Author Topic: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again  (Read 3012 times)

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Offline Doublebass73

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http://www.wmur.com/news/30495514/detail.html

Here is a story about a homeowner whose house was burglarized, he then grabbed his gun and went outside, caught the dirtbag burglarizing his neighbors house, fired a warning shot into the ground next to the dirtbag then held him at gunpoint until the police arrived. The police arrested the dirtbag AND arrested the homeowner. They are charging the homeowner with FELONY reckless conduct.

I know there are some members here who agree with the gun control act of 1968 and think that convicted felons should never be allowed to own guns again. Let's assume the homeowner is convicted of this felony charge. Do you think this homeowner should NEVER be allowed to own guns for the rest of his life? If so then why?
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Offline BUGEYE

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I think the answer is pretty obvious.  he should never have been charged with anything.
a jury of his peers should straighten things out.
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Offline twoshooter

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Personally, I think that all of the deals, extensions, add ons is a bunch of crap. If you rob a store, you are caught, convicted, and sentenced, the sentence should be appropriate and specific. If you went into that store and picked up a quart of milk that said $1.99 and you paid the clerk, once you are leaving the building they do not run up and say, "hey, you need to pay 25 cents deposit on the plastic jug", and then " hey, you need to contribute to the retirement fund for dairy farmers, or "save a cow today, eat chicken" fund.
   They should not be able to subdivide crimes like they have investments. Lets see, you robbed a store, that is a crime, but the clerk was gay, so it is also a hate crime - gay, black so it was racially motivated- hate crime X2, she was female-you are a misogynist- hate crime x3, she was muslim- hate crime x4, you used a gun-extra sentence, it held more than 10 rounds - extra sentence, the gun was stolen- (possessing stolen property), you had an accomplice in the robbery- conspiracy, you exceeded the speedlimit while trying to escape, you ran several stop signs, you drove in the carpool lane without the required number of passengers, you had a taillight out, there was a pipe in the car - drug paraphernalia, and several too more to minor to mention. It is a full employment stimulus package for attorneys,  I know, I have a childs that is a PA.
     If you commit a crime, it is a crime. If you are convicted they should pronounce sentence. That should cover everything. Once the "cost" is paid by completing the sentence it is over, done , finished, PERIOD. If not, they should have spelled that out in the charges and punishment in detail at the trial.   
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Offline SHOOTALL

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I think the answer is pretty obvious.  he should never have been charged with anything.
a jury of his peers should straighten things out.

A warning shot is stupid ! In most cities or populated areas its illegal to shoot. If he was using his weapon it is his obligation to know the law. He had nothing to gain from confronting the bad guy. He put himself in danger. He showed irresponsibility shooting into the ground .
Two things , I hope he can get it reduced or thrown out and it proves no good deed goes unpunished .
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Wyo. Coyote Hunter

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Personally, if a person convicted of a crime has served his sentence and is fit to be in society, he should be ABLE TO OWN FIREARMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline yellowtail3

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Personally, if a person convicted of a crime has served his sentence and is fit to be in society, he should be ABLE TO OWN FIREARMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
+1
As it is now, it is easy to be a felon... and that suits gov't purpose, as 2nd Amendment Rightsbecome ever-more commonly viewed as 2nd Amendment privileges.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Pat/Rick

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It might just be me but, I think we're going to see felony charges on gun owners whenever they can be charged. Obscurily or otherwise. The more people that can be disarmed "legally" the less of a "problem" later.
 
 As hard as it may be for some to understand.......... felons, have the same inalienable right to self defense as everybody else. Further more, that right should be reinstated after their term of incarceration/sentancing is met.  Shall not be infringed, is pretty much a matter of fact statement.

Offline powderman

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The homeowner should not have been arrested, a medal maybe, but certainly not arrested. I know several cases where people were once young and stupid, haven't we all, and been charged with felonies that really weren't. These folks have grown up and matured and I see no reason they should not be able to shoot and hunt with the rest of us. There might be exceptions with all the libby early releases depending on the crime but for the most part I say let them be allowed to own a gun. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
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Offline jimster

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Quote
A warning shot is stupid ! In most cities or populated areas its illegal to shoot.
Where I live they have a law that says you can't discharge a weapon in some cities and area's unless you have to shoot in self defense.  It is of course impossible to not fire a round in defense, so we have some logic here.  So self defense you will not be charged with discharging your weapon.  I'm not sure about a warning shot, or even if it's ever a good idea, myself I'm not into warning shots, don't know the situation though, can't really comment on that cause lots of situations can happen. I have an open mind maybe if someone can give a good situation of a warning shot and where this might happen...if it can keep someone alive and keep someone from dying and nobody else can get hurt...who knows.
Anyway, since the title is if felons can own guns, if they did their time, they need to be able to protect themselves same as any other human, protection of ones self is the natural law given by the creator and everyone has the right to protect their gift of life...no matter what.

Offline Rol Page

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There are violent felons who I believe can not be reincarnated to model citizens by being sent to prison.  I am a firm believer in the second amendment, however I would prefer that some of these dudes not have a firearm if I had to confront them.  This leaves me in a quandary, too much govt. in our lives?  I believe absolutely yes...  Should a "white collar felon" be prohibited from owning a firearm after doing his or her time.. to me, serves no useful purpose.
 
My hope in the instant New Hampshire case is that the prosecutor will have the common sense and intestinal fortitude to outright dismiss the charges if this fellow has a previously clean record, and the individual, and the community at large will learn when to and not to discharge a firearm..self defense.
 
It is easy to Monday morning quarterback these instances..
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Offline m-g Willy

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2012, 02:12:10 PM »
I think felons should be barred from owning firearms.
That way we won't have to ever jail them.
Just tell them they can't have a gun anymore!
Problem solved.
Then outlaw drugs  to end the drug problem.And put a no tresspassing sign up on the border to keep all the aliens from comming across.
There, I just solved all our problems! ::)

Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2012, 06:44:23 PM »
The levels of what constitutes a felony are being distorted by inflation. How large a truck would it have taken to haul a thousand dollars worth of stolen meat 45 years ago?  How about today? Substitute about any monetary crime. Assault related crimes I'm pretty good with an ass whipping from any year being about equal apples to apples.


If convicted by a jury of peers with a poor decision to shoot a warning shot I suppose he is guilty. I like to think jury trials tend to get it right, there are always exceptions, but by and large we have a pretty fair system.


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Offline Empty Quiver

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2012, 06:48:41 PM »
Let me add this. He is expected to live within the laws of the state in which he resides. If you find the laws governing your behavior abhorrent ... move.
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Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2012, 01:10:14 AM »
Quote
Let me add this. He is expected to live within the laws of the state in which he resides. If you find the laws governing your behavior abhorrent ... move.

Pretty much exactly what I was going to say.
 
It's our duties as firearm owners to know our local laws, abide by them and then set good examples so that we can build from that foundation.  Running outside and shooting at a guy trying to break into your neighbors house is completely ignorant.  First of all because the castle docturne is not in effect to protect yourself, second of all what are the laws for brandishing a firearm in your locality?  What about distance to a school zone?  ect.. ect. 
 
He could have prevented the crime by simple yelling out his front door at the perp.  If legal he could have held the perp at gunpoint without ever firing a shot.  It all comes down to knowing the laws.
 
As far as convicted felons go it should be a case by case basis.  If a person has killed somebody with a gun then it should be illegal for them to ever think about owning a gun.  If nonviolent then I'm fine with them owning one.  But it really should be case by case.
 
In this guys case, IF charged then I believe he should be allowed to own one still.  He was just trying to help.  Granted he's an idiot, but still a nice one. 
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Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2012, 05:36:26 AM »
SSSam - While I disagree with your comment about "Running outside and shooting at a guy trying to break into your neighbors house is completely ignorant.".  I feel that that Mr. Flemming, did the right thing.  How are we good neighbors, if we won't help our neighbors protect themselves and their property.  I for one would love to have a neighbor like Mr. Flemming, and consider myself lucky that I do.  In the article stated: "I fired into the ground, to the left of him," Dennis Fleming said. "There was nothing but woods behind him.  I've owned guns my whole life and I pretty much was sure what I was doing."

I agree with you that not only if he is charged, I also believe that even if convicted, Mr. Flemming  should be allowed to own a firearm.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2012, 09:23:34 AM »
fireing a warning shot is ignorrant ! Why you may wonder. First if you are not shooting to center of mass at someone attacking you in most cases you don't need to be shooting. Second you may not see the other guy(s) with the bad guy you do see. They may return fire! Police may have been alerted and see you shoot YOU MAY DRAW THEIR FIRE ! Then the really important one , you are going out to engauge a bad guy with a guy maybe how stupid can you be to WASTE your first shot ? you may need every bullet to stop the bad guy or your gun could fail after ONE shot . Is it worth being a big shot ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2012, 09:48:32 AM »
well, the neighbors were happy with him and a jury will probably clear him.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2012, 09:52:35 AM »
well, the neighbors were happy with him and a jury will probably clear him.

dosen't make him smart !  ;)
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline ironglow

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2012, 10:00:26 AM »
  That is small town New Hampshire...ewven though thge cops may have either overstepped or been compelled by the law itself to charge the home owner..I'm betting the jury will clear him..
   That is why we must keep from electing liberals into any public office.
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Offline jimster

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2012, 10:30:15 AM »
Quote
How are we good neighbors, if we won't help our neighbors protect themselves and
their property.  I for one would love to have a neighbor like Mr. Flemming, and
consider myself lucky that I do.  In the article stated: "I fired into
the ground
, to the left of him," Dennis Fleming said. "There
was nothing but woods behind him
.  I've owned guns my whole life and I
pretty much was sure what I was doing."
Here in Michigan a couple years back a fellow was watching his neighbors place get broke into, he went over there armed, the crook ran, the guy shot the crook in the butt as he was running away ...no charged filed against the shooter, crook went to the hospital before jail.  We have a law here that allows a citizen to stop a fleeing felon, guess that must mean the shot can enter the behind and come out the front, you of course want to be sure there has been a felony committed, and also nobody recommends shooting at people running away, but this does illustrate the difference in state laws and where you live.  Not all states have the same laws.  Self defense in this case was not used, the law that allows one to stop a felon, or a felony in progress was used. 
The only thing the neighbor had to replace was the back door that was wrecked by the crook trying to break in, nothing else was lost.

Offline OldSchoolRanger

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2012, 12:42:09 PM »
well, the neighbors were happy with him and a jury will probably clear him.

dosen't make him smart !  ;)
You don't have to be smart, you just have to have the jury (his neighbors) clear him.  8)
"You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." - Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

When you allow a lie to go unchallenged, it becomes the truth.

My quandary, I personally, don't think I have enough Handi's but, I know I have more Handi's than I really need or should have.

Offline Doublebass73

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2012, 04:19:40 PM »
This case proves to me that a blanket law which strips all convicted felons of their 2nd Amendment rights is simply wrong and unconstitutional. I would much rather err on the side of the Constitution than a feel good law which does nothing but affect good citizens like Mr. Fleming who try to do the right thing.
"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."

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Offline SwampThing762

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2012, 06:39:08 PM »
I cannot speak for NH, but I can tell you how that case will play out in Jacksonville, FL.   Brandishing the weapon gets you arrested and a possible sentence of three years.   The warning shot gets you a charge of illegal discharge of a firearm within city limits.   Running up to the burglar with the weapon is aggravated assault with a firearm.   There could be additional charges, but the homeowner's conduct guarantees those three charges.

The scenario should have played out as follows:  homeowner sees burglar and chases from house; homeowner reacquires burglar at neighbor's house;  call police reporting burglar's current location and had left homeowner's house --- but tell the police you think the burglar might be armed (may enhance response time).

Once a perpetrator leaves your immediate vicinity the threat of imminent harm is abated, and there is no justifiable use for deadly force.   Continued use of force could result in felony charges of assault/battery with firearm up to, and, possibly, including manslaughter and/or murder.    Furthermore, you have no affirmative duty to defend a third party.

IIRC, this anecdote was from one of Massad Ayoob's columns on this subject.    A woman with a ccw  permit was walking to her car when she encountered a man holding a gun tackling a woman to the ground.  She drew her weapon and fired at the man.    The man with the gun turned and shot her dead in the parking lot.    The woman with the ccw interfered in a street bust, and the man with the gun was an undercover cop.   It was ruled a justifiable shoot for the cop.

That scenario has just always stuck with me from the day I read it.

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Offline Duke0313

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2012, 08:23:33 PM »
Cover your @$$ and know the law in your area. If your life (or others) is not in imminent danger, then you need to know what is legal to protect yourself!
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Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2012, 12:23:02 AM »
 
Quote
Cover your @$$ and know the law in your area. If your life (or others) is not in imminent danger, then you need to know what is legal to protect yourself!
   My exact point.  Know your local laws and abide by them!  Don't let your will to be a good samaritan put you behind bars. C.Y.A!!!!
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Offline Lost Farmboy

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2012, 12:33:51 AM »
  The warning shot was stupid and unnecessary. With that said I know of several people that are convicted felons and can no longer own or use guns. None of them are or were ever dangerous. One of them was convicted of killing a stray cat with a golf club. The cat was fighting with his dog. Rabies? I have also known of convicted felons that were dangerous and the laws did not stop them from carrying guns. It seems that only law abiding convicted felons have their second amendment rights violated.
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2012, 01:38:31 AM »
well, the neighbors were happy with him and a jury will probably clear him.

dosen't make him smart !  ;)
You don't have to be smart, you just have to have the jury (his neighbors) clear him.  8)

 
and enough money to get a good lawyer . seems like an expence that should have been avoided.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2012, 01:39:40 AM »
Quote
Cover your @$$ and know the law in your area. If your life (or others) is not in imminent danger, then you need to know what is legal to protect yourself!
   My exact point.  Know your local laws and abide by them!  Don't let your will to be a good samaritan put you behind bars. C.Y.A!!!!

 
in reality the bad guy could have been known to the home owner and acting on his behalf .................
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2012, 02:54:36 AM »
Quote
in reality the bad guy could have been known to the home owner and acting on his behalf .................
   
 
Very true.  To walk outside and shoot at somebody before you have the necessary info about the situation is beyond stupid.  This guy was trigger happy and deserves to sweat it out for a while.   As far as the Jury clearing him... I've been on a jury before.  The lawyers stack those things so far in their favors it's ridiculous.  I wouldn't want to depend on a jury myself.
 
Knowledge and common sense is key in this type of situation.
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: For those who think convicted felons should never be able to own guns again
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2012, 03:59:16 AM »
judge Napolitano just weighed in on the N.H. guy and said a jury would clear him or it would be dismissed since he was not on public property.
the judge didn't think it was a big deal and cited some supreme courts rulings.
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