Author Topic: Two new to me rifles. (Read 816 times)

8uck5nort · « **on:** February 12, 2012, 11:32:05 AM »

Local gun show this weekend. Picked up a NEF in 500 SW in really good shape with Bushnell Banner 3-9x40 scope, steel VH rings and neoprene non slip sling. Missing original sights. I know I paid less than what a new one cost, but not by much, so I feel like I got my moneys worth with the goodies it came with. I also did some swapping and selling and ended up with a HR survivor in 410/45LC. It is not the one with the thumbhole stock. Not sure why I picked it up as I don't really need it. More or less it was to equalize the value in the trade. Not sure what I am going to do with this one. I have a 357 mag soon to max and now have a 500 SW. I do plan on adding a 44 mag soon. Probably just get a barrel so I can swap between the 500 SW and 44 mag.

I plan on throwing a 250 yrd to 300 yrd BDC style shockproof scope with generous eye relief on the 500 SW. I also picked up the brass and bullets with some H110 to start working loads. I hope to have a legit 300 yard deer gun with pleanty of knock down power at the max range. We'll see.

petemi · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2012, 12:29:55 PM »

I hate to rain on your parade, but the .500 is about the last rifle you want for a 300 yard deer rifle. The drop at 300, sighted in at 150 with a 350 gr. XTP at 2000 fps is 44 inches

It's even worse sighted in at 100.

Pete

quickdtoo · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2012, 12:37:47 PM »

Congrats on the new rifle and Survivor!!

Pete, that's why the BDC scope.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,131576.msg1098490701.html#msg1098490701

8uck5nort · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2012, 12:45:04 PM »

44 inches! Holy Cow!. Talk about a rainbow.

For hunting purposes I plan on developing out a load based around a 275 or 300 grain bullet, Hornady FTX perhaps. They only had 350 gr bullets at the show so that is what I bought for now. The lighter bullet should get the drop decreased to a more respectable level. At least that is my idea. The scope I plan on using will be designed for this type of shooting. Looking at the Nikon in-lin 300 BDC. So I am hoping with some load tweaking and some advances in the optics world I can do it

tacklebury · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2012, 12:49:42 PM »

Couple guys I've talked to have been shooting Lee R.E.A.L. bullets in theirs with good luck, if you cast your own.

http://fsreloading.com/lee-mold-d-c-50cal-250-90394.html
http://fsreloading.com/lee-mold-d-c-50cal-320-90396.html

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2012, 12:51:46 PM »

The lighter(shorter) bullets have a terrible BC, not much better than a roundball, the 385gr Rem is a much better choice and it's made for rifle velocities, not the slower revolver, that's why I chose it and what will be used in my 499 Hubel Express at ~2400fps, see the link I posted, and make some comparisons to the lighter bullets, the 300gr FTX has a BC of ~~.171~~.200, the 385gr Rem is .285.

Tim

http://www.hornady.com/store/50-Cal-.500-300-gr-FTX/

Quote from: quickdtoo on February 12, 2012, 12:37:47 PM

Congrats on the new rifle and Survivor!!

Pete, that's why the BDC scope.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,131576.msg1098490701.html#msg1098490701

bikerbeans · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2012, 01:00:05 PM »

Quote from: tacklebury on February 12, 2012, 12:49:42 PM

Couple guys I've talked to have been shooting Lee R.E.A.L. bullets in theirs with good luck, if you cast your own.

http://fsreloading.com/lee-mold-d-c-50cal-250-90394.html
http://fsreloading.com/lee-mold-d-c-50cal-320-90396.html

50 Cal MZ bullet in a 500 S&W Cartridge?

BB

petemi · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2012, 01:39:00 PM »

To me, that's the biggest problem with pistol and lever gun caliber Handis.....finding longer, heavier pointed bullets with a decent BC.

Pete

tacklebury · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2012, 02:17:49 PM »

Quote from: bikerbeans on February 12, 2012, 01:00:05 PM

Quote from: tacklebury on February 12, 2012, 12:49:42 PM
Couple guys I've talked to have been shooting Lee R.E.A.L. bullets in theirs with good luck, if you cast your own.

http://fsreloading.com/lee-mold-d-c-50cal-250-90394.html
http://fsreloading.com/lee-mold-d-c-50cal-320-90396.html

50 Cal MZ bullet in a 500 S&W Cartridge?

BB

Yep, don't know what powder combo he's using, think it's mainly been fffg black powder. He stated they were accurate and he molded them slightly harder with typical bullet alloy not pure lead like you would usually for muzzle loaders.

Sounded like a great way to shoot on the cheap.

MNSHOOTER · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2012, 03:49:08 PM »

I have taken deer out to 150 yd with my .500 and out to 200 yd. with my .460 Granted they are hand guns, but belive me the 500 sw does not do well at the longer ranges. I had one 1/4 mi track job. That big punckin ball is made to hone your hunying skills.Get close and dont worry about it.!! Within 100 yrd. theirs no trackin if you do your part !!

hoytcanon · « **Reply #10 on:** February 12, 2012, 07:23:22 PM »

I agree that 500 SW is NOT a longer range caliber... but above Pete talked about the drop when sighted at 150 yards or 100 yards... if your intention is to shoot beyond 200 yards, then why would you sight in at shorter range;

Using Hornady Leverevolution 300 grain 500 S&W and sighted in at 200 yards (with an approximate rifle MV of 2300 fps)

1. 5.7" high at 125 yards
2. Zeroed at 200 yards
3. 10.6" low at 250 yards
4. 28.6" low at 300 yards

So as you can see... 300 yards is pushing it... but it is not as bad as ealier reported, if you optimize for longer distances.

petemi · « **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2012, 12:50:58 AM »

The reason I mentioned 100 yards is because that's where most deer hunters sight in. The point I was trying to make, perhaps not so well, is that it drops like a rock at longer range. I have a Handi .500, and like Tim, it's a novelty. I enjoy shooting it, but I never hunt deer with it here on my place because 2 -300 yard shots are common. I'll probably use it if I draw a bear tag next season.

Pete

hoytcanon · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2012, 02:02:10 AM »

Quote from: petemi on February 13, 2012, 12:50:58 AM

The reason I mentioned 100 yards is because that's where most deer hunters sight in. The point I was trying to make, perhaps not so well, is that it drops like a rock at longer range. I have a Handi .500, and like Tim, it's a novelty. I enjoy shooting it, but I never hunt deer with it here on my place because 2 -300 yard shots are common. I'll probably use it if I draw a bear tag next season. Pete

You made your point, Pete... I was just balancing the info, but think it supported the point that you were making... 500 S&W is not a 300 yard caliber, too much risk of wounding loss... but it would be a great stand hunting bear gun... good luck. The 30 + bears that I have taken were all with archery equipment... I haven't hunted bears since they cancelled the spring bear hunt here in Ontario (friggin' politicians!).

8uck5nort · « **Reply #13 on:** February 13, 2012, 02:07:40 AM »

I live and hunt in Indiana. We are very restricted on our calibers foir deer. So far the only viable option I see that is commercially available to reach out to 300 yards is the 500 S W. It is a definite 150 yrd and in rifle. I opted to give this a try because big and slow even at that range should (at least that is my theory) have enough kinetic energy to deliver a kill shot granting this rifle can prove accurate enough (with some bedding and optics) to hit a non moving target at 300 yards. No run and gun here. Will I actually ever shoot something at that range? Probably not, most of the hunting takes place in the 100 yrd and under ranges, but I want that experience and reasonable belief in my ability to do so. Plus it will just be outright fun to try. I will kill a lot of paper proving or disproving it!

I also want to see how it will stack up against the 357 max at its maximum range for a comparision.

petemi · « **Reply #14 on:** February 13, 2012, 02:41:09 AM »

Considering the Indiana restrictions, your better bet, I think would be the .357 Maximum if you need to reach out. Ask Dinny.

Pete

twoshooter · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2012, 03:30:34 AM »

I think there is no doubt that the 357 range wise would be superior on getting on target. I have hunted deer with the 500 and am very happy with it, if you put the bullet in the right place there is no comparison with a 357

like the difference between being hit by a Yugo or an old Buick. There are big fields in Indiana, so long shots are possible, but you can always get closer than 300 yards. The 357 is not a 300 yard gun either.

RPRNY · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2012, 03:39:36 AM »

Quote from: bikerbeans on February 12, 2012, 01:00:05 PM

Quote from: tacklebury on February 12, 2012, 12:49:42 PM
Couple guys I've talked to have been shooting Lee R.E.A.L. bullets in theirs with good luck, if you cast your own.

http://fsreloading.com/lee-mold-d-c-50cal-250-90394.html
http://fsreloading.com/lee-mold-d-c-50cal-320-90396.html

50 Cal MZ bullet in a 500 S&W Cartridge?

BB

The cannelure in a pistol round is apparently very bad ballistic ju-ju. Not entirely apples to apples, but the Hornady 300gr FTX (.500) bullet for the 500 S&W has a BC of .200 and an SD of .171. The 50 Cal muzzle loader bullet 300 gr SST (.452) has a BC of .250 and an SD .210 But the issue remains that short, fat bullets, pointy tipped or not, are not going to make for accurate 300 yd bullets. The 45-70 (and beyond) or this dragon slaying .499 HE are the big bore rifles for that kind of work. Mind you, the 270 Win would be my choice for those distances but, I know, it's only a wee little cartridge.

For deer, moose, and bear in the Northeast, 150 yards is plenty, in fact most shots will be well under 100 yards. But out in the wide open spaces, pistol rounds are sub-optimal IMHO, although, the 460 seems to get velocities and trajectories using the lighter 200 gr FTX bullet that are very rifle-like.

Nevertheless, I am very disturbed about my growing interest in the .499HE....

petemi · « **Reply #17 on:** February 13, 2012, 03:50:14 AM »

"Nevertheless, I am very disturbed about my growing interest in the .499HE...."

Not me.....I gave up pain for Lent

Pete

quickdtoo · « **Reply #18 on:** February 13, 2012, 05:13:41 AM »

Quote from: RPRNY on February 13, 2012, 03:39:36 AM

The cannelure in a pistol round is apparently very bad ballistic ju-ju. Not entirely apples to apples, but the Hornady 300gr FTX (.500) bullet for the 500 S&W has a BC of .200 and an SD of .171.

Like I said before, it's not much better than a round ball and as Pete said, drops like a rock, the drop isn't the only issue, the velocity and energy also decrease dramatically after 100yds. Based on John Taffin's shooting report on the 500 Handi with a muzzle velocity of 2248fps for the 300gr LE ammo with the 300gr FTX, muzzle energy is 3366ft/lbs, at 50yds it's down to 2796, 2306 @ 100yds, 1543 @ 200yds and just 1041 at 300yds.

Tim

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_1_53/ai_n16866654/pg_2/

http://www.hornady.com/cgi-bin/ball10.cgi?firearm=Rifle&desc=300gr+FTX+.500%22&wght=300&coef=.200&vel=2248&sight=1.5&temp=59&barom=29.53&zero=0&wspd=0&calcbutton=Calculate

quickdtoo · « **Reply #19 on:** February 13, 2012, 05:38:18 AM »

Quote from: 8uck5nort on February 13, 2012, 02:07:40 AM

I live and hunt in Indiana. We are very restricted on our calibers foir deer. So far the only viable option I see that is commercially available to reach out to 300 yards is the 500 S W. It is a definite 150 yrd and in rifle. I opted to give this a try because big and slow even at that range should (at least that is my theory) have enough kinetic energy to deliver a kill shot granting this rifle can prove accurate enough (with some bedding and optics) to hit a non moving target at 300 yards. No run and gun here. Will I actually ever shoot something at that range? Probably not, most of the hunting takes place in the 100 yrd and under ranges, but I want that experience and reasonable belief in my ability to do so. Plus it will just be outright fun to try. I will kill a lot of paper proving or disproving it!

I also want to see how it will stack up against the 357 max at its maximum range for a comparision.

If you want a true 300yd deer round, try the 35 Rem Short with Super 35 Rem handloads, or even better, the 358 Win Short, you can read all about them in the Indiana Hunting forum.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php#c13

Dinny · « **Reply #20 on:** February 13, 2012, 06:08:43 AM »

I think a .460 S&W reamed .45LC barrel would be a better choice than the 500 S&W at those distances.

Thanks, Dinny