February 11, 2012, 05:23:39 AM

If ya might need any Jamison brass, better get it while you can, Jamison Intl went out of business a few months ago, knowing that I bought 30 pieces of 50-140 brass @ $2.82 each from Buffalo Arms just in case I decided to have my extra BC barrel rebored.

Tim

Already did Tim.
I had 40 pieces of 50-140 Jamison come in last week!

LONGTOM

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** February 20, 2012, 01:31:24 PM »

Good move, it ain't gonna get any cheaper as the supply dries up, I'm not keen on trying Bertram brass from what I've read about it, specially when it costs more! $:-\$

Tim

AtlLaw · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2012, 06:48:13 AM »

Quote from: LONGTOM on February 20, 2012, 12:49:26 PM

I had 40 pieces of 50-140 Jamison come in last week!

But... but... I'M THE ONE WITH THE DIES!!! $:-\$

Where'd ya get them Frank?

bikerbeans · « **Reply #18 on:** February 21, 2012, 07:52:45 AM »

Quote from: quickdtoo on February 11, 2012, 05:23:39 AM

I bought 30 pieces of 50-140 brass @ $2.82 each from Buffalo Arms

Tim

Richard,

I am glad I am not the only one who doesn't pay attention.

BB

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2012, 08:39:23 AM »

BA has the best price I found on Jamison 50-140 brass, $2.82 each when you buy 20-50 as BB pointed out, even less if you buy more.

Grafs is more even tho their shipping is less, BA charged $8.74 priority for the 30 I ordered. Don't forget to order a shell holder too, it's a big un, cost a lot more too, the 450 #2 was almost $14!!

Tim

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=160083&TERM=50-140 brass

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/7407

AtlLaw · « **Reply #20 on:** February 21, 2012, 09:05:07 AM »

Quote from: bikerbeans on February 21, 2012, 07:52:45 AM

I am glad I am not the only one who doesn't pay attention.

okay

Quote from: quickdtoo on February 21, 2012, 08:39:23 AM

BA has the best price I found on Jamison 50-140 brass,

I just checked them out!

Now all I have to do is wait for my pension check to come in.

I got the shell holder already. Hope it's the right one... $:-\$

LONGTOM · « **Reply #21 on:** February 21, 2012, 01:48:39 PM »

Better get that 140 brass before I buy it all.
Bought 50 more pieces tonight along with the shell holder.
That shoots this weeks play money!
Dies are next but $165.00 is kind of salty.
Might have to look around a while on them.

LONGTOM

quickdtoo · « **Reply #22 on:** February 21, 2012, 02:13:22 PM »

I'm plannin on using two 50-90 dies, one sizer with the top cut off that is used for the 499HE, that one should work for the lower part of the case if needed, and another sizer for the neck, that way a die set costs ~$100..... if it works. I also found out the 450 #2 shell holder may work for the 50-140, the 450 just has a thicker rim.

Tim