Author Topic: Want to till a piece of lawn under for a garden (Read 906 times)

lakota · « **on:** February 10, 2012, 05:31:13 AM »

Any suggestions on what I should add to the soil? I was thinking of a load of compost. I also have a garbage can full of wood ashes from my stove should I till those in too?

I also have a bunch of railroad ties(not treated landscaping timbers) I was going to use to line the perimeter. These are very old ties. I keep reading conflicting things about using them one guy says yes they are safe and then someone else says no its not safe for them to be in contact with the garden soil.

jvs · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2012, 09:23:54 AM »

In my opinion you should first get a soil test kit from your State Extension Service and send it out to see what your soil needs. Then get as many leaves as you can find to till under, along with any recommended remedy the Extension Service tells you to do. You still have time but this stuff should really have been done in the fall.

I have seen more than one garden ruined from too many Ashes spread over and tilled under. You have to be careful as to how much you add. Once you add too many ashes, it takes alot of remedy to correct it. Again, the Soil Test response will be your best friend when it comes to adding ashes.

As for the Ties... You said they were not treated. Does that mean they were never treated as a railroad tie or they were never pressure treated? Just plain old wood? If they were not treated at all, I don't know why anyone would tell you not to use them. Railroad ties were usually treated with Creosote, Pressure Treated lumber uses other Chemicals. In any case, I don't think it matters much as long as you are only using for a border. Just don't get a splinter.

lakota · « **Reply #2 on:** February 10, 2012, 09:56:46 AM »

They are old salvaged railroad ties so the have some creosote

bilmac · « **Reply #3 on:** February 10, 2012, 10:58:10 AM »

I would be careful with the ashes too. We have desert soil here which is already too salty. I made lots of burn piles cleaning a place I just bought up. Some are 3 or 4 years old now and I still have trouble getting grass to close back over them.

powderman · « **Reply #4 on:** February 10, 2012, 12:01:01 PM »

LAKOTA. The earlier you till the easier is is to do, also gives the grass a chance to die and mix in. Yes to the compost and I used to add wood ashes too but like has been said, get it tested. If you add a bunch of leaves, which I do too, they are high in acid and you will need xtra lime to counter the acid. There are several sawmills close to here and a lot of folks till sawdust in to loosen up the soil, but like the leaves they too are acidic so lime is needed. My soil here is heavy, lots of clay so I add a bit of different things to loosen the soil, including broken corn cobs. Enjoy. POWDERMAN.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #5 on:** February 10, 2012, 10:38:07 PM »

May I make a couple suggestions?

First I would do the soil testing most especially a pH test shoot for 6.5 with 6.0 to 7.0 as pretty darn good and under 5.6 as getting fairly poor depending on the crops desired. pH affects the ability of the soil to give up fertility to the plants. Think of it as having $10,000 in the bank but every transaction is subject to a %25 fee. The transaction fee goes down the closer to 7.0 you get, and again some crops are more tolerant than others, 6.5 being a good average.

Second I would spray the garden with Roundup about a week or two before tilling. You won't be fighting sod trying to come up all summer and if long enough before hand the ground will till nicer to boot.

If you start adding a bunch of organic matter be aware that you can tie up nitrogen as the straw etcetera is decomposing. This is why most experts will say to add "well decomposed" manure compost etcetera. The nitrogen will be slowly released throughout the season but you can be very low early on, and cause undue stress because of N starvation. One solution is to add extra Nitrogen fertilizer with the Organic Matter. Yes the sod counts as un-decomposed OM, go ahead and add a bit more N than would normally be used, say %15 - %20.

lakota · « **Reply #6 on:** February 11, 2012, 05:15:06 AM »

With the mild winter we were having I was thinking about getting started on the prep work this weekend but now my proposed garden has about 14" of snow on it.

keith44 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 11, 2012, 07:23:02 PM »

break sod with a shovel, by double digging the entire area or all that tilling will do is spread grass seed and rhizomes into the topsoil where they will take over the garden. after digging and getting all the sod and grass to the bottom layers of the soil (12 to 16 inches down, till the top 6 to 8 inches (normal tilling depth) and then get a soil sample test performed. Adding compost (well rotted) is always a good idea, anything else could do more harm than good. Wood as a perimeter barrier is ok, but the outer edges of the garden soil will be nitrogen deficient due to the wood breaking down and using up this nutrient.

Projects like this are usually best started in October or November to allow time to ammend the soil.

bilmac · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2012, 04:59:43 AM »

Now if you really are using untreated timber on the perimeter that would be a place to grow some oyster mushrooms like someone on an earlier post had asked about.

longwinters · « **Reply #9 on:** February 13, 2012, 12:52:29 PM »

Yep, that sod can be a real back breaker. I tilled my garden spots just deep enough to get the sod off. Picked it all up and used it to fill holes etc...then tilled over the spots several times from different directions to get down to as far as my rear tine tiller could. go. Built frames around with 2x12's and then added good top soil. Planted winter wheat and the following spring tilled that under also. Finally added peat, tilled and planted.

Now each year I rotate my veggies in different plots. Till under what is safe to till and plant with rye or winter wheat. And the wheels on the bus go round and round.......

Long

keith44 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2012, 09:08:09 PM »

Quote from: longwinters on February 13, 2012, 12:52:29 PM

Yep, that sod can be a real back breaker. I tilled my garden spots just deep enough to get the sod off. Picked it all up and used it to fill holes etc...then tilled over the spots several times from different directions to get down to as far as my rear tine tiller could. go. Built frames around with 2x12's and then added good top soil. Planted winter wheat and the following spring tilled that under also. Finally added peat, tilled and planted.

Now each year I rotate my veggies in different plots. Till under what is safe to till and plant with rye or winter wheat. And the wheels on the bus go round and round.......

Long

and that is just to get started, how much mulch do you add while the main crops are growing

longwinters · « **Reply #11 on:** February 14, 2012, 01:04:10 PM »

The only mulch I use is straw around my blueberry bushes and a red "mulch" which is actually plastic under my tomato and pepper plants. It can be used several years if one is careful.

Long

keith44 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 14, 2012, 04:23:44 PM »

I seem to have better results by mulching the whole garden areas with leaves and grass clippings. I do this more for keeping the soil moist than for weed control, but it helps

bilmac · « **Reply #13 on:** February 15, 2012, 04:17:01 AM »

I also like to mulch heavily with organic debris. This is also a form of sheet composting, the mulch decomposes over the summer and gets turned in at the end of the growing season. Trouble is my gardens have far outgrown my available mulch. I think I can get spoiled hay free though. I advertised on one of the free radio swap shop type things for spoiled hay last fall, and got about 30 bales. I will advertise again this spring.

keith44 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 15, 2012, 03:19:54 PM »

excellent idea

longwinters · « **Reply #15 on:** February 15, 2012, 04:47:26 PM »

bilmac,

Don't you get weeds etc... from the seeds in hay? One thing that I forgot to mention was that I put down a layer of straw then topsoil over it in my raised beds. I didn't have much, but did have some growth come up through the top soil.

Long

bilmac · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2012, 11:51:19 AM »

A woman wrote a book about continuous heavy mulch. Been so long since I read it I can't remember title or author. I have been sorta following her system for a long time. Not many weeds come up if the mulch is thick enough. When they do you have to pull them to avoid stirring the mulch, but they always pull easy because the ground underneath is always soft and moist.

Another advantage of heavy mulch is that when you are done in the garden you don't have a layer of mud on your shoes.

blind ear · « **Reply #17 on:** February 16, 2012, 07:50:00 PM »

Quote from: bilmac on February 16, 2012, 11:51:19 AM

A woman wrote a book about continuous heavy mulch. Been so long since I read it I can't remember title or author. I have been sorta following her system for a long time. Not many weeds come up if the mulch is thick enough. When they do you have to pull them to avoid stirring the mulch, but they always pull easy because the ground underneath is always soft and moist.

Another advantage of heavy mulch is that when you are done in the garden you don't have a layer of mud on your shoes.

Might it have been: Ruth Stout "No-Work Garden Book" ? I have promoted this book several times here. available on Amazon. ear

reliquary · « **Reply #18 on:** February 17, 2012, 05:25:43 AM »

My experience with hay: unless I let it really rot...compost itself...I get a lot of "stuff-come-up". I pick up a few unusable bales every year, just pile it in an unused place in my yard, cover it with leaves and clippings, and leave it for a couple of years. Otherwise I get lots of nice green grass coming up where I don't want it to.

Most times around here, if a bale falls off a hauler, they don't come back to get it. Especially round bales, which burst and unroll. I use a pitchfork and fill the back of my truck when I have nothing else to do and am not in a hurry.

My mulch is mostly grass clippings and mowed-up leaves. I get enough from my yard and trees, plus my neighbor's lot, that I deep one compost pile working while using the current stuff for mulch.

bilmac · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2012, 05:50:55 AM »

You know until receintly I have always used grass clippings and leaves too. Last year was the first when I didn't have enough of those and my first use of hay will be next spring. I hope that since this is obviously old rotting stuff the seeds will be pretty far gone.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #20 on:** February 22, 2012, 04:49:39 PM »

I use a tiller on the back of my tractor to till up new ground. I go over it one time, let it set several days and then go over it again. I do the same thing when i'm reclaiming old pastures/fields, except i use a much bigger tiller for those.

As for mulch, i pile it on EVERY year, and i have been growing gardens this way for years and years. I plant the garden and start mulching,

If you have weeds comeing through the much, then your mulch isn't on thick enough!

Pile it on, you can't put it on too thick, it will dry out and nothing will grow through it,

And the plants grow like CRAZY, use less water, produceing VERY well,

In the fall, i till it down, and if becomes food for next years plants.

DM