Author Topic: Kinda Scary (Read 3057 times)

Swampman · « **on:** February 20, 2012, 03:18:06 PM »

My friend's young sons brought out a .300 Weatherby Vanguard yesterday and fired a few rounds through it. They asked me if I wanted to try it. The recoil seemed a little light and upon extraction I noticed there was almost no neck left on the fired case. At first I thought perhaps it had really excessive head space but when I glanced at the head stamp it said .300 Winchester Mag. It seems they had rifles chambered in both and hadn't noticed the difference. It was actually accurate with the wrong cartridges, and very accurate with the right cartridges. It didn't seem to hurt the rifle. I'll be checking headstamps from now on when shooting someone else's rifle. I enjoy shooting the .300 Weatherby. It's awesome...

drdougrx · « **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2012, 03:08:56 AM »

Kinda?

I'd say. When I was a kid I once watched a guy mistakenly load and fire and 8mm mauser in an M1 Garand....don't know about accuracy but it fired and the rifle was fine.

yooper77 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2012, 03:58:06 AM »

Lack of attention to detail and complacency is my first thoughts.

Considering the Weatherby Vanguard was chambered in 300 Weatherby Magnum shooting a 300 Winchester Magnum cartridges, not scary at all. The belt headspaced off the belt. My friend has the Weatherby Vanguard in 257 Weatherby Magnum and its very accurate well made rifle.

Now if it was a 338 Winchester Magnum out of the 300 Weatherby Magnum you would have a real problem.

I saw the result off the internet once of someone shooting a 7mm Remington Magnum out of a 270 Weatherby Magnum rifle and it EXPLODED, but it wasn't a Weatherby rifle.

yooper77

bilmac · « **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2012, 05:24:46 AM »

I wouldn't have believed that you could fire an 8X57 in a garand and it survived. It's a tougher gun than I thought.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2012, 07:40:06 AM »

Good reminder Swamp!!!

We all can have a brain fart and mistakes happen! Be careful!!

I have a similar story... I was running a small gun shop years ago and a small Italian fellow came in one day with a Jambed shotgun. His English was worse than my Italian he was mad we sold him wrong ammo. It was a Browning auto 5 16 Ga and he had 20 ga. He produced a couple split blown out casings along with the gun with a shell jambed inside. YES it was live!!! I took it out behind the store, cleared it and returned. Gun was fine I thought he understood what he did.

About one month later same guy, with a Browning Auto chambered in 308. Madder than hell cause he missed a big buck... Gun jambed and yup, he bought it from us! Trouble was he had been shooting 30-30 shells!!!!! Again he brought in a loaded gun with a 30-30 jambed in the chamber.

This one I feel was as much language barrier as anything. But if you don't know AsK!!

We all need to read these stories from time to time!!! It could be one of us next time!!! As momma said, never say never....

CW

rbursek · « **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2012, 07:46:01 AM »

I maybe way off here, but I thought you could shoot 300WinM in a 300 Weatherby or is it a 300HH.

yooper77 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2012, 08:23:53 AM »

Quote from: rbursek on February 21, 2012, 07:46:01 AM

I maybe way off here, but I thought you could shoot 300WinM in a 300 Weatherby or is it a 300HH.

Roy Weatherby blew out the 300 H&H Magnum into the 300 Weatherby Magnum.

Even though its was the wrong cartridge, there isn't really much to be scared of since the chamber is freebored and the 300 Winchester Magnum cartridge pressure was greatly reduced and fireformed, but the case of course is too short and is now useless.

yooper77

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2012, 09:51:33 AM »

Swampman my son has a 300wby. I helped him sight in the scope , you enjoy that ?

glay no one was hurt. Nice to know in a emg .

Wyo. Coyote Hunter · « **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2012, 10:44:08 AM »

$:-\$ Swampman, can't believe you had good things to say about a Weatherby, or a .300 mag..

What is the world coming to?

?

$:-\$

Until I was about 25 years of age, I thought there was no better round and an old .30-06....started playing with other rounds and realized it is good, but there are others that are as you say, AWESOME!!!!!!

drdougrx · « **Reply #9 on:** February 22, 2012, 03:11:06 AM »

Hey bilmac...I was surprised too, though at the time I was a nube and spent the time agreeing with everyone at the range...I didn't know much at all about M1s. As I recall, the guy had an ammo can with loose ammo that he was shooting from...don't remember if he used garand clips or not....I do remember lots of white smoke coming from the action which was how I and whom ever was there at the time realized there was a problem.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #10 on:** February 22, 2012, 07:17:22 AM »

Quote from: drdougrx on February 22, 2012, 03:11:06 AM

Hey bilmac...I was surprised too, though at the time I was a nube and spent the time agreeing with everyone at the range...I didn't know much at all about M1s. As I recall, the guy had an ammo can with loose ammo that he was shooting from...don't remember if he used garand clips or not....I do remember lots of white smoke coming from the action which was how I and whom ever was there at the time realized there was a problem.

a 3006 case is 2.494 oal , 1.748 to the shoulder with a 17 16' shoulder .the 8mm is 2.658 oal 2.094 to the shoulder with a 14 3230' shoulder ang. not to mention the bullet dia is different.
could it be that the guy shot a 8mm/06 in his gun ?

Graybeard · « **Reply #11 on:** February 22, 2012, 12:18:50 PM »

You must scare easily. There shouldn't be anything really unsafe about firing a .300 Winchester in a .300 Whby chamber.

If you look at the cartridge specs you can see both are very close in dimensions to the beginning of the neck. Sure the neck on the Winchester is shorter as is case length but the important part is very nearly indentical. Both headspace effectively on the shoulder so no danger of it slipping to far into the chamber. The Winchester case body is actually a few thousands longer to the shoulder and should be a reasonably tight fit even in the radiused shoulder area of the Whby.

Sure ya really shouldn't ever fire any round in a rifle or handgun that it is not chambered to but this is one combination that to me seems as safe as such things can be. Now had he managed to chamber a .300 Whby in a .300 Winchester that long neck would have not allowed bullet release until pressure built really high and that would be dangerous.

Had it been a 338 Winchester that might have been a blown up rifle.

Drilling Man · « **Reply #12 on:** February 23, 2012, 03:43:34 AM »

Quote from: Graybeard on February 22, 2012, 12:18:50 PM

You must scare easily.

I agree, i've seen this happen more than once at a range. It really isn't a huge deal, and i bet it happens more often that you'd think.

I had guys come into my shop and tell me that they thought ALL 300 mags interchanged!

DM

Swampman · « **Reply #13 on:** February 23, 2012, 03:48:56 AM »

So shooting the wrong ammo in a firearm is no big deal?

charles p · « **Reply #14 on:** February 23, 2012, 05:00:24 AM »

Never shot the wrong ammo but one afternoon last year I was having trouble with a cartridge feeding from a blind magazine and discovered I had picked up the wrong ammo. Whew!

cwlongshot · « **Reply #15 on:** February 23, 2012, 05:00:53 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on February 23, 2012, 03:48:56 AM

So shooting the wrong ammo in a firearm is no big deal?

You are correct Swamp, it's a VERY BIG DEAL! One should only fire ammo that is clearly marked/identified as identical to markings in/on the gun they intend to shoot it in. If in doubt consult known authorities. That's just good common sense .

Shame on you guys for making light of it! ( I'm pretty sure you know your "stuff" but others may not)

There is a huge difference between someone "in the know" saying something like, "shooting a 300 H&H mag in a Weatherby is ok. WE know that basically the Weatherby is an improved H&H. BUT not everyone knows that and NOT KNOWING is where in lies the danger! alot of noobies come here for information, let's do our best to provide or at the very least clarify that...

CW

Graybeard · « **Reply #16 on:** February 23, 2012, 06:46:29 AM »

I said ya shouldn't ever fire a round in a rifle or handgun for which it is not chambered. I merely added that the particular combination mentioned here isn't anymore unsafe than firing a .300 H&H in the .300 Whby chamber due to the almost identical case bodies of the two.

That .338 WM mentioned due to the shorter case 2.5" compared to 2.62" for the .300 Win Mag means it almost certainly would chamber in the .300 Whby and most likely would take the gun apart where as the .300 Winny really shouldn't cause any problems other than maybe an occasional small gas leak and even that I doubt.

Yes generally speaking firing any round a firearm is not specifically chambered to is a big no-no but in the real world IF you know what you are doing there are a lot of combinations that are not unsafe. I saw a list in a magazine a very long time ago of such things that wouldn't normally be considered but which were in fact safe.

drdougrx · « **Reply #17 on:** February 23, 2012, 10:20:24 AM »

Shootall....it was an 8x57...we all looked at the case, actually passed it around. It chambered and was fired, I saw it....

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #18 on:** February 23, 2012, 10:30:57 AM »

the head stamp could have read 8x57 depending on case used. it could have also been one of the first guns as the chambers were a little different way back, just asking

Huffmanite · « **Reply #19 on:** February 23, 2012, 10:36:27 AM »

Swampman, Just goes to show you should stay with just shooting only a Remington rifle. But happy, nothing bad happened to you. I had to roll my eyes once, so to speak, when a guy showed me a British Enfield military rifle, a .303 of course, asking me what cartridge it shot....then telling me he knew it wasn't a 30-30 because he'd shot one in it already. As for myself, had bought a sporterized type 38 Japanese Arisaka rifle off internet that was supposed to be a 6.5x55 Swede. LOL, turned out it was rechambered, but was a 6.5x57, instead of a 6.5x55. Lucky for me, first two rounds fired with it, had rifle sandbagged down with a landyard rigged to trigger. Had fun removing removing half the brass left in chamber after a complete case separation.

Swampman · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2012, 12:27:00 PM »

Quote from: Huffmanite on February 23, 2012, 10:36:27 AM

Swampman, Just goes to show you should stay with just shooting only a Remington rifle.

They are the strongest boltaction around but they were also chambered in .300 Weatherby.....

pastorp · « **Reply #21 on:** February 24, 2012, 02:23:23 AM »

Come on guys, Swampy is always making broad sweeping startments. If he is indeed such a Expert he should know the exceptions... But stiring up contiversity is his main goal and he's good at that.

And you CW know that some combinations are not dangerous. Like shooting 308win in a 358win chamber. Not accurate, but dangerous? or 22-250 in a 250-3000 chamber. Or 257roberts in a 7mm mauser chamber.

Generally speaking mixing amo is not good but as long as the same parent case and the bullet itself is smaller diamiter, what harm has been done?

Drilling Man · « **Reply #22 on:** February 24, 2012, 05:53:01 AM »

AMEN!

DM

cwlongshot · « **Reply #23 on:** February 24, 2012, 06:56:57 AM »

Pastorp,
Of coarse I do and likely you as well as many others do too. But you miss my point. (Not entirely cause your last paragraph sums it up nicely) Not everyone does! Clear clarifications should follow or preclude any such statements or better yet, don't say them. It just may keep someone from needless harm.

What you don't know is, I get regular PM questions. These are noobies who don't care to ask on a public forum for fear of flaming. Now we know That dosen't happen here, and I tell them that first and formost. But it did happen where they are coming from. My point is there are MANY people who just read and glean info off members they place respect in. Guys with hi post counts, admins or moderators.

CW

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #24 on:** February 24, 2012, 10:15:14 AM »

dont hold me to this but i remember back in the day either in a weatherby advertisement or a test in one of the major gun rags of the day that they gave that as one of the good points of a 300wby. In a pinch a guy could shoot it safely with 300 win mags if thats all the ammo he could find. Now dont jump down my throat and say im recomending something dangerous. I never said to do it i said i saw it once. truth be told though it wouldnt hurt a thing. I wouldnt want to make a steady habit out of doing it though as it would tend to gunk up the chamber and it might cause troubles later when shooting weatherby ammo again.

max1138 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 25, 2012, 02:50:37 AM »

things like this scare me, I load/shoot 270,308, 06(dads) and whelen,
the 270 ammo goes in blue boxes
the 308 goes in green boxes
the 06 ammo goes in red boxes
the whelen ammo goes in black boxes
when loading only that particular brass/bullet is on the bench the others are stored out of reach,
dont want to accidentally reform any of my brass, drop a 270-.308 down a charged whelen case or seat a heavier bullet over an incorrect charge.
and each cartridge is checked as it goes in the storage boxes nose down headstamp up.
I wont even have the ammo for a different cartridge on the shooting bench when testing/shooting, it stays in the truck or on the 4 wheeler. If someone is with me I load the weapons.
In short Im just about as paranoid about this sort of thing as it gets and so far its paid off no incidents.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #26 on:** February 25, 2012, 03:36:27 AM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on February 24, 2012, 10:15:14 AM

Now dont jump down my throat and say im recomending something dangerous. I never said to do it i said i saw it once.

Lloyd

I don't know who your addressing.

If me, I haven't jumped down anyone's throat. I hold no authority here. I was simply pointing something out I felt was overlooked. Something that carries the full potential to get someone badly hurt.

No offence ment. Simply another view, with a eye on safety.
CW

smokehouserex · « **Reply #27 on:** February 25, 2012, 04:39:08 AM »

Safety First, I'm with you CW, not that it makes any big deal, but many of us have been familiar with reloading/guns ect for serveral decades. Not so with all who reads these posts, so I think we should be careful what we tend to excuse/condone because a novice may think that these ideas can be translated to any/all firearms and get into real trouble. Lots of things can be done, sometimes you get by and sometimes you......
I do remember Roy Wby. making some statements concerning the strength of his 460 mag. that if repeated would blow a lesser gun to bits, we have to be careful.
Thats just my opinion
safety first
HM

pastorp · « **Reply #28 on:** February 25, 2012, 05:17:27 AM »

CW, I understand liability issues. And even more important safety issues. And I know where your comming from since you work in the industry.

But I have been involved in fireforming brass and wildcat cartridges for some time so while there are dos & don't a blanket statement either way is simply not correct.

I believe Swampy knows this and starts posts like this to "stir things up" And lots of folks buy into this to correct his statements And then others, like you, enter in to corect the corections.... And here we are...

Regards,

cwlongshot · « **Reply #29 on:** February 25, 2012, 06:44:33 AM »

Quote from: pastorp on February 25, 2012, 05:17:27 AM

CW, I understand liability issues. And even more important safety issues. And I know where your comming from since you work in the industry.

But I have been involved in fireforming brass and wildcat cartridges for some time so while there are dos & don't a blanket statement either way is simply not correct.

I believe Swampy knows this and starts posts like this to "stir things up" And lots of folks buy into this to correct his statements And then others, like you, enter in to corect the corections.... And here we are...

Regards,

Quite possible my friend, quite possible!!

CW