Unarmed man killed by police while holding baby.

[powderman]

SCOTTSDALE, AZ (KPNX) -- An Arizona man was shot to death by police Tuesday while holding his grandson.
Police say 50-year-old John Loxas was holding his grandchild in his arms as he walked around his Scottsdale neighborhood Tuesday night threatening neighbors and police. 

"There were at least three officers in position to engage the suspect. At least one of the officers thought he saw something in the suspect's hands," said Sgt. Mark Clark.
Loxas was standing outside of his home with his grandchild still in his arms when Officer James Peters fired one shot to the head, killing the suspect.
Police say the 9-month-old boy was not injured during the shooting.
Officers also escaped unharmed.
Some neighbors are now questioning the officers actions.
Investigators say the officers on the scene thought Loxas was holding a gun.
Detectives did not find a weapon on Loxas following the shooting, but did locate several firearms inside the home.
Officer Peters, who fired the fatal shot, has been involved in seven shootings over the past decade.
Six of those have been fatal, and all have been ruled justified. 

[BUGEYE]

until the investigation is complete, I'll only say, the cop should have taken cover and waited, it's stupid to chance hitting the kid.

[turk762]

Unless they thought the child was in danger of being killed, then if cops were to take cover and nothing was done, child was killed, then it would be, why didnt they do something? They let him kill the child.
 
I think to much of the story is missing to draw a conclusion.
 
What was he doing walking around with the kid in hand threatening the neighbors, police, ect. What was his intent? Sounds like a human sheild to me!!
I highly doubt he was on a leasure stroll with Jr.

I want the whole story including what he said to the cops, not what the neighbors saw from a 100yrds away from the comfort and safety of their homes.

[Cuts Crooked]

I want the whole story including what he said to the cops, not what the neighbors saw from a 100yrds away from the comfort and safety of their homes.

+1 on that!

However, This concerns me a bit:

Officer Peters, who fired the fatal shot, has been involved in seven shootings over the past decade.
Six of those have been fatal, and all have been ruled justified. 

That's a LOT of career shootings for one officer........unless he is a sniper...maybe.

[BUGEYE]

I want the whole story including what he said to the cops, not what the neighbors saw from a 100yrds away from the comfort and safety of their homes.

+1 on that!

However, This concerns me a bit:

Officer Peters, who fired the fatal shot, has been involved in seven shootings over the past decade.
Six of those have been fatal, and all have been ruled justified. 

That's a LOT of career shootings for one officer........unless he is a sniper...maybe.

If he was a sniper with a rifle, great.  I'm uneasy about a handgun though.

[Cuts Crooked]

Found more on this story....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2102730/Arizona-cop-James-Peters-shot-killed-unarmed-grandfather-involved-FIVE-previous-fatal-shootings.html

Looks like a clean shoot..........and yes the officer was SWAT in prior shootings.

[BUGEYE]

I googled it.  he was 15' away.  couldn't he or someone check the guys hands with a scope or binocs.
I'm not a big fan of SWAT.

[Cuts Crooked]

I googled it.  he was 15' away.  couldn't he or someone check the guys hands with a scope or binocs.
I'm not a big fan of SWAT.

The guy was reaching into the house.....too great a chance of grabbing a weapon.

Sorry, but reality dictates, if there's chance he'll get a weapon.........I'm going home at the end of my shift.

Stats show that if a perp has a gun within arms reach, and you've got 20 feet to cover before you can make physical contact, you will be shot twice before you get to him...from 15 feet...maybe only once.

[BUGEYE]

I googled it.  he was 15' away.  couldn't he or someone check the guys hands with a scope or binocs.
I'm not a big fan of SWAT.

The guy was reaching into the house.....too great a chance of grabbing a weapon.

Sorry, but reality dictates, if there's chance he'll get a weapon.........I'm going home at the end of my shift.

Stats show that if a perp has a gun within arms reach, and you've got 20 feet to cover before you can make physical contact, you will be shot twice before you get to him...from 15 feet...maybe only once.

so if you're not sure, you shoot him in the head,  just in case.
can't agree with that shooting.  his gun was stuffed down in his chair and the chair was not next to the door.

[Cuts Crooked]

From the article I gave a link too:

Officer Peters fired his scope-equipped police rifle as Mr Loxas leaned over and reached back into the house, authorities said. The baby was not hurt and police said Officer Peters was trying to save its life.

Now........I think the officer has had too many shootings in his career, but I think this is a good shoot anyway.......everyone made it home but the perp this time.

It's time for this officer to go to a desk job though.

[Gunshy429]

Agree; there is much more information to learn about this incident before I'd repeat it...

[Cuts Crooked]

so if you're not sure, you shoot him in the head,  just in case.
can't agree with that shooting.  his gun was stuffed down in his chair and the chair was not next to the door.

And the officer knew that ......... how? What the officer knew, was the guys was making threats towards neighbors and cops, he reached for something out of sight...... and it got him killed. Sorry if you don't like it, but under the circumstances described that is defined as a clean shoot, anywhere.

Sure do wish cops could read minds.........but that would be a violation of our rights.

Frankly, I'm amazed that this ended up this way, instead of with multiple dead and wounded.
But some people will grouse if you hang em with a new rope!

[BUGEYE]

so if you're not sure, you shoot him in the head,  just in case.
can't agree with that shooting.  his gun was stuffed down in his chair and the chair was not next to the door.

And the officer knew that ......... how? What the officer knew, was the guys was making threats towards neighbors and cops, he reached for something out of sight...... and it got him killed. Sorry if you don't like it, but under the circumstances described that is defined as a clean shoot, anywhere.

Sure do wish cops could read minds.........but that would be a violation of our rights.

Frankly, I'm amazed that this ended up this way, instead of with multiple dead and wounded.
But some people will grouse if you hang em with a new rope!

there are confrontations every day where cops are threatened by the perp.
he did NOT see a weapon but decided to shoot him, "just in case".
that don't fly.
cops receive training in this scenario and if they keep shooting the "innocent" guy in the video, they can lose their certification.
so if I'm stopped and ordered out of my truck and reach for my cane, a cop is justified in shooting me just in case I'm reaching for a weapon.

[KIMBER45]

Don't they have high power binoculars ,or the like,  to make sure?

[Cuts Crooked]

Don't they have high power binoculars or the like to make sure?

Did you READ it? The perp was reaching inside the house..............

And I'm truly sorry if it offends, but if you threaten to kill a cop and reach for a possible hidden weapon, you are going to get shot. That has been vetted by our courts many times over, you got a problem with it, tell to a judge......but be prepared to be laughed at.

[Cuts Crooked]

so if I'm stopped and ordered out of my truck and reach for my cane, a cop is justified in shooting me just in case I'm reaching for a weapon.

Depends, do you have a hostage, have you been screaming that you are going to kill the officer? What were you doing prior to the stop? Lotta variables to take into consideration.......so don't try to make a scenerio that has nothing to do with this one...doesn't equate.

[BUGEYE]

there has been some fired and some prosecuted for being trigger happy....
only if he actually saw a weapon was it justified.
the man probably had a mental problem.

[scotsman]

I am with BUGEYE on this one. Seems there are an awful lot of people shot when it was 'thought' something was seen. Then there is the seventh shooting thing, six of them lethal. Seems like alot for one officer. I was not there of course and we only know what we read and is reported, but  being shot because someone 'thought' they saw something seems wrong to me. If someone screams that they will do something to you and you thump them a few times guess what? You are charged with assualt not the person that screamed. At least it works that way for 'civilians'.

[Cuts Crooked]

there has been some fired and some prosecuted for being trigger happy....
only if he actually saw a weapon was it justified.
the man probably had a mental problem.

Sorry again, but the reality is, if this goes to court, he will be exonerated, if the described situation is true.......visible weapon or not!

BTW, I've been through "hogans ally" more than a few times........the pregnant woman with the machine gun "killed" me several times. But the guy screaming death threats, with the shotgun hidden behind the door.........didn't!

[Cuts Crooked]

I am with BUGEYE on this one. Seems there are an awful lot of people shot when it was 'thought' something was seen. Then there is the seventh shooting thing, six of them lethal. Seems like alot for one officer. I was not there of course and we only know what we read and is reported, but  being shot because someone 'thought' they saw something seems wrong to me. If someone screams that they will do something to you and you thump them a few times guess what? You are charged with assualt not the person that screamed. At least it works that way for 'civilians'.

Geeze!!!!!!!! You guys don't get it, or don't want too!

The courts have decided this type of thing again and again, if you make the threat, you have the means and the ability, and appear to attempting to make good on that.....oh well!

But some of you are unquestionable anti law enforcement. Ok I can accept that....but don't think that just because YOU think it's wrong means that a judge will agree with YOU.

[BUGEYE]

I guess if his rear was itching and he reached back to scratch.......BOOM.
obviously this cop was trigger happy and enjoys killing.
15' is close enough to determine if he had a weapon.  maybe he needs his eyes examined.
anyway,  when in doubt, shoot him, you'll be exonerated.
we had a rash of shootings here in atlanta, "just in case" and the mayor appointed a panel of business leaders and clergy to look into them.  just in case shootings have dropped to zero and zero cops have suffered because of it.  you can check it here.
http://acrbgov.org/

[Cuts Crooked]

I guess if his rear was itching and he reached back to scratch.......BOOM.
obviously this cop was trigger happy and enjoys killing.
15' is close enough to determine if he had a weapon.  maybe he needs his eyes examined.
anyway,  when in doubt, shoot him, you'll be exonerated.
we had a rash of shootings here in atlanta, "just in case" and the mayor appointed a panel of business leaders and clergy to look into them.  just in case shootings have dropped to zero and zero cops have suffered because of it.  you can check it here.
http://acrbgov.org/

<Shrug> At the end of the day I'm going home alive. And I'm not going to worry about a panel of business leaders and clergy who know zip about law enforcement......I'll put my fate in the hands of a jury and judge.

BTW, how come you guys keep ignoring the reach into the house, and instead concentrate on what was or was not in his hands prior to reaching? It looks like you've got tunnel vision about that part.......can't see anything else.

[BUGEYE]

I guess if his rear was itching and he reached back to scratch.......BOOM.
obviously this cop was trigger happy and enjoys killing.
15' is close enough to determine if he had a weapon.  maybe he needs his eyes examined.
anyway,  when in doubt, shoot him, you'll be exonerated.
we had a rash of shootings here in atlanta, "just in case" and the mayor appointed a panel of business leaders and clergy to look into them.  just in case shootings have dropped to zero and zero cops have suffered because of it.  you can check it here.
http://acrbgov.org/

<Shrug> At the end of the day I'm going home alive. And I'm not going to worry about a panel of business leaders and clergy who know zip about law enforcement......I'll put my fate in the hands of a jury and judge.

BTW, how come you guys keep ignoring the reach into the house, and instead concentrate on what was or was not in his hands prior to reaching? It looks like you've got tunnel vision about that part.......can't see anything else.

he could have been turning on the porch light..... it was found that his gun was out of reach.
as far as the citizen review board, killings by cops have dropped damatically.  why do you think the military has a civilian in charge?  over in another thread, folks are talking like the FBI is becoming a rogue agency, so maybe this is a rogue police force that has a loose cannon. that cannon needs to be dumped overboard.

[Cuts Crooked]

asked you before, to quit trying to make up scenerios.


You can "what if" till the Second Coming......let's wait and see what happens.....I'm betting I'm right and he won't be charged, and if he is, he'll be cleared.

[BUGEYE]

asked you before, to quit trying to make up scenerios.


You can "what if" till the Second Coming......let's wait and see what happens.....I'm betting I'm right and he won't be charged, and if he is, he'll be cleared.

let me ask you,  if a hunter sees something brown in the bushes and THINKS it's a deer, is he justified in taking a shot and maybe killing a person.
cops always say, I THOUGHT I saw something in his hand.  that does NOT justify killing another human.  "something" could be one of millions of different things.  the man was murdered by an out-of-control cop.

[Cuts Crooked]

asked you before, to quit trying to make up scenerios.


You can "what if" till the Second Coming......let's wait and see what happens.....I'm betting I'm right and he won't be charged, and if he is, he'll be cleared.

let me ask you,  if a hunter sees something brown in the bushes and THINKS it's a deer, is he justified in taking a shot and maybe killing a person.
cops always say, I THOUGHT I saw something in his hand.  that does NOT justify killing another human.  "something" could be one of millions of different things.  the man was murdered by an out-of-control cop.

Dang!! You really DON'T get it...........you cannot make up scenerios and have it stand up in court......deer hunting is NOT law enforcement.

Unfortunately for your sad attempts at argument, the courts have upheld my position repeatedly, you threaten a cop, you have the means and ability to carry out that threat, you appear to be attempting to carry out that threat, all while refusing to obey lawful orders, you will lose.....period. A number of years ago an officer in Iowa City was investigating a reported burglery in progress, upon encountering a male suject inside the business he shouted "freeze!", the subject point something at the officer, the officer shot and killed him, the item was a cell phone, the cop lost his job but was not found guilty in relation to the shooting.......he lost his job for entering the business without back up.

You noted elsewhere that you try to avoid confrontation with law enforcement officers. That appears to be surprizingly good judgement on your part.

[BUGEYE]

The vast majority of cops are well trained profressionals and use good judgement when faced with a crazed bad-guy.  this guy was a killer.
the courts don't always laugh in these situations.
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2010/08/4_jailed_cops_denied_bail_in_d.html

[BUGEYE]

one other interesting link and then I'll shut up.

http://www.lvrj.com/news/deadly-force/always-justified

[Cuts Crooked]

Niether of those was "this shooting" though were they? The katrina shooting weren't even close to this (BTW I served in NO post Katrina)

And your other link gives further links showing things completely against your arguments! LOL!!!!!!!!!

What say we revisit this in a year? Bet he's cleared.

Meanwhile I'd recommend you continue to avoid LE confrontations out there in the real world!

[BUGEYE]

Niether of those was "this shooting" though were they? The katrina shooting weren't even close to this (BTW I served in NO post Katrina)

And your other link gives further links showing things completely against your arguments! LOL!!!!!!!!!

What say we revisit this in a year? Bet he's cleared.

Meanwhile I'd recommend you continue to avoid LE confrontations out there in the real world!

well I was gonna quit this argument, but since you misrepresented that second link, I have to speak up.
it was a very long article about unjustified shootings.  some were some weren't.  I think it boiled down to some cops allowing a fellow cop getting away with murder.  you need to read it all.
you are guilty of the same thing I am, analyzing something without having been there.
I'm on the old mans side, you're on the cops side.
A citizen review board weeds out rogue cops.