Mexican tunnels

[guzzijohn]

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/02/21/4278337/mexican-borders-drug-tunnels-grow.html


The above goes to show that boarder fences and more boarder guards are not the answer. If drugs can be moved this easily I am sure that people are too. It is impossible to stop this so other solutions need to be found. Eliminating the drug war is one way to start. Finding ways to more quickly allow legal immigration to occur along with speeding up the citizenship process is needed.
GuzziJohn

[magooch]

Yeah, like this country needs more poopulation.  And yeah lets make it even easier for the drug pushers; just give in and let them truck their poison up here without harassment.
 
What we really need is a real leader who is willing to fight a real drug war with troops--on the border, or wherever else they can be most effective.  And we need a leader who understands that immigration--legal, or illegal is part of the reason why there aren't jobs enough for actual Americans.  We need emigration and deportation and lots of it.

[powderman]

Yeah, like this country needs more poopulation.  And yeah lets make it even easier for the drug pushers; just give in and let them truck their poison up here without harassment.
 
What we really need is a real leader who is willing to fight a real drug war with troops--on the border, or wherever else they can be most effective.  And we need a leader who understands that immigration--legal, or illegal is part of the reason why there aren't jobs enough for actual Americans.  We need emigration and deportation and lots of it.

 
MAGOOCH. Good post Sir. POWDERMAN. 

[SwampThing762]

Another option is use covert intelligence teams to identify the cartel heads and the locations of their lavish estates for specific airstrikes.   Then burn them all out with napalm and daisy-cutters.  Use their own violence against them.......

ST762

[powderman]

Another option is use covert intelligence teams to identify the cartel heads and the locations of their lavish estates for specific airstrikes.   Then burn them all out with napalm and daisy-cutters.  Use their own violence against them.......

ST762

 
I'd have no problems with that. What are they gonna do, send 20 million criminal invaders here?? UHHHHH, just remembered, they did. These drug cartels are enemies of ours and hitting them where they live makes sense. POWDERMAN. 

[Singleshotsam]

Another option is use covert intelligence teams to identify the cartel heads and the locations of their lavish estates for specific airstrikes.   Then burn them all out with napalm and daisy-cutters.  Use their own violence against them.......

Where would you find the resources to do so?  All of our covert ops are tied up in useless wars with countries we should have never gotten involved with in the first place.  I'm all for bringing our troops home and then turning them loose on Mexico.

If were going to be at war with countries that are "dangerous" to us then why are we ignoring the issues on our own southern border?

[ironglow]

  These drugs are destroying a portion of our people, just as clearly as if the cartels came over and attacked with guns and grenades, it just takes longer for the wounded to die !  If we declare a "war on drugs", we should fight it as a WAR !  It is time we started fighting this war, because so far, we" haven't yet begun to fight".
   First, develop an honest, workable 'guest worker' program; then....
   
   Build a double concertina fence 300 yards apart, with a 100 yard mined strip in the middle..with plenty of posted warnings (in whatever languages work) ..warning them to stay out.
  Then publish by whatever means necessary, that tunnels will henceforth be death traps.  We have sounding equipment which will detect just such cavities underground. After sufficient warnings, we bore into the ground and introduce various gasses and if that doesn't work well, after clearing the surface, introduce a mix of propane and touch it off.
  These criminals have launched a war on us, killing especially the youth..we should fight this as total war.
 
   ..But we both know there are those who would rather our young people be slowly poisoned...murdered, than to hurt the enemy.

[jlwilliams]

  There is a fundamental problem that I just don't understand.   I think it should be a bit harder to enter this country illegally.  The flip side to this is, how hard is it for an honest person looking for a job to enter this country legally?  It just seems upside down for it to be easier to enter illegally than to enter legally.  I think that people looking for a job should be able to show up at an office, fill out some forms, get a quick background check, and have their visa in a reasonable time.  Sneaking in should be way more difficult and dangerous.  If there were a better system in place for the honest ones to follow, we could play hardball with the only ones left who would be crossing illegally.  Drug smugglers, people who otherwise couldn't pass a sniff test to enter the easy way; them we could and should be shooting at as they try to come in.

[guzzijohn]

Quote from Ironglow:
" Then publish by whatever means necessary, that tunnels will henceforth be death traps.  We have sounding equipment which will detect just such cavities underground"


In the article that I posted it shows how they are getting around the sensors. Useless. The tunnels are going into industrialized areas, how is a fence going to help?
GuzziJohn

[guzzijohn]

Quote from jwilliams:
"  There is a fundamental problem that I just don't understand.   I think it should be a bit harder to enter this country illegally.  The flip side to this is, how hard is it for an honest person looking for a job to enter this country legally?  It just seems upside down for it to be easier to enter illegally than to enter legally.  I think that people looking for a job should be able to show up at an office, fill out some forms, get a quick background check, and have their visa in a reasonable time.  Sneaking in should be way more difficult and dangerous.  If there were a better system in place for the honest ones to follow, we could play hardball with the only ones left who would be crossing illegally.  Drug smugglers, people who otherwise couldn't pass a sniff test to enter the easy way; them we could and should be shooting at as they try to come in."


Please refer to this site:
http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1323.html


As you can see their are many "hoops" to jump through plus costs. It needs to be more streamlined.
GuzziJohn

[powderman]

These tunnels have a beginning and an end and these people don't live in them. Find their lair and destroy it and them. POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

  Geologists and archaeologists have equipment which work through vibrations..detecting any voids.  I watched them work in my woods  and along roads, I highly doubt they can be so easily defeated. I'm not talking about a simple, small "dual-box" detector, but rather a heavy, ground pounding machine which would require a lane right alongside the interior fence.  Worth clearing a path, since this is war. How much do foreign wars cost us ?  This would be smal-potatoes in comparison and we could get a positive return.
  Then there is the other option..publish warnings for a year..then start interdicting drug shipments, poisoningh the drugs and let them continue.  Antidotes could be found at the local police station...  should slow down the traffic.  Time we fought this as a war !

[guzzijohn]

Quote from Ironglow:
"  Then there is the other option..publish warnings for a year..then start interdicting drug shipments, poisoningh the drugs and let them continue.  Antidotes could be found at the local police station...  should slow down the traffic.  Time we fought this as a war !"


I thought chemical warfare pretty much ended with WWI.
GuzziJohn

[Val]

As long as there is a demand for the drugs from Americans, the drugs will continue to come. The harder it is to get the drugs in, the more our drug addicts must pay for the drugs. Drug addition is no longer a minority issue, it is also prevalent in middle class white America. America has lost the war on drugs and nothing short of legalizing them will stop the problem.
Illegal aliens are a similar problem. As long as they prosper here compared to their home countries, they will continue to come. They come for the jobs, free medical, schools and welfare for their anchor babies.
We continue to work on the symptoms but never address the root cause of the problems.

[no guns here]

I agree... monitor the tunnels, trace them back, find the drug lord's lairs, put a 2000 pounder down the chimney.
 
Would suck to be them...
 
 
NGH

[ironglow]

Quote from Ironglow:
"  Then there is the other option..publish warnings for a year..then start interdicting drug shipments, poisoningh the drugs and let them continue.  Antidotes could be found at the local police station...  should slow down the traffic.  Time we fought this as a war !"


I thought chemical warfare pretty much ended with WWI.
GuzziJohn

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
  Guzzi;
  Tell the cartels that..do you suppose they will then keep their chemicals at home ?

[ironglow]

As long as there is a demand for the drugs from Americans, the drugs will continue to come. The harder it is to get the drugs in, the more our drug addicts must pay for the drugs. Drug addition is no longer a minority issue, it is also prevalent in middle class white America. America has lost the war on drugs and nothing short of legalizing them will stop the problem.
Illegal aliens are a similar problem. As long as they prosper here compared to their home countries, they will continue to come. They come for the jobs, free medical, schools and welfare for their anchor babies.
We continue to work on the symptoms but never address the root cause of the problems.

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
  Their "root problems" should be cared for back in their sovereign countries.. Fact is, the braceros program handled the alien labor problem quite well, until some cheap, vote seeking politicians trashed the program in favor of illegal entry.
   Might not stop the illegal problem , but we sure could cut it back drastically...were they to treat the "war on drugs" as a real WAR !

[jlwilliams]

Quote from jwilliams:
"  There is a fundamental problem that I just don't understand.   I think it should be a bit harder to enter this country illegally.  The flip side to this is, how hard is it for an honest person looking for a job to enter this country legally?  It just seems upside down for it to be easier to enter illegally than to enter legally.  I think that people looking for a job should be able to show up at an office, fill out some forms, get a quick background check, and have their visa in a reasonable time.  Sneaking in should be way more difficult and dangerous.  If there were a better system in place for the honest ones to follow, we could play hardball with the only ones left who would be crossing illegally.  Drug smugglers, people who otherwise couldn't pass a sniff test to enter the easy way; them we could and should be shooting at as they try to come in."


Please refer to this site:
http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_1323.html


As you can see their are many "hoops" to jump through plus costs. It needs to be more streamlined.
GuzziJohn

  It should be easier to get in legally and much harder and more dangerous to penetrate out border illegally.  The process of getting a work visa should be streamlined.  We need to make it so that people entering this country get at least some sort of criminal background check.  If it's cheap and easy to do it right then the only people doing it wrong would be the criminals.  If they shoot maids and laborers on the border it doesn't do anybody any good.  Shooting heroin smugglers, that's a little more productive.