Author Topic: Travel rifle (Read 3567 times)

SHOOTALL · « **on:** February 14, 2012, 02:10:25 AM »

In an effort to be armed many travel with a handgun . Many states allow those with a CCW permit to carry in their state when visiting. That has been a good change for travlers in the states that allow it. Some still would like a long gun. Some places don't allow handguns still , northern states and Canada for example. Some require a reason Canada does . I have hunted there several times and had to tell them where I was staying and the reason for the shotgun. I have heard a rifle is more difficult but I have no experince there. I do know that in some states the bolt must be removed from a rifle or shotgun to transport. Also with interstate travel if it is legal to have a gun where you start your trip and end your trip federal law says you can transport thru. areas where you are not allowed to have it. What happend if you are in an accident ? or have truck trouble ?
Lets consider the rifle . What would be a good travel rifle ? What purpose would it be for ? ( you may end up in an unfriendly place and be questioned as to its purpose). It may be taken , police knowing the court cost to get it back would be more than replacement cost. We all know those uninformed will see a black rifle as taboo.
So what would make a good travel rifle ? What would be a good cover reason to have it ? Ammo ?
I would suggest a plain bolt action in 308 would be a good choice. If taken/stolen by police or thief the cost is limited . Iron sights would be good . 16-18 inch bbl would be good as it would fit in a smaller case , even some luggage now has a gun case built in the bottom for short guns . Excuse to have it other than 2nd amnd. maybe you are trying to work in a hog hunt if your travels take you to an area where hog hunting exist. (Note sporting clays always seemed a good excuse for a shotgun).
Even have paper work on a suggested hunt . (with sporting clays it was easy to have a start time lined up then cancel). A hog hunt would cost to cancel.
Ammo can be picked up on the trip if need be.

any ideas ?

max1138 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 14, 2012, 04:57:32 AM »

for a compact travel rifle, I would go with a handi-rifle in 308, iron sights mounted with removable scope on rail. fixed 4 or 6x.
Itll break down into 24" or less with the barrel cut down to 20"-18"
ammo is available everywhere
and will take anything in north america
cost would be very moderate, 250 for a used rifle another 100 for a scope of acceptable but not outstanding, quality (im not putting a monarch gold on something that might get stolen/confiscated)
find a small case that will fit the disassembled rifle and it doesnt look like a gun case to potential thieves/questioners.
you could take it on any hunt conceivable and expect to do well.

Graybeard · « **Reply #2 on:** February 14, 2012, 06:27:58 AM »

If primary purpose for having the rifle is self protection in places where a handgun might be illegal then I'd say a lever action in .357 magnum would be an excellent choice. Holds a bunch of ammo and the ammo isn't all that heavy if you want to take an exra box along with you.

If you might be hunting or are in fact traveling to hunt them just take the rifle you want to hunt along. A lever action in .44 magnum or .45 Colt would be adequate for hunting most anything in the US within reasonable distance.

But the way this is posed and where you posted it makes me think the purpose is not a hunting trip but rather for self defense when traveling. A lever action rifle in something like .357 or a pump shotgun would be an excellent self defense weapon and other than a very few locations wouldn't be frowned on too badly so long as you aren't out walking down the road with it. These days that would be OK in some states but not in others and for sure not in very many cities.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #3 on:** February 14, 2012, 07:23:21 AM »

Self defense would be the main thought. The lever gun would be nice but in places where the bolt has to be removed from the gun it would take longer ( Maryland is such a state I have been told). My idea is to have a better weapon than a handgun if another 9/11 took place and you were on the road. Ruger does offer both 44mag and 357 mag mod 77's .

Couger · « **Reply #4 on:** February 14, 2012, 09:52:43 AM »

Don't be too "limited" in your considerations, gentlemen!

Been awhile since I looked at a preparedness tape I have, that it was put together by a fellow who lived in London-vicinity during WWII, bombed out of his home a couple times as a boy. Went into the British military for a career and spent lots of time around the world in many countries.

[~~Robert~~ Ted Wright] used to speak to companies and organizations on attitude and mind-set, as well as actual steps to take during a disaster (the company managment wanted doers-self thinkers where he generally spoke, not 'sheeple'). One example he advocated, staying in one's car-capsule (awaiting relief) unless safety demanded the vehicle finally be abandoned ...... (not explaining this well!) Of course the vehicle was stocked with 3 or 4 days of water and emergency food at all times! Blankets, coats or clothes too.

One thing he talked about is if folks had to walk home from work/being in the city, but dressed to the nines in a fancy suit, or fancy dress, heels and jewelry for women, such folks could like like $$$ and a fat target 'real quick!'

Instead Mr. Wright advocated having some very 'blue-collar' worn, even soiled clothes to change into (including sturdy, proven footware) if such a scenario ever confronted a person trying to get home that had a ways to go!

Even "looking" hunched over, dejected, depressed, was part of the costume he advocated. (mental preparedness however, is ALWAYS to be kept razor sharp!!)

My point in all this is to suggest what a truck gun in the form of a beater .303 British SMLE might look like? I have considered such a gun - if I was fairly sure authorities would frown on well equipped (repeater-type) weapons, but might ignore a beater-cheap antique boltgun? (how many present LEO's or fedcoats[/u] know the SMLE equipped the British Army for 80-90 years or more?

"Fastest" bolt-rifle in the world, wasn't it?)

The specific SMLE I (first) wanted was a [modern Indian built] Ishapore in .308 Win (fixed 12-shot magazine) versus the better known .303 (fixed 10-shot mag), but either could resemble a rifle in costume, like the dejected hiker-worker trying to get home during a crisis (I should add, having drab, really worn clothes and "pack" or bundle was part od the ruse, with nothing fancy or bright colors).

Such a rifle in .303B or .308Win could still provide a heckuva lot of fire power to someone trained to use the SMLE! Would still be very sturdy AND VERY SERVICEABLE, but could be found and purchased for 'cheap' and not look like much to anyone looking to steal or confescate sexy, high-priced items or dangerous semi-auto pieces, etc,. etc.

(I doubt any other former military boltguns like the rooshen 7.62X54R Mosan-Nagant 31/44's would work as well even in ultra short carbine form!)

I understand about having a 16" beater-lever-gun, and in .357M or .44M with a pile of ammo, but would a beater SMLE with an 18" barrel be a cheaper, but still rebust choice? I would think the leverguns would be pricey, regardles of their condition - most of them.

Other ideas? Criticisms?

Maybe Don Heath will see my comments and 'comment!'

I like Don's non-American, non-conventional (to me) points of view usually shaped by his personal experiences!

Comparatively, I and most of us here (and in the USA) have been 'sheltered' where we lived existed, versus Don's stomping grounds.

pab1 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 14, 2012, 01:01:08 PM »

Quote from: Couger on February 14, 2012, 09:52:43 AM

Other ideas? Criticisms?

When looking for a survival gun I would choose one that ammo is readily available for. At least in this area, 303 ammo is not very common. I would also lean toward a .44 mag lever gun or Ruger 77/44 bolt action with a .44 mag revolver as back-up.

Couger · « **Reply #6 on:** February 14, 2012, 10:16:45 PM »

Pab1, your comment makes a lot of sense if you need to procure ammo. but keep in mind this thread is for a 'travel gun' (not necessarily a first choice survival piece).

Four points I took for granted when considering the standard English SMLE's; #1 in my rig I would make certain to have 200-300 rounds for that rifle (or a full load out for whatever weapon I chose), whatever could be carried reasonably without having to give up my water, my food, binoes, first aid supplies, bedroll, or whatever else was going in my ruck.

#2 Using a certain model for a truck gun doesn't mean one has to stick with that particular gun after getting safely home! My truck guns might be items I can afford to loose, easier than more quality and expensive pieces at home! I wouldn't want to have a $1200 AR (or larger and longer M1A) that got lost/stolen or confescated, if an SMLE or even a Mini-14 or SU-16 could be procured for much less. But even the Mini-14 and esp the SU-16 are pricey next to two or three SMLE's! Ishapore's are more expensive than a std SMLE, but having the .308 might be a huge advantage (and solution) for some users. #3 And of course reloading might alleviate the ammo supply challenges too.

If I had equipped myself with an Ishapore, I might have eliminated the [required] need for a handgun, altho having a wheelgun and levergun in the same round I agree opens all kinds of possibilities (and other solutions) as well.

[/color]Digressing: I would hate to be stuck in the big bad, ugly cities if when all the scatology hit the ventillator during a SHTF crisis! But reading about such individuals who had that as their only choice might be VERY interesting too. (in what they'd do, but also how they decided to "cope" with living in the city. ***

*** I'm not from small town or rural America, but my dad was and I hunt and fish and reload regularly.

I still say there are some viable and really good gun choices still out there, that could be VERY serviceable in an emergency but could be made to look like second rate shooters (or junk) if NEED BE, my whole reason to mention the SMLE. I think the SMLE in particular oofers unique advantages.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #7 on:** February 15, 2012, 01:00:37 AM »

I agree about the possible loss of the weapon. One consideration when walking home is to as you note look like you have nothing. The rifle should be hid in many places as it may be taken even if you are stlii in the truck. An old duffle bag might work to hide a short rifle like a model 7 youth gun , add a slip on recoil pad to extend stock later while shooting.

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #8 on:** February 15, 2012, 09:17:52 AM »

If a serious enough FAN scenario happens that martial law is declared you DO NOT want to be observed with a long gun, you will be detained/confiscation.

However, barring ML, I would want something.

Travelling within my state I am able to carry with my CPL but often carry my M-6 scout (breaks down) or .30-30 with me. The idea of a NEF or H&R in your choice of chambering is a good idea as it can be broken down and concealed in a pack if the surroundings dictate. No guns in a shelter either. Always be prepared with a bag of good stuff you can carry.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #9 on:** February 15, 2012, 09:30:18 AM »

good point

also years ago there was a writer Finn A..... that put out an article about rifles chambered in less that standard cal. His idea was as stores are looted the odd stuff will be left behind as it will be useless to most people.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #10 on:** February 15, 2012, 10:05:48 AM »

My wife wants to travel around the country if and when I retire. I have thought about this. A Handi rifle with a shotgun barrel would be nice. I have a Ruger .22 with a folding stock, but it might not be legal in some states. I read about a guy in California that took a Marlin .44 mag, cut the barrel down to 18" and hollowed out the stock to carry extra ammo. He had to cut down the magazine tube also, and it only held 5-6 rounds. Do you guys know how long overall a rifle has to be to be legal. I saw a .44 Marlin someone cut down at a gun show. Barrel was 18" and he cut the stock off right behind the pistol grip and put a pad on it. I think it was like 24-25". Guy said it was a legal rifle. If it is that short, it could fit in a backpack or duffle bag. The .357 sounds good since ammo is probably more plentiful, and can shoot .38's also. I picked up a beater .44 mag Marlin from a guy. Stock was sanded down and never refinished, and had scratches on it. It works though. Paid $150 for it because he had a 1-4 power Leopold scope on it. Took the scope off. Going to put a ghost ring on the rear. I though I would use it as a travel gun, and maybe a "Snake Charmer" Handi since it is also short. I didn't know about having to take a bolt out to travel. Would a lock suffice? It would be quicker to remove and ready for fire.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #11 on:** February 15, 2012, 10:14:33 AM »

Rifle has to be 26 inches . bbl 16 . Shotgun is 28 with 18 inch bbl. Even a folding stock gun must meet those mesurements when folded into shortest length. Best way to mesure is with action closed and measure from bolt face to muzzle using a wooden dowel or skinny ruler.
There are laws in some states about hunting with a simi auto to consider.
Back to GB's idea of a lever action a break down gun would be nice but expensive.

The main concept is no laws broken and not attention drawn .

Couger · « **Reply #12 on:** February 15, 2012, 12:50:47 PM »

Most folks know about the M10/22's and their near limitless accessories and means to modify them for a multitude of uses and shooters (who come in all shapes sizes, mindsets!).

That said, I haven't bragged about a Marlin Papoose I got lucky and bought. Compared to the Explorer/AR-7's, the Papoose is built much more solidly and has a much better design in how the barrel detaches/reattaches to the receiver. Don't overlook the Papoose if considering buying an AR-7! Plus the Papoose can be made to break down into an even smaller package than the AR-7, esp with a modified, and "trimmer" cut-down stock. Weights are similar. Also my Papoose may not float, but I don't drop my guns in water either!

As for a Handi-Rifle combo, I would choose a .30/06 barrel with 12ga barrel for universal all around use in the USA, along with a .22LR Versa pack barrel if one was lucky enough to find one of those!!

Some folks might chime in and say their .308 Handi barrel is the cat's meow, of their .30-30 or .223 barrels! And much can be said to promote the 20 gauge in a versatile shotshell. All those are good choices depending on individual needs and choices and opportunities to procure.

By all means, each "individual" should get (beg, borrow or steal - if necessary? ) whatever they might need to prepare for doomsday ..... But the number one sellers for big game ammo are the .30-30 and .30/06. And the .223Remy for a round in that class. 12ga is still number one seller in shotguns and ammo .....

I previously brought up the Hi Point [carbines] because their design would lend themselves well for many of the scenarios discussed at GBO, whether or not they are durable enough or can be found easily enough to buy?

Previously it was mentioned that legally defined [by ATF] a rifle must have a minimum 16" barrel and a shotgun must have 18 inches. And dropping a dowel down a gun barrel with action closed is how those measurements are taken. That's what I've always read too.

But I thought minimum legal length on a long gun was 27inches! Now i need to check those numbers and get that 'data' squared away in my head!!

I mentioned on another thread that agreeing to "define" something facilitates "discussion!"

What exactly defines "travel" when picking a weapon to put in one's rig?

I've seen [minimalist] Handi-Rifles in .223 or .22-250 some western motorists carried to have a gun always with them to take coyotes rodents when the opportunities popped up.

Others have thrown an SKS and a few hundred rounds in their car trunk "to always have with them."

"Travel guns" to me sound like emergency guns. Cheaper than most favorite other pieces, but dependable, lightweight, carbine in the weapon if it isn't a pistol oe revolver, etc.

If I could design and build my own travel or emergency gun, I like the idea of having a semi-auto carbine[/b] that could shoot (from Glock-style mags) in .357 magnum, .41 magnum and .44 magnum! I realize their 'revolver rims' make those cartridges poor choices for most semi-auto designs that like smooth rimless rounds! But i like those catridges for their power and ability to reach at least 100yds and still "stop" a real threat and attacker.

The Marlin Camp Carbines showed promise, altho they were chambered in rather weak anemic rounds for anything much past normal handgun ranges!

I would hate having to face someone who was after me, who was armed with an AR or or a rifle. and all i had was a 9mm or .40, or .357 revolver. At least a semi-auto .357M or .44M might make the other guy think twice. (but these "ideas" of course don't exist!).

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #13 on:** February 15, 2012, 01:25:24 PM »

I had a Marlin Papose one time, but sold it, wish I hadn't. It came with a floating nylon case. So in the case, it will float. Good carry gun as well as a Rossi with multiple barrels or Handi. A centerfire rifle would be handy if you had a short stock or folding stock. The Ruger 44mag auto would be a good choice in a carbine if you can find one. They made it in a bolt and lever gun one time also.

tacklebury · « **Reply #14 on:** February 15, 2012, 04:28:01 PM »

I love my Papoose. Was the first firearm I ever purchased. I have always wanted to find a Springfield M6 Scout though. THAT is the ultimate imo with it's folding body. Especially with today's Winchester Personal Defense .410 loads with the disks and balls, it'll handle lots. I've also looked at the Rossi Circuit Judge. With it's .45 colt/.410 capability, it's pretty useful weapon. It is limited in range of course, but for most hunting ranges to 100 yards, it'd be great. Get a set of .22 chamber adapters for it and you can use it for close in small game shooting too more economically.

http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Default.aspx?item=SCJ4510SS&mfg=Rossi&mdlno=Circuit+Judge
http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Default.aspx?item=SCJ4510&mfg=Rossi&mdlno=Circuit+Judge
5 pack of these makes it a 5 shot .22 also.
http://www.gunadapters.com/410-to-22-lr-5-pack-for-a-3-inch-chamber/

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #15 on:** February 16, 2012, 09:06:11 AM »

Cougar , travel is travel to any where you can have a weapon legally. It would go in the hotel room, camper or tent as you retired for the evening. It would be there if problems arose or an opertunity to shoot/hunt came along. It would be of a style that would not raise problems . It would be a true rifle ( if not a weapon such as a Bretta Storm would work.). It would fit a wide application with a narrow discription .
I would rather have a gun that has no detachable mag so it can't get lost. It should have iron sights made of steel no plastic sights. A scope is ok if it can be removed easy. Synthetic over wood would be nice . Provided with a sling , ammo carrier ( so some would be with rifle when in use But maybe not in transport depending on laws ).Light and thin .

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #16 on:** February 16, 2012, 09:12:45 AM »

Sounds like a stainless Marlin 44mag or 357 mag with a third party synthetic stock and forearm. Tub mag, so multiple shots are available. Looks like a "cowboy" gun. You can get or make shotshells for it. .44 or .38 specials with lead bullets could shoot small game. Heavier jacketed mag bullets could kill large game.

myronman3 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2012, 04:35:14 PM »

a 357 lever or even a 30/30.

Hooker · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2012, 06:59:26 PM »

Quote from: myronman3 on February 23, 2012, 04:35:14 PM

a 357 lever or even a 30/30.

+1
Add a bullet mould and a Ideal reloading tool

Pat

charles p · « **Reply #19 on:** February 24, 2012, 02:52:00 PM »

Gun manufacturers appreciate your imagination and fears.

Hooker · « **Reply #20 on:** February 24, 2012, 03:12:24 PM »

Quote from: charles p on February 24, 2012, 02:52:00 PM

Gun manufacturers appreciate your imagination and fears.

Not nearly as much as tyrants and criminals will appreciate your unpreparedness

myronman3 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 24, 2012, 05:51:51 PM »

any reason to buy a gun is a good reason.

Couger · « **Reply #22 on:** February 24, 2012, 10:46:23 PM »

Is anyone familiar with Mel Tappan?

He's one of the first authors who would have written about "travel guns" and what choices would make a 'good one.' but that was 20-25 years ago!

Actually he could probably recommend "good choices" for nowadays if he was still alive.

How the country and the world has changed since his first book 1974-1976.!

teamnelson · « **Reply #23 on:** February 25, 2012, 05:37:25 AM »

The stock on the 92 clones is held on by 2 standard cross tipped screws, when its removed, its about 26" long for a 20" barreled version. Quick and easy to take apart, and I'm sure if you really wanted to, you could put a knurled head screw in there instead. Use for SD really defines the problem.

jlwilliams · « **Reply #24 on:** February 25, 2012, 06:33:23 AM »

I really think that the classic takedown lever action rifles are a technological high point in the 'traveling rifle'. A takedown with the barrel off satisfies the most stringent requirements of not loaded and opened action and can fairly easily be made ready. They are small and are mostly built in good, time tested game rounds. A 30-30 or a 45-70 or whatever you want (even high velocity bottle neck rounds in the BLR) in a takedown lever gun is a practical choise. I'll even say it's practicool.

tacklebury · « **Reply #25 on:** February 25, 2012, 08:58:59 AM »

Quote from: charles p on February 24, 2012, 02:52:00 PM

Gun manufacturers appreciate your imagination and fears.

Since the 1970's biker gangs and prison system attendees have had plans in effect to "take over" the US if something were to happen that limited the ability for our police or military to defend against them. There are huge bands of illegals in the SW of our country who are causing no end of issues. There are Neo-Nazi gangs and groups as well as Militants and KKK who want a piece of the action. I don't know that all the planning on one mans part can overcome all these issues, not to mention the plain old Bloods-n-Crips branches, but I plan to do what I can to ensure my family will be as safe as I can make them. Talking over disaster or dangers is a good way to think of things you missed on your own or to get ideas for things you can do further. Living with your head in the sand is fine, UNTIL the SHTF, then you will pull it out to find that the world is no longer the safe, cream puff place you've associated it to be. I'm not trying to pick on anyone, but if you don't want to read about the possible issues, don't check out these forums. Seems simple.

Couger · « **Reply #26 on:** February 25, 2012, 09:56:14 AM »

You said alot in one paragraph, TB.

A Browning BLR-takedown might make a handy rifle that was portable and didn't take up much room (hard Browning cases however, while artful are expensive!). Too bad the BLR's 'clip' isn't detachable from the outside. A 10-round mag would indeed be 'handy!' In .308?

I was surprised an ad recently caught my attention, for the new Savage M25 'walking varmint' .223 boltguns. They take detachable AR magazines, should please someone.

jlwilliams · « **Reply #27 on:** February 25, 2012, 11:46:05 AM »

The M1 carbine is another classic self defense gun that doesn't weigh you down. The paratrooper folding stock version folds op pretty small. Originals are outlandishly expensive but the new Auto Ordnance copies aren't too bad. The M1 Carbine is kind of an early day "PDW".

gdog · « **Reply #28 on:** February 25, 2012, 02:39:55 PM »

Got an old Sears lever gun in 30/30. I is basically a model 94, likely made by Winchester for Sears. It is my get home rifle. The stock was rough when I got it so I sprayed it with bed liner and then som OD Krylon. When I get to the house, it won't be my primary defense gun, but it will still be a good back up. I like the caliber, you can find it most anywhere.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #29 on:** February 27, 2012, 01:54:05 AM »

Quote from: jlwilliams on February 25, 2012, 11:46:05 AM

The M1 carbine is another classic self defense gun that doesn't weigh you down. The paratrooper folding stock version folds op pretty small. Originals are outlandishly expensive but the new Auto Ordnance copies aren't too bad. The M1 Carbine is kind of an early day "PDW".

good idea.