Different take on the ubiquitous best gun threads

[teamnelson]

So just checking, but are we saying that we'd be happy to carry a singleshot 6.5-284, .50BMG or .416 Barrett as our only firearm?

[SHOOTALL]

Now that we've had some time to discuss doing everything with a 30-30 single shot, what if you could change ONLY ONE of the following limitations: Caliber or Capacity.

If you change caliber, it's still only a Singleshot.
If you change capacity, it's still only 30-30.

Which would you pick?

 
capacity ! the 30-30 balistics are worthy . one can stalk/hunt to with in 30-30 range . one might not be able to load fast enough or one may only be able to grab a loaded rifle limiting himself to the rounds on board ........

[bilmac]

The Winchesters and Marlins are the progeny of that damm yankee rifle you load on Sunday and shoot all week.

[tacklebury]

So just checking, but are we saying that we'd be happy to carry a singleshot 6.5-284, .50BMG or .416 Barrett as our only firearm?

Sorry thread kinda pitched in a different direction from the original line.  I would never consider any of the above as my only and don't intend to play sniper.  I was a expert marksman in the Army and shot M14's out to 1000 yards.  I shot 50 cals to that range also.  My only point is just because a bullet gets to a distance doesn't mean it's got the energy to do the job and if you snipe at anything less than 1200 yards, it's so easy to pick out your location, they'd have you in a second.  You're a lot better off doing very light loads at very short range when single targets are offered up in the dark or using sabotage and traps or snares to deal damage back.  Either way, if it's a solid military unit, you are in trouble if you tangle with them and don't have equivalent training/ability/equipment.  They even have automatic counter snipers now that are robotized in some units.  You shoot more than once and it knows just where to bury a bullet.

[jlwilliams]

  Any individual going toe to toe with any sort of 'solid military unit' has a real short life expectancy.  I'm OK with a 'one gun' internet discussion but I think when it turns into one man against the invading hordes Red Dawn scenarios; we have gone into fantasy land.

[Swampman]

The .30-30 single shot is ideal.  Remington factory Core-Lokts work perfect but a 170 grain Lee mold, a Lee Loader, and a 8# can of Unique would keep it running forever.  Repeating rifles are nothing but trouble, wasteful, and unnecessary.  Black Rifles draw negative attention and should be avoided.  Every abandoned farm house will have .30-30 ammo.  Light lead loads are perfect for small game and will kill a deer or a 2 legged varmint.

[teamnelson]

I'm OK with a 'one gun' internet discussion but I think when it turns into one man against the invading hordes Red Dawn scenarios; we have gone into fantasy land.

Amen!

We shouldn't treat surviving the apocalypse as a rich man's sport, something that only those with enlightment and deep pockets can expect to survive. That many of these threads wind up there is I think a reflection of the outdoor sports, at least the ones that I've seen. Case in point, we get the outdoor channel on my ship - never seen it before. Watching professional hunters take some nice game. Wearing $500 in hi-tech camo, with a $500 rifle, $1000 optic, brand name shooting sticks, and $500 binos, and the latest ammo at $2 a round. Typically chambered in a .30 cal belted magnum or higher. Shooting white tail at 80 yds, and slapping each other on the back. I think Grandpa was doing that at 150yds with a Stevens single shot in .30-30 or 30-40krag, wearing $40 in clothes and no optics.

I admire the enthusiasm of the prepping community today, I just like to keep it realistic whenever we can. Millions of Americans are out of work, and millions more are scraping to make ends meet, and they are worried about the future. They probably shouldn't spend $10,000 in guns and ammo. They'll probably get along fine with Grandpas 30-30, a couple hundred rounds, beans, rice and seeds.

[teamnelson]

Sorry thread kinda pitched in a different direction from the original line.  I would never consider any of the above as my only and don't intend to play sniper.  I was a expert marksman in the Army and shot M14's out to 1000 yards.  I shot 50 cals to that range also.  My only point is just because a bullet gets to a distance doesn't mean it's got the energy to do the job and if you snipe at anything less than 1200 yards, it's so easy to pick out your location, they'd have you in a second.  You're a lot better off doing very light loads at very short range when single targets are offered up in the dark or using sabotage and traps or snares to deal damage back.  Either way, if it's a solid military unit, you are in trouble if you tangle with them and don't have equivalent training/ability/equipment.  They even have automatic counter snipers now that are robotized in some units.  You shoot more than once and it knows just where to bury a bullet.

I have similar experience; actually shook Hathcock's hand years back. A sniper is always in the offense, unless he is in a countersniper role, in which case he is integrated with a larger unit. Joe the Plumber with his AR and .338 upper and $1000 optic is neither. If he's going out on the offense like a hit man, then better men will hunt him down as a criminal. If he's employed in the defense of his trailer park or farm or neighborhood, then where's the cavalry to back him up? There's a scene in The Patriots (Rawles book) where a character snipes an advancing unit - he was a delaying action to allow the rest of his party to escape. As the vastly superior numbers advanced, he eventually got within range of their weapons, and they dialed him in. He died, but his friends got away. I like the ending where they all got away, that's the one I'm hoping for.

[SHOOTALL]

Hathcock visited the Richmond gun sho with one of the vendors often. He was a nice guy and would talk to anyone who was serious about long range shooting ( the vendor he came with is well known for there long range rifles). One thing he said was a sniper had to shoot good but his woods craft was as important. Seemed the closer the better for the shot but the longer the distance the better chance the sniper had to get away. snipers are a high priority target . So one shot you get away 2 shots you recieve fire  . Better to develope tatics with others to attack and cover each others movement if bad guys hunt you.
 
Also I have read that pigs are shot out to extreme distance where the energy has dropped to 250 ft lb and they still kill , some are pass thru. No big deal 22 long rifles do that 

[Lost Farmboy]

The .30-30 single shot is ideal.  Remington factory Core-Lokts work perfect but a 170 grain Lee mold, a Lee Loader, and a 8# can of Unique would keep it running forever.  Repeating rifles are nothing but trouble, wasteful, and unnecessary.  Black Rifles draw negative attention and should be avoided.  Every abandoned farm house will have .30-30 ammo.  Light lead loads are perfect for small game and will kill a deer or a 2 legged varmint.

 
I think Swampman's setup here is better than an AR and more ammo than one can carry, for the long term. If one can survive the first waves of die offs. But, I am sure the farmers will take their 30 30 ammo with them when they leave.

[Lost Farmboy]

I think my sniper comment has been completely misunderstood. I would never hunt people like animals, not even the bad guys. I think the ability to move and hide without being seen would be most valuable. At times it may be necessary to shoot. Where I plan to survive, if necessary, any shot over one hundred yards would be at or on a road. In the winter maybe two hundred yards. If a group came my way, gang or troops, I would most likely to stay hid and let them pass by. The Vietnamese claim this was very effective against American troops.


With that said. The last episode of Dooms Day Preppers had a guy that was a special forces sniper. He said that it would be impossible for him to defend his house and supplies from a gang of marauders. His plan is to run and hide if overrun by marauders, watch, look for numbers and movement patterns and plan to reclaim his property. Take them out one at a time until they leave or are all dead. In this case would he be defensive or purely offensive?
 
 
What is the difference of defending what is yours form inside or out side your perimeter?

[mechanic]

You can't hide in a fort, and pretty soon, everyone knows you are forted up.  Being mobile offers more security in one way, but you are limited to "supplies on hand" and foraging.
 
Being able to avoid large groups of people would be a great skill, but with most of us, it would be one we would have to aquire on the go.
 
I would still go with the dirty 30, and Swampman is right.  A Lee Loader and a can of Unique and some primers, good to go.  Lead can be pulled off every old wheel in the junkyard.
 
Ben

[Shu]

Not worried about the end of the world scenario or zombie apocalypse.
A great argument can be made for the 30-30 in single shot. A 130 and/or 190 grain bullet mold, a simple reloading press and some 3031 and Unique powder. You could use a decent 2.5x 7 scope and keep the iron sights for back up.
Loading either bullet weight for subsonic (so as not to spook other game or perhaps a small pack of feral dogs). Go with regular 30-30 loads for small hogs, deer and antelope.  One could keep the food pantry full very easily.
 
I believe I just talked myself into my next rifle.
 
 
 
 

[SHOOTALL]

LFB , the best defense is a good offense , really. Running attackers away no matter how long it takes is defending what is yours , how you choose to do it is tatics . Running and gunning can get you killed just as quick as holding your ground. You can run into sickness and die from what you catch. You can run into bad guys , you may know the area better but they may stumble on to you. A shot can give you away. If you venture out much your trails will be noticable and can be used to find you. It will surely be a bad situation no matter what you have put away. One could say even the best possible planning may not be good enough.