Author Topic: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.  (Read 4582 times)

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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #60 on: February 11, 2012, 10:06:10 AM »
you have some kids to be proud of.
I'm proud of my daughter too. she's accomplished more than most. but now that she's grown she tells her momma exactly how she got away with things.  she don't tell me.
thankfully our training finally sunk in.  unless she's still fooling us. ::)
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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2012, 12:16:09 PM »
Quote
response #48 by IG tells it like it really is.

Nice dodge.

This thread has three examples of O'Reilly and Hannity treating RP differently than they do the other candidates. For some reason I have strong feeling you'll ignore those facts but here they are anyway:

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,251502.0.html
I don't know what that has to do with this conversation. I posted a response there about fox programming.  anyway response #48 tells the complete story but you are apparently blinded to the facts.  something in RPs koolaid does severe eye damage ;D

It's not my fault that you refuse to watch the videos that I posted which prove your statement about Fox wrong. It's easier to call me a kool aid drinker than accept the fact that you're simply wrong.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2012, 01:00:04 PM »
Quote
response #48 by IG tells it like it really is.

Nice dodge.

This thread has three examples of O'Reilly and Hannity treating RP differently than they do the other candidates. For some reason I have strong feeling you'll ignore those facts but here they are anyway:

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,251502.0.html
I don't know what that has to do with this conversation. I posted a response there about fox programming.  anyway response #48 tells the complete story but you are apparently blinded to the facts.  something in RPs koolaid does severe eye damage ;D

It's not my fault that you refuse to watch the videos that I posted which prove your statement about Fox wrong. It's easier to call me a kool aid drinker than accept the fact that you're simply wrong.
I don't click on videos, my sound doesn't work.
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Offline Doublebass73

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #63 on: February 12, 2012, 01:26:04 PM »
So the videos have Hannity and O'Reilly saying many negative things about Ron Paul including asking him questions that they have never asked the other candidates. They clearly don't like him, much the same way that you don't like him. They are both a part of Fox News Channel. O'Reilly said flat out that Ron Paul can't win, I fail to see how this is "treating RP better than the other candidates" since he hasn't said that about any of the other candidates.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2012, 01:58:20 PM »
So the videos have Hannity and O'Reilly saying many negative things about Ron Paul including asking him questions that they have never asked the other candidates. They clearly don't like him, much the same way that you don't like him. They are both a part of Fox News Channel. O'Reilly said flat out that Ron Paul can't win, I fail to see how this is "treating RP better than the other candidates" since he hasn't said that about any of the other candidates.
concerning those videos, Ironglow gave a sensible and well thought-out response which corresponds with what I've seen while actually watching Fox.
Fox has told the truth about RP.  if nominated, I'll vote for him. if elected, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline spitpatch

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2012, 04:08:49 PM »
   I hvae uesd Ilegael durgs for mnay yreas and tehy hvae nveer aecffetd me in the sgilthset! My sepllnig is prfecet, and I dnot sahke a bit!.....LOL
 
   The illegal/legal drug issue is kind of a moot discussion, and as said earlier, as long as there is a demand....there will be a supply. I think we can all agree on this.
 
   I do however think it curious as I read these posts, as to which drugs should be legalized. I don't agree with any illegal drug use as the "abuse" always becomes a problem for the individual and society combined.
 
   Ones life is dictated by the choices they make, and drug users usually have a pretty poor life, due to stupid choices, that the rest of society eventually has to pay for......
Quality will be remembered long after price is forgotten

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2012, 04:29:49 PM »
So the videos have Hannity and O'Reilly saying many negative things about Ron Paul including asking him questions that they have never asked the other candidates. They clearly don't like him, much the same way that you don't like him. They are both a part of Fox News Channel. O'Reilly said flat out that Ron Paul can't win, I fail to see how this is "treating RP better than the other candidates" since he hasn't said that about any of the other candidates.
concerning those videos, Ironglow gave a sensible and well thought-out response which corresponds with what I've seen while actually watching Fox.
Fox has told the truth about RP.  if nominated, I'll vote for him. if elected, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.

You must not watch Hannity or O'Reilly when they've had RP on. There are other people on Fox who have treated him well but those two have not.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline williamlayton

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #67 on: February 12, 2012, 11:51:27 PM »
If laws worked there would be no crime--no addictions.
Folks are folks--who is electing Obama?
Folks like us, will elect anybody who will allow us to have our guns.
Now I think that this is good---but it is not a one issue thing--these drugs. Addicts have always been---will always be--and we spend a lot of money to keep them from being and are losing ground.
I am just tired of persisting with an idea that just doesn't work. Did we learn anything from prohibition? We don't need a law for those who don't drink and those that do want a snort don't care what non-drinkers care.
Learn--fight wars you can win--we are not winning this one.
I really think that if legalized--the problem will be contained. Those that want will die and those than don't will rule.
Blessings
TEXAS, by GOD

Offline twoshooter

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #68 on: February 13, 2012, 03:17:42 AM »
The drug controversy is not actually about control, about money, about some perceived virtue. Mostly I think it is about the fact that the people who control all the legal money machines are PO'd that someone else is making the money and they are not getting a cut.
 We could end and win the drug war in a couple of years time if that was what we really wanted. We could go to the south american cartels, hook them up with monsanto and a contract to produce genetically engineered plants that would create some kind of very lethal drug when processed. Pull out all the DEA and border enforcement, let the drugs flow in unimpeded. The number of OD'd deaths skyrocket. Funeral homes flourish, they have to expand crematoriums. Lets say they they can get the death toll up to 20,000 a month nation wide for a year or two. Addicts would be nearly extinct. There would be no new addicts because of natural consequences. People now take chances with drugs because they have learned from pot and alcohol that most of what they hear is just hype, if it were demonstrably true they would not.
      This is not actually about stopping drugs, or promoting welfare ( in the real sense of the word) it is about control and who is making the money.
      Make a number of drugs legal. Regulate them, assure strength and purity, consistency. Tax the hell out of them. Use the money for education and treatment programs. Not like they have done with tobacco either, where they protest the product and then all run with their hand out to grab it for general revenue. Work on research about addiction, about the chemical basis for it, and the psychological/ psychiatric effects. Work on WHY people are driven to use drugs to start with. I am sorry, but just whining that you should not have to deal with the problem does not cut it. That is like me saying how unfair it is that I live in a deciduous forest and so have to rake leaves, people in evergreens don't have that problem.
1000 years ago Men KNEW the Earth was the center of the Universe.....500 years ago Men KNEW the world was flat....... 15 minutes ago you KNEW man was alone in the universe.... Just IMAGINE what we will know tomorrow !! "K"- from Men in Black.

Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #69 on: February 13, 2012, 04:44:32 AM »
[size=78%]This is not actually about stopping drugs, or promoting welfare ( in the real sense of the word) it is about control and who is making the money. [/size]
Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!!
We have a winnah! Give that man a cee-gar! (or a Texas Torpedo)
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #70 on: February 15, 2012, 03:56:00 PM »
  I simply reiterate;
 
   " Hannity definitely doesn't play up to Romney..if he were to favor one, I suspect it would be Santorum or Gingrich, since their politics are probably closer to Hannity than the other two.  I watch him regularly and I still don't know who he favors, or if he even does favor anyone.
I haven't seen hostility from either Hannity or O'Reilly towards any of the Republican candidates..but Hannity does exhibit a dislike for Obama's policies !
  Both have asked questions of each candidate..and they can sometimes be embarassing if the candidate has no solid, logical, explanation for his stated position.  Don't confuse fair..but tough question, with animosity.."
...
 
  I am mystified with all the paranoia... O'Reilly asks both fair and tough questions of ANYONE.  Frankly, the videos showed him to be questioning Paul in the same manner he questions virtually everyone.  If that is some of the worst you can find..he must have gone light with ron Paul !
    Hannity is a bit more opinionated than is O'Reilly.  Hannity is more the true/full conservative than either Paul or O'Reilly, so his probing questions may prove a bit more difficult...
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #71 on: February 15, 2012, 04:32:15 PM »
  I simply reiterate;
 
   " Hannity definitely doesn't play up to Romney..if he were to favor one, I suspect it would be Santorum or Gingrich, since their politics are probably closer to Hannity than the other two.  I watch him regularly and I still don't know who he favors, or if he even does favor anyone.
I haven't seen hostility from either Hannity or O'Reilly towards any of the Republican candidates..but Hannity does exhibit a dislike for Obama's policies !
  Both have asked questions of each candidate..and they can sometimes be embarassing if the candidate has no solid, logical, explanation for his stated position.  Don't confuse fair..but tough question, with animosity.."
...
 
  I am mystified with all the paranoia... O'Reilly asks both fair and tough questions of ANYONE.  Frankly, the videos showed him to be questioning Paul in the same manner he questions virtually everyone.  If that is some of the worst you can find..he must have gone light with ron Paul !
    Hannity is a bit more opinionated than is O'Reilly.  Hannity is more the true/full conservative than either Paul or O'Reilly, so his probing questions may prove a bit more difficult...

Like I said before, show me the video clip of either Hannity or O'Reilly asking ANY of the other Republican candidates if they are going to run third party and I'll buy your argument.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #72 on: February 15, 2012, 04:35:55 PM »
If laws worked there would be no crime--no addictions.
Folks are folks--who is electing Obama?
Folks like us, will elect anybody who will allow us to have our guns.
Now I think that this is good---but it is not a one issue thing--these drugs. Addicts have always been---will always be--and we spend a lot of money to keep them from being and are losing ground.
I am just tired of persisting with an idea that just doesn't work. Did we learn anything from prohibition? We don't need a law for those who don't drink and those that do want a snort don't care what non-drinkers care.
Learn--fight wars you can win--we are not winning this one.
I really think that if legalized--the problem will be contained. Those that want will die and those than don't will rule.
Blessings

Well said William. We've spent Trillions of dollars on the "war on drugs" and the same amount of people or more are still getting high as compared to before the war was started. It's time to change our strategy.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

---- William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

Offline yellowtail3

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Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline ironglow

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #74 on: February 15, 2012, 05:06:07 PM »
  Perhaps we should solve the drug problem as the Chinese did, during the early years of their communist dictatorship..
  http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=73&catid=2&subcatid=6
 
  Just click to that website and then read the paragraphs beside the picture shown below..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #75 on: February 16, 2012, 12:42:18 AM »
The problem with a lot of people on this forum is that they only get their News from a single source.  There is no truth to be had by only getting info from one news source.  You have to read or watch many news sources and then figure out the truth using your own intellect and logic.  Fox news may report bits of truth, but on the whole they are just as agenda driven for the "conservatives" as CBS and ABC are as agenda driven for the lilberals.
 
It's very easy to tell who has the intellectual ability to come to their own conclusion about truth in the news on this forum and even easier to sort out the ones that can't.
I'm voting 3rd party in this election by writing in Jesus Christ for president.  Sadly even if this were an option most of you would still vote Republican because "It's a two party system."

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #76 on: February 16, 2012, 08:28:27 AM »
My own personally arrived at conclusion is that you cannot cure stupid. Play stupid games win stupid prizes, witness the downfall of Whitney Houston.


Guess what, it was her money, her life, and she should be able to use both as she saw fit. No doubt she was as happy with an Eight Ball of coke as I am with a nice Elk on the ground at my feet. At least she worked her tail off to get what she wanted.
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #77 on: February 16, 2012, 11:13:44 AM »
The problem with a lot of people on this forum is that they only get their News from a single source.  There is no truth to be had by only getting info from one news source.  You have to read or watch many news sources and then figure out the truth using your own intellect and logic.  Fox news may report bits of truth, but on the whole they are just as agenda driven for the "conservatives" as CBS and ABC are as agenda driven for the lilberals.
 
It's very easy to tell who has the intellectual ability to come to their own conclusion about truth in the news on this forum and even easier to sort out the ones that can't.
hey I've hit the big-time.  I'm in someones sig line.
legalizing drug is insane. here's a link about marajuana and it's not near as bad as cocain and others.
http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/infofacts/marijuana
lets make easier for our kids to get their hands on.
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline DDZ

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #78 on: February 16, 2012, 01:10:53 PM »
Bugeye I usually agree with most all of your posts, and this particular issue of legalizing drugs I used to be 100% against it, but awhile ago, after looking at the issue, I think, why not legalize them. As others have said we have been throwing all kind of tax dollars at it with no results. Not any that we are looking for anyway. I used to dabble in illegal drugs mostly when I was a teenager, mostly pot, and it was pretty easy to acquire, all you needed was money. Hundreds of kids in school smoked it. I remember sitting at concerts where most everyone there was smoking pot. The smoke rising above the crowd was not from cigarettes.
     The point is that anyone that wanted it could get it. Law or no law. I don't know how easy pot is to acquire today, but I figure its just as easy if not easier. Look at how many life destroying drugs are available today. I hear of the number of schools that are plagued with heroin use. Its illegal, harmful, and very addictive, but yet if anyone wants to try it, it appears to be very easy to get, and its being used by kids, and adults regardless of what any rules or laws there are.
    Mans heart is inherently evil. Humans default to immoral, dishonest, and corrupt. The Bible teaches that man can't be good without God. Only through Christ is man able to live a new life, and the new life refers to the opposite of immoral, harmful, evil life. There is no good or evil without a standard. There is no right and wrong without a standard, and Jesus Christ is that standard. I really don't believe any law or rule will fix any immorality, evil, or wrong, but by accepting Christ, and letting Christ live his life through you, immorality, evil, and wrong can be fixed.         
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #79 on: February 16, 2012, 02:43:01 PM »
DDZ, I tried marajuana in the early 70s.  one was all it took because I was greatly impaired.
maybe making severe penalties if you commit a crime while high?
I don't have all the answers for sure.
being in severe pain at most times, I also know how the hard stuff affects people.
my medicine cabinet would bring a fortune on the black market. ;D
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Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #80 on: February 17, 2012, 02:40:03 AM »
BUGEYE,
In reference to your previous post, your source is the same one that gave us one of the most laughable movies of all times called "Reefer Madness".
GuzziJohn

Offline turk762

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #81 on: February 17, 2012, 03:23:36 AM »
The arguement that we should make drugs legal because they have been illegal for a while and people are still getting them, selling them, and doing them is foolish.
 
Rape is illegal, people still do it, lets make it legal!
Murder is illegal, people still do it, lets make it legal!
Robbery is illegal, people still do it, lets make it legal!
 
You get the point, These laws are by far, older then any drug laws and the have never been completely stopped and never will as long as there is people on the face of the earth.
 
When we make a law it is a deterant, it attempts to keep honest people honest, but crooked people are still going to commit crime regardless of what laws you enact. Laws are not a gauranty that no one will break them, its guidelines to follow if you dont want to get into trouble.
 
No law is going to stop all illegal acts!!! Its is rules for the rest of us to follow that are willing to live by the rules. The rest can face the punishments they have coming.
 
Some people say the drug laws are not strong enough, some say they are too strict and should be done away with. Sounds to me the law is between both the arguement so maybe that is where it should stay to represent all in society.

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #82 on: February 17, 2012, 04:22:56 AM »
Turk, I find a lot to agree with in your post above. Where I disagree is in your comparison of drug use to Rape, Murder and Robbery. In each of the three you use there is another party, a victim, who has been violated to some degree. With drug use ... just drug use mind you, not any activity committed while under its influence ... the only one violated is the user.


I believe that is the significant distinction, and should be considered.


To make an apples to apples comparison,
- cigarette use is only prohibited in public places where it puts others at risk of inhalation, but your are free to smoke away in your own home, or designated places.
- alcohol use is only prohibited while operating a vehicle where it puts others at risk of harm, but you are free to drink until you pass out at home, or designated places.
- use of various chemicals and medicines are regulated by the FDA and others, allowing an individual to use them under professional control, but mitigating the chance that they might incur harms to others. You are free to take all the pain meds your doctor prescribes under his care.


Comparing them to other harmful substances that are presently legal, it seems to me we have an inconsistent application of the law and we speak out of both sides of our mouth when we say its okay for Uncle Joe to drink a 5th a night because its alcohol and not marijuana.


You know how to tell the difference between a meth head and someone on oxycotin? One MIGHT have a prescription, other than that, it requires a lab test.


The role of law is to protect us from each other, not from ourselves. Otherwise Michelle is absolutely justified in penalizing families who don't pack enough veggies in their kids school lunch.
held fast

Offline turk762

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #83 on: February 17, 2012, 07:47:18 AM »
Turk, I find a lot to agree with in your post above. Where I disagree is in your comparison of drug use to Rape, Murder and Robbery. In each of the three you use there is another party, a victim, who has been violated to some degree. With drug use ... just drug use mind you, not any activity committed while under its influence ... the only one violated is the user.


I believe that is the significant distinction, and should be considered.


To make an apples to apples comparison,
- cigarette use is only prohibited in public places where it puts others at risk of inhalation, but your are free to smoke away in your own home, or designated places.
- alcohol use is only prohibited while operating a vehicle where it puts others at risk of harm, but you are free to drink until you pass out at home, or designated places.
- use of various chemicals and medicines are regulated by the FDA and others, allowing an individual to use them under professional control, but mitigating the chance that they might incur harms to others. You are free to take all the pain meds your doctor prescribes under his care.


Comparing them to other harmful substances that are presently legal, it seems to me we have an inconsistent application of the law and we speak out of both sides of our mouth when we say its okay for Uncle Joe to drink a 5th a night because its alcohol and not marijuana.


You know how to tell the difference between a meth head and someone on oxycotin? One MIGHT have a prescription, other than that, it requires a lab test.


The role of law is to protect us from each other, not from ourselves. Otherwise Michelle is absolutely justified in penalizing families who don't pack enough veggies in their kids school lunch.

I agree with you as long as they stay home alone, I have never seen a home raided because someone is home smoking a one joint by themselves or with a friend, and I ask seriously, have you?
 
 The problem comes in when they do interact with others. Selling pot, smoking with their children in the home or on their laps, I ve seen both.  Neighbor children in the home and they are smoking it, driving down the road and smoking it. ect. ect, ect. It could go on and on. These people expose others to it by driving, going to the store for muncies, acting stupid in front of others and disrupt society, if they were not they would never have to worry about getting caught.
 
If someone wants to be a closet smoker, never go into public stoned and acting like morons and growing their own (not buy from others on the street) I have no problem with that. The problem comes in when they do go into public they are stepping on my rights to not have to have me or my family exposed to it, just like a drunk. Behave and you will probly never have a problem.
 
 By going into public stoned you are exposing all to the general public and they should not have to be exposed, talking to your children, who wants to deal with it?
 
Bottom Line is dont expose me or others to it, their will not be a problem. This is how most get on the police radar, by the general public complaining, this is how they get caught. Not the police looking through the walls of the home waiting for them to fire up the one joint they have.
 
With the children in the home they are creating a victim.
 
I do know that meth head stink like metal and I have seen and smelled it, and it is unmistakebly meth.
 
Alot of the offenses, rape, murder, ect, ect that I stated are commited by people that use pot and other drugs and are usually under the influnce of one or more when they commit the acts. Normaly they are not committed by citizens that follow the rules.
 
So yes, I totally agree the law is supposed to protect us and not control what we do to ourselves and I believe this law protects the general public from being exposed to the activities.
 If you stay home, smoke it, never expose the general public to it, by taking it into public I can promise you that you will probly never ever have a problem of the law knocking on your door.

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #84 on: February 17, 2012, 08:16:51 AM »
turk762, good posts.  defense lawyers try to use drugs as an excuse for their clients crimes.
"I didn't do it, the drugs did"
my wife has a cousin who was nearly beaten to death by her husband while high on meth.
he has since been killed in a wreck while high on alcohol, leaving two kids without a dad.
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #85 on: February 17, 2012, 09:05:15 AM »
BUGEYE, it sounds as though you are saying that blaming drugs for the crime is a cop out. Can I imply then that whether or not you are under the influence of a substance, that you should still be responsible for your actions? That makes use of a substance legally inert.


Turk, I would not disagree that illegal substances are a contributing factor in many social/family problems. What about legal substances? Is an oxycotin, percaset, or other legally prescribed narcotic addict less of a threat to their family and society? Would someone who engages in illegal activity under the influence of oxycotin be less morally reprehensible than someone who does so on Meth?


My point is, [size=78%]we have arbitrarily picked some substances and made them morally negative, while leaving other substances ... which are just as catalyzing as the ones we've declared morally negative, alone. [/size][size=78%]The law is supposed to make sense, not be arbitrary. What is the plausible determining factor to justify criminalization of one substance over another?[/size]


I would argue that the most lawful course of action is to hold people accountable for their actions, regardless of what substance they're on, as Bugeye would seem to suggest - I don't want to put words in his mouth though. And leave it at that. The minute your use of a substance interferes with someone else, then its illegal, but not until. The argument from potential is the justification used by liberals to condemn guns, little debbies, and the Bible, and you'll notice that they use our present drug legislation as the precedent for their argument.


Just asking for some consistency and rationality in the argument. I've been around every form of addict in my profession, and I don't understand how we can rationally demonize someone for smoking pot, but getting drunk is ok.
held fast

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #86 on: February 17, 2012, 09:15:45 AM »
TN, I take pain killers and have for several years.  the only time I drive is in the morning when I'm not under the influence and before the pain get Too bad.
I get to go out most mornings to see friends and drink coffee and an occasional drive to the woods.
I will NOT drive if I have taken medicine within the last 10 hours. (doctors advice)
I act responsibly.
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
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Offline turk762

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #87 on: February 17, 2012, 09:57:28 AM »
TN Most prescription drugs are suppossed to be regulated by the doctor and if there is Ill effects the DR are ultimatly responsible for the effects as long as the patient is not abusing them. I know that this system is abused as well,  as for how to rectify that, its over my head.
Some people do need the medication for pain, so I dont think you can make it all illegal. Abuse of pain medication is just as illegal as any other illegal drugs sometimes with more harsh punishment then just pot. Most meds are schedule 2 so they are in a more serious class then just pot.
 
So I guess what I am trying to say is the drugs that are morally wrong are ALL drugs that are being abused, NOT just the ones that are illegal to have. I have never heard any one say that it is ok for someone to abuse oxycotin. If they made Pot legal for Medical use then I would have to deal with it.
 
Another problem with the abuse of drugs, Legal or illegal is that the person is using the drug to get HIGH, NOT to help alleviate there pain.
 
I have never seen any good come from the illegal use of any drugs, but I have seen plenty of good come from legal drugs used legally. EX: comfort when injured, regulate severe pain. As for how do we pick and choose which is legal and which is illegal if fairly simply, ARE THEY USING IT TO GET HIGH or to help with pain, (under a DR. supervision of course).
 

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #88 on: February 17, 2012, 11:59:55 AM »
Turk, this is a great conversation, and I appreciate your comments. I agree that abuse of a substance is most typically associated with a desire to get high, and not to alleviate pain.


Using any of the rationale that you've given so far, all of which is very compelling, how is alcohol different?


My wife and I just had this conversation; her Bachelor's is related to Substance Abuse and Family issues; I'm a "professional" counselor if you will, very often for persons with substance abuse issues. (One of mine showed up for duty with a BAC of .275 yesterday.) [size=78%]At present there is no scientific data to demonstrate that alcohol is any less dangerous in its effect on the person or society than any of the illegal substances, and yet its considered socially acceptable. Clinically we know that the substance does not give the consumer any tendencies that weren't already present, does not cause them to do something that they wouldn't otherwise do, they simply remove the inhibitions that we consciously put in place to keep ourselves from unacceptable behavior. One example, amongst teen aged patients admitted for attempted suicide, Zoloft is commonly a contributing factor; ironically its the most prescribed anti-depressant (SSRI) for that demographic, with a documented side effect of increasing suicidal behavior. The teen was already depressed and ideating, the zoloft just put a touch of kerosene on the embers. But its legally prescribed by "medical professionals." All that to say, clinically, there is no substantiated evidence that would indicate that a substance causes a behavior ... hence Bugeye's objection to using it as a defense.[/size]


If that is the case, why should any substance be illegal if alcohol is not?
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Lets make drugs legal. Great stuff, we can handle it.
« Reply #89 on: February 17, 2012, 12:18:27 PM »
TN, alcohol is a drug.
several years ago I went to a nuerologist about my benign tremor.  he gave me something that I can't recall the name, but after the second dose, I had feelings of extreme dispair, and when I took a nap, I dreamed about suicide.  needless to say I still have my tremor.
IMO, todays kids are over medicated.  in the schools around here, ritalin is the drug of choice.
it's real easy to drug a kid instead of taking a switch to his butt.
the school nurse said to my wife one day that it was strange that boys needed ritalin but the girls didn't.  it was tongue in cheek of course.
if someone harms my wife or daughter while using drugs or alcohol, they'd better pray that I don't catch him/her.
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye