Author Topic: deer hunting off an AR15 platform? (Read 5474 times)

Lee Robinson · « **on:** February 12, 2012, 05:45:39 PM »

Which round/caliber would you choose?

cjclemens · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2012, 06:09:18 PM »

A lot of people here will say that .223 is enough to kill a deer. I wouldnt dispute that, but I'd add the caveat that with smaller caliber rifles, marksmanship becomes more and more important. Bullet selection is critical as well. With .22's being a popular varminter size, there are a whole lot of thin jacketed, fragmenting bullets on the market. you'll need to make sure you're using one that's designed for expansion and weight retention. That being said, my personal choice for a deer cartridge would be just about anything larger than a .223 - I prefer something that's going to make a better wound channel and cause more internal damage just in case my aim is a little off. You can get an AR in 7.62x39, but the whole tapered case in a straightish magazine is a problem that will never be legitamately resolved, in my opinion. However, it probably works OK in a lower capacity hunting magazine. Other cartriges that would work are 300 AAC Blackout and 6.8 SPC. Both are designed to add knockdown power to the AR platform, so I assume it would work similarly for deer. Unfortunately I live in a slug state, so I wont be getting to test that theory myself.

Cheesehead · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2012, 07:06:16 PM »

I have killed deer, in their tracks, with my AR15 in 6.8 SPC. Lots of .277 bullets to choose from. I recommend it.

Cheese

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #3 on:** February 13, 2012, 12:37:00 AM »

ive got an ar10 308 i used one year for hunting. Found it just to heavy to haul around the woods all day. I also have a 762x39 ar that has seen action in the deer woods. Its much lighter, very accurate and kills well. I dont agree with cjclemens and think alot of the badmouthing on 762x39 ars is just internet experts that copy and paste someone elses theroys. Mine runs just as well as my 223 ars. that been said i agree that if it strickly going to be a whitetail rig the 6.8 is hard to beat. It has some ballistics advantage over the 762x39. Accuracy is close but probably the winner there would be the 6.8 too. Problem is that if the gun is going to do double duty as a shtf gun too or if you plan to shoot the snot out of it like i do most of my ars ammo is very expensive and ammo and brass are hard to find. A guy can take a 762x39 hunting one day and the next grab a sleave of 500 rounds of wolf and have a ball. If shtf ever did happen its going to be relitively easy to find 762 or 223 ammo but good luck finding a singe round of 6.8. Youll have a nice wall decoration but thats about it. Just for your info ive shot a few deer now with 223 ars using 60 grain partitions and they worked just fine out to 200 yards. So youve got to look at what you will expect out of the gun. If its going to be your primary deer rifle and you dont have illusions of using it for anything else the 6.8 is probably king. If you want it to do double duty the 762x39 is probably you best bet. If its going to be used occasionaly to kill a couple does at realitively short range buy yourself a good old standard 223 ar and dont worry about what some internet expert tells you about it being underpowered. That round has sure take its share of 200 lb living targets and deer dont shoot back.

Bart Solo · « **Reply #4 on:** February 13, 2012, 03:12:30 AM »

I think everybody agrees the 6.8 SPC is a great deer round, but I have seen a lot of talk on the Black Hole Weaponry forum about the 6mm X 45. Is that a viable deer cartridge? How about the .30 Remington AR? Of course the 6 X 45 is a wildcat round. Only reloaders need apply, but the brass is made simply by up necking a 223 cartridge on a sizing die.
I am still not convinced about the 223 on deer, but I have met a lot of younger guys who swear it works well, especially with proper bullet placement.

cjclemens · « **Reply #5 on:** February 13, 2012, 04:05:05 AM »

Quote

I dont agree with cjclemens and think alot of the badmouthing on 762x39 ars is just internet experts that copy and paste someone elses theroys.

I only copy and paste my own theories.

Dezynco · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2012, 02:44:27 PM »

I don't start out the door to shoot a deer with a .223, but I know I will do the job with a good bullet and a well placed shot. However, I can testify that the 300 whisper (aka 300 fireball,300 blackout, whatever. ) works great out to 200 yards. There's also the 450 Bushmaster, 6.8spc , 6.5 Grendel, 458 Socom, and the 50 Beowulf that will work according to the range you intend to shoot. I think there's a 6mm PPC, and a few others out there that will work!

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #7 on:** February 14, 2012, 12:54:55 AM »

had a buddy who built his son a 6x45 on a mini mauser for a first deer rifle. Kid killed lots of deer with that gun and it was just passed down to his son. Im sure it would do just fine out to 200 yards with good shot placement. Im sure the .30 rem would work well too. Its a bit more powerful then the 762x39 so it sure should kill a deer. I have no experience with it though and havent even shot one round of it so i really cant say there. Again id worry about being able to obtain brass or ammo. Its even harder to find the 6.8 stuff.

Quote from: Bart Solo on February 13, 2012, 03:12:30 AM

I think everybody agrees the 6.8 SPC is a great deer round, but I have seen a lot of talk on the Black Hole Weaponry forum about the 6mm X 45. Is that a viable deer cartridge? How about the .30 Remington AR? Of course the 6 X 45 is a wildcat round. Only reloaders need apply, but the brass is made simply by up necking a 223 cartridge on a sizing die.
I am still not convinced about the 223 on deer, but I have met a lot of younger guys who swear it works well, especially with proper bullet placement.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #8 on:** February 14, 2012, 01:48:33 AM »

I tried a 6.8 SPC with a 20 inch heavy bbl. The round is great the gun is heavy. Then tried a 6.8 with a 16 inch bbl its better. We walk alot when hunting . Seldom is the day we sit in a stand. Even if a 223 was legal here (its not) it would not be a good choice as most of our shots are at running deer. Also where we hunt there is alot of posted land where the land owner will refuse letting you retrive a deer. So we tend to use guns that will stop a deer .

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #9 on:** February 15, 2012, 01:22:09 AM »

You want to hunt with a club? i carried my ar10 around for one deer season. NEVER AGAIN! I can see your point about the 223 not being right for every hunting situation. It works well hunting out of a blind on a field when shots wont be much past a 200 yards and you can watch the deer till it drops but hunting like your doing id want something more too.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #10 on:** February 15, 2012, 01:26:37 AM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on February 15, 2012, 01:22:09 AM

You want to hunt with a club? i carried my ar10 around for one deer season. NEVER AGAIN!
I agree 100% Tried the M1-A also for a couple years.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2012, 12:33:13 AM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on February 13, 2012, 12:37:00 AM

ive shot a few deer now with 223 ars using 60 grain partitions and they worked just fine out to 200 yards.

That's good to know. Just what I have reloaded, not that I am going to hunt with the AR. My sons will though. I do have several Handi-rifles in that caliber which, when tuned for accuracy, will be used.

Inherent accuracy in the AR leads to shot placement as the critical component in the hunt. Well, the deer have to participate too. Letting the boys take the AR's to the woods to hunt helps gets them out of bed, so it's good.

For the Record: Since the caliber's inception, DNR & FWC Departments, NASA and USAF Security dispatch research and nuisance deer, by the 10's of thousands over years, in and out of season, at night, by spotlight, with the 223 caliber. They may be sharing the responsibility with bolt action rifles as the "launch platform", but the caliber works, very well, on both deer and hogs. Reduced report, reduced recoil, inherent accuracy, swift follow-up shots, and cheap ammunition are some of the decision factors in choosing the 223.

The AR is a heavy rifle, rugged, and made for warfighter use. Sitting with one might not be too bad, but stalking through the woods all day would be tiring.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2012, 12:43:54 AM »

I dont find the ar15 to heavy to tote around the woods. Its the ar10 that is such a club! One thing i have to add about the 60 grain partitions. they have worked well on deer but I never came across a majic load for them. Ive tried them in a half a dozen differnt ars and about 2 inch at a 100 yards is what to expect. Ive got one gun that will do 1.5 with one load but most loads hover around 2 inch. Plenty good enough for the range your going to want to shoot deer with a 223 though. Personaly any more then 200 yards and im grabbing a bigger gun.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2012, 03:32:25 AM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on February 18, 2012, 12:43:54 AM

Personaly any more then 200 yards and im grabbing a bigger gun.

Yessir. To that I agree. Most of my tree stand ranges for hunting include potential shots to 250 yards - so the 223 is marginal or range limited at best. However turkeys at 220 yards would be no match, or shots at smaller hogs (if they are still), or neck shooting does if the gun's accuracy is tight wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities.

My M-16 has not been shot for accuracy, yet. I reloaded a bunch of 223's on the Piggyback 2 and, having fun, without really trying, shot a 30-round clip off of the bench in rapid fire to about 2 inches at 100 yards. I was thoroughly impressed with the guns inherent accuracy and think I can wring tighter 1-shot-at-a-time, taking my time, groups out of it. But it is just so dang fun to sling lead with that I am not yet ready to sit quietly or to test the ultimate accuracy with it. I will get around to that some day...when the grin fades from my face I think.

For hunting though, I would ordinarily weigh each and every charge, neck size only from fire formed cases, etc. Not necessarily fodder for the AR really.

Hillbilly Jim · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2012, 12:10:39 PM »

Landowner
Where did you find a M-16?

Land_Owner · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2012, 02:44:16 PM »

Um, I shoulda characterized mine as an AR-15 (M-16 clone).

WNY_Whitetailer · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2012, 07:22:57 PM »

I just finished my AR in 6.8. I am going to be using it this coming deer season. I have two other AR15 rifles in 5.56 that I wouldn't use on deer...Personal preference.

The 6.8 should be the cats meow when loaded with 110 grain Hornady BTHP rounds.

Sent from my ADR8995 using Tapatalk

VA Rifleman · « **Reply #17 on:** February 24, 2012, 04:22:41 PM »

My Bushmaster V match 5.56 mm AR has taken 14 deer so far. All with 55 gn FMG. The green tip ammo is like shooting deer with an ice pick. Only tried it once and went back to 55 gn. Havn't tried expanding bullets as I was looking for penatration and didn't want the bullet to fragment on a shoulder.

A two point combat sling works great. Don't notice the weight. As others have noted, bullet placement is everything. But then that is about true no matter what caliber.

This year, I'll try a .308 AR with an M4 stock and 16" barrel. These rifles are fun and something different to use while also giving the user more stick time with something that
may be used for large varmits.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #18 on:** February 25, 2012, 11:47:22 AM »

VA Rifleman, you're using the wrong bullet if you do not want fragmentation. http://www.brassfetcher.com/US%20M193%20bare%20gelatin.pdf
Plenty of studies out there to show what 55 gr fmj rounds do in gelatin and people. Deer shouldn't be a whole lot different. The range they do it at is 140-150m and under for 16" barrel and 190-200m and under for 20" barrel. If you want one that holds together, here is a pretty good write up.
http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm#.223

jmayton · « **Reply #19 on:** February 25, 2012, 03:08:22 PM »

In .223, with the right bullet, an AR makes a fine whitetail gun. . .and considering what it's done on hogs, I wouldn't hesitate to take a Mulie or similar with it if I didn't have anything else. And, my M4 with scope and 30rd mag (usually carry a 20 for hunting) still weighs less than either of my bolt guns. Actually, the only centerfire I have that weighs less is my M1 Carbine.

But, if getting one primarily for hunting, I'd go with the 6.8SPC or a 6.5 Grendel. If you wanted something with a bit more punch, go with the 300AAC Blackout (well-built uppers and available ammo).

Just my $.02.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #20 on:** February 27, 2012, 01:59:41 AM »

Quote from: Land_Owner on February 18, 2012, 02:44:16 PM

Um, I shoulda characterized mine as an AR-15 (M-16 clone).

The AR-10 came first then the AR-15 then the M-16 , The Air Force got the AR-15 first with out forward assist. Then the AR-15 was made auto and the military called it the M-16 which makes the M-16 a AR-15 variant

Bart Solo · « **Reply #21 on:** February 27, 2012, 06:57:11 AM »

I have encountered a lot of guys lately who hunt deer with their trusty AR 15 in 223. Mostly they are young vets who are very familar with the AR platform and its limitations. They hunt within those limitatioins. They don't have any reluctance about using their AR, but I am an old guy and something of a traditionalist. I think I will stick with my regular 30-06 this fall. It has fewer limitations.
I guess I am trying to say that a lot of hunters I know have proven that if used properly and with the right bullet the AR 15 in 223 is adequate for whitetail, but I still don't feel comfortable.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #22 on:** February 27, 2012, 08:22:36 AM »

the 223 is not legal in Va. to hunt deer. I tried the 6.8 SPC . I guess the M-4 style gun works ok if componets are picked to be light . If you grew up with lever or bolt guns the masg hanging down gets in the way . Guess it takes a few seasons to get it down pat.

VA Rifleman · « **Reply #23 on:** February 28, 2012, 02:33:32 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on February 27, 2012, 08:22:36 AM

the 223 is not legal in Va. to hunt deer. I tried the 6.8 SPC . I guess the M-4 style gun works ok if componets are picked to be light . If you grew up with lever or bolt guns the masg hanging down gets in the way . Guess it takes a few seasons to get it down pat.

Hi Shootall, Yes agreed. The deer were taken in SC. Another reason for the .308 AR. More agreement with the nice balance point on the levers. (An 1895 is my favorite deer rifle). And that 20 rd mag does tends to alter what otherwise might be a nice low forearm rest.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** February 29, 2012, 01:45:53 AM »

If you haven't got the AR-10 look at a 6.8SPC . same size as 223 . After hunting with one I would offer the short bbl. works best.

454Puma · « **Reply #25 on:** February 29, 2012, 05:56:43 PM »

Though the 5.56mm will kill deer I upgraded to a 300 Blk. Simple just add a upper and your done- already cast for .30 cal so it was the logical choice. I just reform undersized FC brass and I was in business. Best way to think of the 300 is a 30-30 in a AR platform. I don't think anyone will argue that a good 130 gr SP will take just about any deer.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** March 01, 2012, 01:17:05 AM »

6.8 SPC is a fractory load

made for the AR platform.

Chupathingy · « **Reply #27 on:** April 28, 2012, 09:07:18 AM »

Is it an ideal weapon for dedicated medium game hunting? I think we all can agree that the answer to that question is a "No", however, is it capable in experienced hands at "normal" hunting distances? I adamantly say YES. There is nothing indigenous to the state of Texas that can't be killed with the quickness with a properly placed, properly selected projectile launched from a .223.

I have taken many largish hogs with my AR in 6x45 using the 75gr Hornady HP, which at 6x45 velocities performs much like a controlled expansion projectile. I also like the 80gr partition in the 6x45 as a "do all" projectile.

Chupa

Cheesehead · « **Reply #28 on:** April 28, 2012, 02:40:06 PM »

I would like an upper in 450 Bushmaster or 458 SOCOM for deer hunting.

Cheese

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #29 on:** April 29, 2012, 01:44:42 AM »

now those will get the job done as long as you dont stretch the range. My wife shot a 1600lb water buffalo with my 50 beowolf at about 40 yards and it did the job on that buffalo so deer would be a cinch!

Quote from: Cheesehead on April 28, 2012, 02:40:06 PM

I would like an upper in 450 Bushmaster or 458 SOCOM for deer hunting.

Cheese