If all Muslims are so blood thirsty how do "infidels" travel freely?

[Cuts Crooked]

  As I said earlier; Dr Zuhdi Jasser, among many othe rMuslims, is a decent and reasonable man.  http://aifdemocracy.org/about/members.php
 
  In the interests of peace and civilization, I believe we should give credit to these worthy persons and ridicule the militant, terrorist types.  that is not too hard to figure out even for the most cretan among us.

I agree, however this still does not answer my questions as to why the "99%" won't put down the "1%" that supposedly are at the root  of the violence. In point of fact, I suspect that those figures are off a smidgeon?.........Like........A LOT ....maybe?

[Singleshotsam]

I agree, however this still does not answer my questions as to why the "99%" won't put down the "1%" that supposedly are at the root  of the violence. In point of fact, I suspect that those figures are off a smidgeon?.........Like........A LOT ....maybe?

Well apply that logic as to why we allow gay marriage in our country when the majority of the country claim they are christians who are against homosexuality.  To answer my own question and tie these two comparisons together is that the people in both groups are too convinced that there is nothing they can do to stop the issues.  If all the Christians would start speaking out and writing their representatives and holding parades to counter the gay rights activists then we wouldn't be seeing an outbreak of states allowing gay marriage.  But since most Christians are content to complain about the problem and do nothing, the minority of gay activists who constantly speak out to change laws and write the reps day after day they are the ones who seem like the majority.

If the majority of Muslims would band together and start killing the Taliban on their own will then there wouldn't be a problem.  But since a minority of Muslims go around killing and raping and cutting off the heads of "infedels" then they seem to have the majority.
 
So in reality us Christians share the same problem of being a majority minority as our Muslim counterparts.  And all because both parties are too lazy to do something about the problems they have.

[Cuts Crooked]

Well apply that logic as to why we allow gay marriage in our country when the majority of the country claim they are christians who are against homosexuality.  To answer my own question and tie these two comparisons together is that the people in both groups are too convinced that there is nothing they can do to stop the issues.  If all the Christians would start speaking out and writing their representatives and holding parades to counter the gay rights activists then we wouldn't be seeing an outbreak of states allowing gay marriage.  But since most Christians are content to complain about the problem and do nothing, the minority of gay activists who constantly speak out to change laws and write the reps day after day they are the ones who seem like the majority.

If the majority of Muslims would band together and start killing the Taliban on their own will then there wouldn't be a problem.  But since a minority of Muslims go around killing and raping and cutting off the heads of "infedels" then they seem to have the majority.
 
So in reality us Christians share the same problem of being a majority minority as our Muslim counterparts.  And all because both parties are too lazy to do something about the problems they have.

Nice try Sam, but you ducked.....We as a nation do not approve of murdering gay people, and we severely punish those who attack them. Apples & Oranges...not the same.
 
So.....anyone else care to try.

[SHOOTALL]

I agree, however this still does not answer my questions as to why the "99%" won't put down the "1%" that supposedly are at the root  of the violence. In point of fact, I suspect that those figures are off a smidgeon?.........Like........A LOT ....maybe?

Well apply that logic as to why we allow gay marriage in our country when the majority of the country claim they are christians who are against homosexuality.  To answer my own question and tie these two comparisons together is that the people in both groups are too convinced that there is nothing they can do to stop the issues.  If all the Christians would start speaking out and writing their representatives and holding parades to counter the gay rights activists then we wouldn't be seeing an outbreak of states allowing gay marriage.  But since most Christians are content to complain about the problem and do nothing, the minority of gay activists who constantly speak out to change laws and write the reps day after day they are the ones who seem like the majority.

If the majority of Muslims would band together and start killing the Taliban on their own will then there wouldn't be a problem.  But since a minority of Muslims go around killing and raping and cutting off the heads of "infedels" then they seem to have the majority.

 
Now this sent my BS meter higher than ever before . In the USA we don't have the church(S) making the laws. There are many DIFFERENT churches with many different beliefs it would be impossible. On the other hand the religion is the law in moslem countries . To compare murder to homosexulality and citizens to subjests is pure folly.

[Singleshotsam]

I think you guys are missing the point that both Christians and Muslims have issues which many are against personally but allow a minority to become the deciding factor.  If enough Christians got off their butts they could once again have a majority voice.  If the majority of Muslims banded together they could deal with the extremists in their countries and we wouldn't have our boys over their getting the limbs blown off.
 
It comes down to fear and laziness. 
 

[Cuts Crooked]

I think you guys are missing the point that both Christians and Muslims have issues which many are against personally but allow a minority to become the deciding factor.  If enough Christians got off their butts they could once again have a majority voice.  If the majority of Muslims banded together they could deal with the extremists in their countries and we wouldn't have our boys over their getting the limbs blown off.
 
It comes down to fear and laziness.

And I think you are missing the point, perhaps deliberately, that we are not "blowing the limbs off" of gays. AND we take a dim view of those who try..arrest, trial, incarceration. Whereas the Muslims are "blowing the limbs off" of any one who doesn't worship their version of God and they "majority" doesn't do a danged thing about it.

[Singleshotsam]

Whereas the Muslims are "blowing the limbs off" of any one who doesn't worship their version of God and they "majority" doesn't do a danged thing about it.

That's exactly the point i'm trying to get you to understand. Except your left out that a "minority" of Muslim extremist are attempting to kill those who don't believe thier view.  How am I deliberately missing the point Cuts? 
 
Me using the Majority of Christians vs. Gays in this country was just a reference to try and put it in a persepective to make it easier for us to understand.
 
Geez... You guys are talking about Muslim wanting to destroy each other.  I'm starting to think some of the members on this forum aren't so far away from implimenting the same tactics against people who choose to disagree with you.  No wonder GB did away with the Religious Discussions section.
 
 

[Cuts Crooked]

That's exactly the point i'm trying to get you to understand. Except your left out that a "minority" of Muslim extremist are attempting to kill those who don't believe thier view.  How am I deliberately missing the point Cuts? 
 
Me using the Majority of Christians vs. Gays in this country was just a reference to try and put it in a persepective to make it easier for us to understand.
 
Geez... You guys are talking about Muslim wanting to destroy each other.  I'm starting to think some of the members on this forum aren't so far away from implimenting the same tactics against people who choose to disagree with you.  No wonder GB did away with the Religious Discussions section.

<sigh> Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.
 
MY POINT....Muslim extremists are engaging in terrorist acts, Muslims in general are doing nothing to condemn them or to try to stop them, in spite of the claim that 99% of muslims are not extremists. PERIOD! Got that part?
 
The wests attitude towards gays has NOTHING to do with my question.....and "the 99%" in western nations DO condemn attacks on gays and we prosecute those who engage in such acts...so there is no connection......
 
Now, can we stick to my question? if "99%" of all Muslims are not extremists and do not approve of the terror attacks by the 1% why are they not taking action to stop them by, arrests, prosecution, imprisonment. Are they that powerless......or do they silently agree with those who engage in terror? After all if they are "99%' they should have no problem taking control of the situation and rectifying it.
 
There has to be a reason.....right?

[yellowtail3]

I wonder if the two that murdered Matthew Shepard in Wyoming claimed to be Christian. ...

No matter what they may claim, their fruit speaks for them.

There's a nice dodge... 'they might call themselves Christians, but their fruits don't show it! - too bad Muslims don't get the same courtesy and benefit of doubt.

[Dixie Dude]

At least so called christians are tried and punished in the US.  Where is the punishment for Muslims who kill Americans execution style, behead their wives, put acid on their wives faces, marry little girls, stone people to death for being gay, cut peoples heads off.  Where is their punishment in their own countries?  I'm getting tired of Americans who keep justifying Muslim actions and try to show our faults.  Well, at least we try and punish people like that.  They do not.  It is part of their religion.  This is wrong in EVERY other religion.  Buddists don't do this kind of thing.  Jews don't, Christians don't.  It isn't taught in our culture or religion to do what they do and get away with.  I've talked to Hindu Indians, and they do not like the Muslims for this very reason.  Our standards are much higher and our human rights are much higher.  Theirs are not.  Women are second class in MOST Muslim nations.  Their religion teaches no love or tolerance. 

[ironglow]

I wonder if the two that murdered Matthew Shepard in Wyoming claimed to be Christian. ...

No matter what they may claim, their fruit speaks for them.

There's a nice dodge... 'they might call themselves Christians, but their fruits don't show it! - too bad Muslims don't get the same courtesy and benefit of doubt.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
 It could be a clue... when they shout Ala Akbar as they are sawing off somebody's head with a dull machete..
  Especially in a country where the only ones allowed to be terrorists... are Muslims.

[Singleshotsam]

<sigh> Some days it's just not worth chewing throughthe restraints.

No doubt...  especially if your opinion differs from a group of guys who view their opinions as gospel. 

[Dixie Dude]

I forgot to mention, female circumcision, owning slaves, 4 wives, raping non-muslims and getting away with it.  The list goes on and on.  Africa, Pakistan, Afganistan, Indonesia, Bengalidesh, Saudi Arabia.  Look at how they treat their women.  Look at how the terroists get away with things and go unpunished.  A woman gets raped and she is blamed for it and is stoned to death.  It is all the time in the papers, somewhere every day.  I don't see that happening in any Western countries on a daily basis.  Islam is still in the middle ages. 

[ironglow]

  As I said earlier; Dr Zuhdi Jasser, among many othe rMuslims, is a decent and reasonable man.  http://aifdemocracy.org/about/members.php
 
  In the interests of peace and civilization, I believe we should give credit to these worthy persons and ridicule the militant, terrorist types.  that is not too hard to figure out even for the most cretan among us.

I agree, however this still does not answer my questions as to why the "99%" won't put down the "1%" that supposedly are at the root  of the violence. In point of fact, I suspect that those figures are off a smidgeon?.........Like........A LOT ....maybe?

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
 
  Yep; sounds a bit bogus; but even then if you take a billion or so people and only 1% want to murder, behead, blow up and destroy others, that's still a considerable number !  Maybe like 10,000,000 running around wanting to create mass mayhem.
   ..An it sure would help their public relations if the 99% would start condemning and "outing" the evil ones. 
   That's the kind of courage folks like Shoebat and Dr Jasser are displaying.  Much credit to them for their great personal courage....

[SwampThing762]

IG,

Excellent post, sir.    Your statement about majority Muslims outing the militants would be a PR coups.  Unfortunately, I do not see a nascent movement called Occupy Islam and people waving signs "We are the 99%", in Arabic or any language.

There would, indeed, be peace in the Middle East if the militant Muslims would lay down their arms and suicide vests.

ST762

[SwampThing762]

Dixie Dude,

Excellent post, and all true statements.

ST762

[guzzijohn]

Might as well close the thread as only a couple of posts even attempt to respond to the OP. Now it is just Muslim bashing which is fine if in it's own thread, not this one and has already been well covered in other threads. Moderator, please close if you see fit.
GuzziJohn

[yellowtail3]

I'll answer, though i thought I already did. The guys riding are being respectful, treating the locals as they'd like to be treated, and they aren't engaged in demagoguery and making ideological statements.


That's how they're getting by just fine.


you're welcome

[Cuts Crooked]

Might as well close the thread as only a couple of posts even attempt to respond to the OP. Now it is just Muslim bashing which is fine if in it's own thread, not this one and has already been well covered in other threads. Moderator, please close if you see fit.
GuzziJohn

Well GOOOOOOLLLY!!!! John, that's the nature of web conversations, just like face to face conversations........they go everywhere. Someone says something, that sparks a thought about something else, which may lead to yet another train of thought......yer gonna halfta get used 't it if ya wanna have a real conversation!
 
Unless of course, you just don't like the way things are progressing and want to shut it down.

[ironglow]

Guzzi says;
  " Might as well close the thread as only a couple of posts even attempt to respond to the OP."
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
 
   Guzzi;
  What are you whining about.. Looks to me you got plenty of responses !  Just because they don't fit your template, doesn't meayou didn't get responses.
  YT seems to think those riders were respected because they were "nice" to the Taliban..since when does that mean anything ?  From past experience, the only ones they allow free access to are "fellow travellers" to their militant theology...perhaps that is their secret !
     

[yellowtail3]

YT seems to think those riders were respected because they were "nice" to the Taliban..since when does that mean anything ?  From past experience, the only ones they allow free access to are "fellow travellers" to their militant theology...perhaps that is their secret !

YT hasn't poasted anything about anyone getting along with the Taliban... unless one considers the Taliban to the same as Muslims (who YT was referring to)

[ironglow]

  It's the Taliban who are most likely to kill travellers...but of course, if one of those travellers were to frown at a koran, it appears most any of them could go bonkers at a moment's notice.

[jlwilliams]

A quote from South Park.  When told that not all Muslims are terrorists, Eric Cartman replied- "They don't all have to be terrorists.  Just most of them.....Just most of them"
 
  OK, calm down.  That was a bit of humor to break the ice.
 
  This is likely more complex than we can shake out in a GB forum thread but I'll take a stab at describing my understanding of it.  I researched this quite a bit a few years ago in an attempt to understand what is happening to the world.  I still don't understand because it doesn't make any sort of logical sense. 
 
  All those horrable things that Bin Laden and Al Zawahiri say the the Qu'ran, Hadith and Surra say are in fact there.  Their position is supported by Islamic scripture.  A devout Muslim is obliged to kill Jews and to convert, enslave or kill Christians.  There is a caviat that they aren't mortally obliged to do this if it is beyond their power to do so, but it is what they should do.  Now as already posted, most Muslims don't follow the teachings quite so closely.  Most people are like....most people.  They live, they work, they have families. Stuff like that.  Most Christians don't really know squat about the Bible's more....eclectic passages. The big difference is that the Bible does not endorse killing or torture of non believers.  The Inquisition was an abomination and not supported by scripture.  Killing infidels is in fact supported by Islamic scripture.  As is child marriage, rape of infidel 'whores' and all those other things that Islam's detractors and Islam's more fanatical adhearents claim.
 
  People who travel in Moslem lands and encounter good people are just like those who travel most anywhere and meet most anybody.
 
  Those who often say "there are fanatics in every religion" are making an unrealistic moral equivalnce.  If it's OK to kill abortion doctors (NO, it's not OK and not supported by the Bible) that it should be OK to kill those defined by Islam as 'Infidels' (again...NO, not OK but it is indeed supported by the Qu'ran)
 
  In my opinion (sure to make some angry, but it's my opinion) Islam is a creepy, doomsday cult that somehow didn't peter out when the cult leader died.  Having read about the life of Muhammad, he ran his crue like a cult.  It was a cult.  Now it is a major, world wide religion.  Now that they represent a majority worldwide I expect to see more violence from them.  It's an ugly but basic part of human anture that power corrupts.  As Muslims become more powerful worldwide, expect to see them persecute non Muslims, persecute those who aren't Islamic enough.  Those who normally don't have any inclination to convert, enslave or kill will do so as they gain the corrupting power to do so.

[Singleshotsam]

well said jlwilliams.

[SHOOTALL]

This debate is getting silly. Some are stating reasons Muslims are being vewied by most in America in a certian way ( things like 911) . Others are defending them by pointing out others have not attacked us yet. Its like a thermos bottle , it keeps some things warm others cool the same question is for Americans about  Muslims and the thermous about wheather to keep it warm or cool HOW DO IT KNOW

[SwampThing762]

A quote from South Park.  When told that not all Muslims are terrorists, Eric Cartman replied- "They don't all have to be terrorists.  Just most of them.....Just most of them"
 
  OK, calm down.  That was a bit of humor to break the ice.
 
  This is likely more complex than we can shake out in a GB forum thread but I'll take a stab at describing my understanding of it.  I researched this quite a bit a few years ago in an attempt to understand what is happening to the world.  I still don't understand because it doesn't make any sort of logical sense. 
 
  All those horrible things that Bin Laden and Al Zawahiri say the the Qu'ran, Hadith and Surra say are in fact there.  Their position is supported by Islamic scripture.  A devout Muslim is obliged to kill Jews and to convert, enslave or kill Christians.  There is a caviat that they aren't mortally obliged to do this if it is beyond their power to do so, but it is what they should do.  Now as already posted, most Muslims don't follow the teachings quite so closely.  Most people are like....most people.  They live, they work, they have families. Stuff like that.  Most Christians don't really know squat about the Bible's more....eclectic passages. The big difference is that the Bible does not endorse killing or torture of non believers.  The Inquisition was an abomination and not supported by scripture.  Killing infidels is in fact supported by Islamic scripture.  As is child marriage, rape of infidel 'whores' and all those other things that Islam's detractors and Islam's more fanatical adhearents claim.
 
  People who travel in Moslem lands and encounter good people are just like those who travel most anywhere and meet most anybody.
 
  Those who often say "there are fanatics in every religion" are making an unrealistic moral equivalnce.  If it's OK to kill abortion doctors (NO, it's not OK and not supported by the Bible) that it should be OK to kill those defined by Islam as 'Infidels' (again...NO, not OK but it is indeed supported by the Qu'ran)
 
  In my opinion (sure to make some angry, but it's my opinion) Islam is a creepy, doomsday cult that somehow didn't peter out when the cult leader died.  Having read about the life of Muhammad, he ran his crue like a cult.  It was a cult.  Now it is a major, world wide religion.  Now that they represent a majority worldwide I expect to see more violence from them.  It's an ugly but basic part of human anture that power corrupts.  As Muslims become more powerful worldwide, expect to see them persecute non Muslims, persecute those who aren't Islamic enough.  Those who normally don't have any inclination to convert, enslave or kill will do so as they gain the corrupting power to do so.

.
I think you are alittle out of prespective here....Mohammed was not just a spiritual leader or 'announciator'....he was a bonafide head of state....The flight of his followers from pagans and other agitators is documented when they were under attack....'Infidels' refers to pagans and non-believers or various agitators, i.e. enemies....in fact I'm not sure if 'infidel' is the exact correct english translation...there are alot of words in Arabic. Persian. Pushtu, etc...that just don't translate exactly.. In any case, jews and moslems co-existed quite well over time......it was the christians that traditonaly gave jews a very hard time for obvious reasons...this has been 'reconciled' by the invention of judaeo-christianity,,,a rather recent development actually
.
Anyway, there seems to be a group of Qu'ran 'students' here that have found a few statements in the Qu'ran during Mohammed's head of state phase...and think it is the whole message...What I suggest is to study your own Bible comparatively, or even wander over to the Talmud, in your violence in spirtual literature studies.  For example in the Bible the violence, killing, rape, infantcide is monumental:

Gensis...rule thru violence
Exodus...cruelty and retribution
Levitcus...animal sacrifices, slavery
Numbers...military buildups
Deuteronmy...isnae rules, death, war stories
Joshua...famous for violence and atrocities
Judges...the Samson destruction story
Samuel...killing womne, children and killing for arbitrary reasons
Kings...horrible sychological punishments
Chronicles...largest mass killings and genocides
 
 
.
.
.and so on....You know...you just got to keep these things in prespective.....TM7
.
.

TM7,

Do you have decidedly Judaeo-Christinaity religion-motivated attacks that are a bit more contemporary to the modern date to compare against 21st century attacks by adherents of Islam?

ST762

[ironglow]

Swampthing;
   You simply must become more observant.  The "International Conspiracy Hunter Assn" has found irrefutable, hard line, evidence that Christians are involved in suicide truck crashes !   Scrutinize closely the photos below, in each case the "fingerprints" of Christian fanatics are evident.
     In one photo the crosses are clearly seen installed all along the side of the truck body...
  In the other, crosses can be seen clearly affixed onto the tailgate.....   You can't fool the sharp intelligence branch of the "International Conspiracy Hunters Assn"....    

[ironglow]

Swampthing;
 
     NEWS FLASH !!  (from International Conspiracy hunters Assn) 
   
     Our "intelligence" branch of  International Conspiracy hunters Assn. has just uncovered a plot by Christians to spread havoc by random bombings !
   
   Evidence photo #1...This innocous appearing case was found in the vicinity one of the crashed trucks.  It was found empty, but it clearly has pockets and retainer loops inside.  ICHA's crack investigators have deduced that it is a ready-made kit to carry bombs and bomb material to the intended scene...
 
   Evidence photo #2..  ICHA "intelligence" investigators have recently discovered these "triple cross" installations, dotting the nation's rural landscapes.  Since they are usually located upon a high point of the landscape, our intrepid investigators suspect that radical Christians have installed these as worship centers and rallying points for their nefarious activities.
    We will not be fooled however, we have many of these sites on a 24 hour stake-out !  Our diligent agents are camped nearby and observing... on a 24/7 basis.  Those wily Christians can't fool us !