Author Topic: Reducing Military Healthcare  (Read 1227 times)

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Offline reliquary

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Reducing Military Healthcare
« on: February 27, 2012, 11:13:45 AM »
 
 
Bend over, guys and gals, here it comes:
 
http://freebeacon.com/trashing-tricare/

Offline mechanic

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2012, 11:58:00 AM »
So much for the government keeping it's committments....
Ben
Molon Labe, (King Leonidas of the Spartan Army)

Offline ceadersavage2

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2012, 04:46:24 PM »
We are the dumb ones letting them get away with this . They are are employies we are thier bosses .So why are we letting give thier self raises an what ever . we should give them cuts like no pay for the rest of thier lives They can pay thier health care .

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2012, 04:50:45 PM »
It's a shame governments are chiefed by double-tongues - Ten Bears
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Offline Couger

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2012, 05:10:46 PM »
Call me naive if I am, but will the repubs be able to repair [much of] anything once banster is gone?
 
Of course I'm assuming the repubs who takeover the Senate and the ones who keep the House all have spines!  And Boehner is tossed with the other Reid/Pelosi/bamster trash.
 
Could military benefits then be repaired?  Reinstitututed?

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2012, 12:00:32 AM »
Call me naive if I am, but will the repubs be able to repair [much of] anything once banster is gone?
 
Of course I'm assuming the repubs who takeover the Senate and the ones who keep the House all have spines!  And Boehner is tossed with the other Reid/Pelosi/bamster trash.
 
Could military benefits then be repaired?  Reinstitututed?

Possibly, but not in the next 8 ... too many bigger fish that ought to be fried in DOD. Starting with a no- kidding National Strategy that defines when we are employed, and budget to that. Withdrawal from Afghan will put $ back in the DOD that could be used for military benefits if Congress permitted.
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Offline reliquary

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2012, 02:49:16 AM »
The only hope is to "Vote Them All Out"...if anyone hasn't read that book, it's an eyeopener.
 
Boehner was certainly a poor choice for Speaker.  Many of our RINOs are too willing to compromise.
 
These proposed healthcare increases must first be passed through Congress.  Hopefully there are enough who will listen to Allen West.

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2012, 03:11:04 AM »
The only way to turn this big ship to the right it to keep voting for the most electable conservative.  If your guy agrees with 90% of your ideas, but can't get elected.  Maybe voting for someove that is 60% of what you believe is better than letting someone who is 10% of what you believe keep getting elected.  A conservative is better than a moderate, a moderate is better than a liberal. 

Offline coyotejoe

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2012, 04:00:51 AM »
Dixie Dude, I think that is exactly the problem. For many years now we have had to choose the "lesser of two evils", and this election will be another of the same. The lesser evil is still evil, harm done to our nation is still harm done, whether done by deliberate design or by just accepting the lesser evil. Not since Ronald Reagan have the Republicans offered a candidate I felt I actually wanted to be my president. But we keep voting for Republicans because we think the Democrat would be even worse. But they're in the same boat, they don't really like their candidate either, they just think the Republican is even worse. If Democrats ran a dog and Republicans ran a baboon our president would be either a dog or a baboon and both parties know that. They know they don't have to be responsive to voters because the voters have no alternative. People say that to vote for a third party candidate is to waste your vote, but what could be a greater waste than to vote for someone you don't want to see elected? That is the evil we have accepted and nothing will change so long as we keep accepting it.
The story of David & Goliath only demonstrates the superiority of ballistic projectiles over hand weapons, poor old Goliath never had a chance.

Offline dukkillr

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2012, 05:03:50 AM »
The only way to turn this big ship to the right it to keep voting for the most electable conservative.  If your guy agrees with 90% of your ideas, but can't get elected.  Maybe voting for someove that is 60% of what you believe is better than letting someone who is 10% of what you believe keep getting elected.  A conservative is better than a moderate, a moderate is better than a liberal.
And next time your "most electable" will only agree with you 55%.  And the time after that, 50%.  And the time after that 45%.  You and Cassul are right, it's incremental; it's incrementallly getting worse because people keep doing what you're talking about above. 

Offline Nuke41

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2012, 05:46:26 AM »
I recall the recruiter telling me if I stuck around to retirement I’d get free medical and dental.  Of course we get no dental and the medical isn’t free, but it is still a good deal.  It’s not going to politically feasible to kill TRICARE for retirees, so they will make it unusable with higher fees and decreasing payments to doctors until none of them accept it.  The military treatment facilities in our area don’t accept retirees because they don’t have the space.  We really like our civilian doctor but he’s already warned us if they cut his payments he’s going to have to stop seeing TRICARE patients.  I did my part for 21 years, 8 months and 5 days; I suppose I’m just a useless burden to DoD now.

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2012, 04:00:46 PM »
I recall the recruiter telling me if I stuck around to retirement I’d get free medical and dental.  Of course we get no dental and the medical isn’t free, but it is still a good deal.  It’s not going to politically feasible to kill TRICARE for retirees, so they will make it unusable with higher fees and decreasing payments to doctors until none of them accept it.  The military treatment facilities in our area don’t accept retirees because they don’t have the space.  We really like our civilian doctor but he’s already warned us if they cut his payments he’s going to have to stop seeing TRICARE patients.  I did my part for 21 years, 8 months and 5 days; I suppose I’m just a useless burden to DoD now.

Local Doctors and Dentists have quit taking active duty dependents as well, TRICARE doesn't reimburse enough to cover their costs. On a side note, we just went shopping and filled the gas tank - its cheaper now to shop off base and buy gas off base than it is to shop on base, just because of costs. And the Exchange systems is non-profit, all proceeds go back to MWR to underwrite the costs of other military benefits. At the current projection, they'll have to cut MWR, which cuts benefits to military and their families, just to keep the cost of groceries and fuel on base in range of the economy.

Our nation asked us to swear an oath, and entered a covenant with us. Its on congressional record over 200 years that this nation would take care of its military retirees. I'm near the point of planning to drop my papers, and I'm more than nervous. But a Pharoah has arisen who did not know Joseph ...
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Offline reliquary

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2012, 03:20:31 AM »
 
As an old, confirmed, "Knuckledragger", I can recall the lawsuits filed when we started losing our benefits in the early 70s, and it being decided that the government wasn't bound by the promises of its recruiters.  Next, they'll be telling you that those words in the Constitution are outdated and don't really apply any more.
Oh, wait..... ::)
 

Offline reliquary

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2012, 11:51:56 AM »
 
TM7:  we thought they were contracts.  Courtesy, my a$$. 
Where I come from, "Promises" are as binding as written contracts, anyway. 
The 50  million without healthcare...are too lazy to go to work and pay for their own, like I have. 

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2012, 01:10:04 PM »
Given military HC is delineated in federal budget by Congress, it's law and eligibility is part of the law. Just like every other law passed by congress, it's only as good as the character of the government obligated to fulfill or enforce.
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Offline Nuke41

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2012, 02:19:15 PM »
Count your blessings with Tricare and be happy you can afford it...its a pretty good program..
.TM7

Spoken like the non-veteran that you are.

Offline reliquary

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2012, 02:33:50 PM »
TM7:
"Duty-honor-country" wasn't just a slogan for us.  We expected that there was to be a reciprocal relationship of "duty performed, commitments honored, country takes care of those who served". 
The government doesn't seem to have any problem handing out the freebies to the freeloaders and the illegals.  I earned the "benefits" I get under Tricare.  Can you see the difference?

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2012, 02:57:32 PM »
Went to Congress' web site and found numerous citations, usually in CRS reports, with regards to military health care benefits.

Quote
Under current law, active duty personnel are entitled to military health care and
have a right or claim to this care. Active duty dependents are also entitled to this
care, however, this entitlement is limited to space or service availability restrictions.
Such an entitlement obligates the military to provide this care (subject to any stated
restrictions such as space-availability for active duty dependents). As enforced by
the Department of Defense, and interpreted by the courts, retirees and their
dependents, while eligible for care on a space- or service-available basis, have no
entitlement in statute to such care. In other words, they have no right to military
health care and the military services have total discretion in when and under what
circumstances retirees and their dependents will get care in military treatment
facilities or MTFs. Historically, those dependents and retirees (under age 65) who are
unable to get care at MTFs can seek care via civilian providers under DOD’s Tricare
benefit plan.

The long and the short of it, ACTIVE DUTY is ENTITLED to HC Benefits under law; ACTIVE DUTY Dependents are also ENTITLED to HC Benefits under law, space and service availability permitting. Dependents are covered under law by TRICARE Prime, which is a form of insurance, including premiums and CO-PAYs.

Retirees, however, have no such legal provision or entitlement ... something I did not know. It is entirely up to DOD's discretion, having no force of law behind it, to provide any HC benefits to retirees and/or their dependents. Provisions for their coverage is annually reviewed when drafting the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), and can vary from year to year. This makes the NDAA a political sacred cow since neither party wants to be viewed as abandoning the veterans. It also makes it a ripe document for riders of all sorts of lunacy (see NDAA 2012) because anyone who would oppose the rider would be seen as hating our Veterans.

I'd like to see Veteran Retiree Entitlement to Health Care codified by Congress, and not left to the whim of the DOD annual budget committee. Retirement pay benefits are codified into law, and are in fact entitlements earned by their service.

Back to the OT, these changes effect ALL Tri Care recipients, Active Duty or Retired. But to be clear, the service member personally has no increase in cost, just his family members.
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Offline reliquary

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2012, 02:29:46 AM »

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2012, 05:21:35 AM »
Quote
TNel...that's kinda what I thought..'entitled' at the discretion of the owners, just like any other job. Same with the dependents. Tricare is not that bad of a deal relative compared to what civilians get offered, if anything at all...Nothing will be right in the USA until they figure this HC thing out....HC cost alot and going up and up, about 20% of GDP and that's with 50 million not having any per say.

TM7, forgive me for gilding the lily but I want to make sure I posted it clear ...

Active Duty entitlements are not at the discretion of the owner. They are law, binding our government. This covers the "employee" 100% and their dependents to the degree the system is able, but they are still legally entitled.

Retiree and Veteran's HC benefits are entirely at the discretion of the owner, DOD, and are on the chopping block every year.
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Offline teamnelson

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2012, 06:16:17 AM »
TM7, Had a close friend who worked at Micro$loth back in the good old days when they were king, and they had Starbucks carts all over the place - free coffee 24/7. They had games, puzzles, arcades, food ... all sorts of  employee incentives or perks that experts had determined encouraged productivity. It all costs $ too, but in a profit scenario, it's okay. If they had cut expenses though, should they go after employee HC benefits? Or the free cinnabon?

Cutting military HC first, without addressing the billions in frivolity ripe for the cutting, is unconscionable. I'd be in favor of a standard HC system for federal employees, like they standardized the TSP system when they let the military participate. The money saved there would not be in the military costs - in fact, either our care would go up or millions of government workers HC would go down. But public unions prevent that, so they have to go after the sector that cannot unionize by law. Seriously, if you brought the HC benefits of the various agencies as well as congress all down to a common benchmark, and I would be happy if the military would be that benchmark, we'd have enough money to cover all of our employees and retirees comfortably.

Of course my solution to federal HC is holistic - if you reduce the size of government, you reduce the cost of providing them HC. All the CZARs, Depts of Education, Energy, Environmental Protection, DHS, just to name a few - think of the billions saved to taxpayers by closing their doors and not having to cover their HC?
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Offline DDZ

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2012, 11:43:20 AM »
I have an idea, lets give the military the best health care, and reduce government HC. Even better, reduce HC benefits for all tax payer funded jobs, except the military.  Its the way it should be. not the other way around. In fact our military should have the best of everything.
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline reliquary

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2012, 01:26:52 PM »
 
TM7:  I don't dictate what anyone gets in the way of pay and benefits.  I feel free to criticize government giveaways to  freeloaders and illegals because it's my money they're giving away. 
What deals you have with your company, union, or whomever supports and represents you...are your own business. 
I paid in to Social Security for the requisite amount of time and draw a modest check from them. I worked and paid income taxes on various salaries for 52 years.  I paid in to the Teachers' Retirement System in Texas, after military service, and draw a modest retirement check from that.  I pay monthly fees for Medicare for my wife and myself.  I pay co-pays and the out-of-pocket on Tricare.  I pay for the military retiree dental insurance and co-pays for what it doesn't cover.  I served 20 years in order to receive a contracted portion of my active duty pay.
The operative words  in the preceding paragraph are, "I paid, I pay, I worked, and I served".  Direct your smart-aleck comments about "being subsidized" and "feeling entitled" to the aforementioned freeloaders.  I'd support an across-the-board cut in all government programs, but that won't happen because they need the freeloaders'  and union votes.

Offline teamnelson

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2012, 08:57:59 AM »
TM7, you're engaging in emotivism. Does lack of income mean you should not have to pay like everyone else, or at a reduced rate? Should the price of bread be on a sliding scale based on income? Or should a responsible person have to count the costs for their choices? If I choose to have a family should I work to provide as best I can, or should everyone else provide for my choice?
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Offline reliquary

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2012, 09:52:08 AM »
 
TM7:
It seems that, in your desire to excoriate my choices of careers...those in public service...you're missing the point(s) I'm trying to make.  Let me try again...I PAID INTO THE SYSTEM, and  I STILL PAY INTO THE SYSTEM.  What I'm complaining about is having to pay more, or more than "my fair share", when there are others who don't have to, or don't pay at all.
If you'll let me know which parts of that you don't understand, I'll try again.
Unlike some, I've never been a parasite, even when I was poor.  I worked my way out of it.  I am one of the great middle classthat  you seem to think I'm criticizing. 
 

Offline reliquary

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2012, 08:33:31 AM »
TM7:  Cool!  Maybe we're getting somewhere.
I don't quite understand what it is that you think I'm telling y'all in the private sector to do or not do, though.  What I have a problem with is the government wasting my tax money on the multi-generational  dependents they've created, and cutting my benefits to create more of them.  If that's what you're referring to, then it IS my business, because it's my money that's being used. 
And I have brought/am bringing it to the attention of my elected representatives in Congress and my alleged ombudspersons in DoD...I was just using this forum to bring a pending problem to the attention of other veterans...not to criticize whatever it is that you have/do. 
What deals you work out with whomever supports you or represents you, for your pay and benefits in the private sector, are immaterial to me; I think I've said that before.  Furthermore, whatever causes you choose to personally support are immaterial to me, as long as you don't try to require me to support them...I applaud whatever benevolent things you do and have my own, but I owe no support to anyone outside my family and my church. 
 

Offline Dixie Dude

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2012, 02:29:39 AM »
I don't mind helping people, BUT, I think welfare, food stamps, and section 8 housing allowances should not exceed what a person can make on minimum wage UNLESS they are disabled, mental patients, or elderly.  Able bodied people with an IQ about 70 should work, period. 

Offline reliquary

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2012, 03:29:26 AM »
Dude:   I agree.  I got married and started my family in '64, about the time that LBJ got his Great Society off the ground.  Since then, we've spent trillions of dollars on the War on Poverty and have still lost the war.  There is still the same percentage of folks on the dole that we started with, and in many cases around my part of the world, they're the third generation of the same families. 
It seems that "Pay someone to be poor, and you'll have a lot of poor people" is a trueism that liberals haven't learned.  Or maybe they know it, and keep them  poor so that they will continue to vote Democrat for the freebies.
For my part, and that of several of my friends, we pick out a needy family in our neighborhood or in our church and help them anonymously.  The only condition we have is that they have to be doing something to help themselves, or genuinely unable (disabled).  It has helped several folks out of a hole.

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Reducing Military Healthcare
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2012, 03:57:40 AM »
Dude:   I agree.  I got married and started my family in '64, about the time that LBJ got his Great Society off the ground.  Since then, we've spent trillions of dollars on the War on Poverty and have still lost the war.  There is still the same percentage of folks on the dole that we started with, and in many cases around my part of the world, they're the third generation of the same families. 
It seems that "Pay someone to be poor, and you'll have a lot of poor people" is a trueism that liberals haven't learned.  Or maybe they know it, and keep them  poor so that they will continue to vote Democrat for the freebies.
For my part, and that of several of my friends, we pick out a needy family in our neighborhood or in our church and help them anonymously.  The only condition we have is that they have to be doing something to help themselves, or genuinely unable (disabled).  It has helped several folks out of a hole.
this is exactly how we help people.  it's a great feeling.
Give me liberty, or give me death
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Give me liberty, or give me death
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