Model 721 in American Rifleman

[JPShelton]

In the current issue of American Rifleman, there is a piece by Harry Selby on a Model 721.  Having purchased a "new in the box" Model 721 back in November, the piece was of great interest to me.  Selby makes mention of it having to be re-barreled due to some sort of insect nesting in the bore and destroying the rifling.  The photos, however, strike me as odd because the bolt handle looks to be from the later M-700.  Selby makes no mention of the bolt being changed.
 
One of the reasons why I bought the old M-721 instead of a new Model 700 CDL was because I prefer the big, rounded knob of the bolt on the older rifle.
 
The photos of Selby's rifle got me to thinking that I might like to have a new 700 bolt fitted to my rifle, though definitely not for the bolt handle.  Rather, I am concerned about the extractor, and how I would go about replacing it if it broke.  With a new 700 bolt in reserve, that wouldn't be an issue.
 
If I ever have to go there, is it possible to have my 721 bolt handle fitted to a Model 700 bolt?  Or is there an aftermarket solution wherein you can buy the bolt head / body sans handle and have a 721 handle or one substantively simialr fitted to it?
 
I guess I should have thought about this stuff before I bought the older rifle, but I really like it and it has become somewhat of a favorite vs. all of the other rifles that I have owned over the years.  I am concerned about the extractor, though, and about being able to replace it if it should break.  The easiest thing would be to find a 721 extractor as a spare, but so far, I haven't been successful. 
 
JP 
 
 

[Savage_99]

JP,

The old 721's and 722's are not desireable rifles. Besides their cheap plain look, lack of a recoil pad and no checkering they lack these more important features.

1. Dangerous trigger system.  There are constant accidents where these rifles go off when not wanted.  Search this out on the internet yourself. 

2. Lack of a three position safety that controls the firing pin.

3. Weak extractor with no back up parts.

4.  Lack of Control Round Feeding.

5.  Bolt handles break off from the weak brazing.

6.  Locking lug section of the bolt is brazed on.

My suggestion is that you return that rifle to where you got it.  Obtain store credit and begin a new search for a better rifle.

[JPShelton]

The old 721's and 722's are not desireable rifles.

 
It was desireable to me. That's why I bought it.  If others find no appeal to a 721, they ouught not buy one.
 

Besides their cheap plain look, lack of a recoil pad and no checkering they lack these more important features.

I don't think the rifle looks as cheap and plain as some.  In point of fact, it has a kind of purposeful look about it that I quite like.  As for not having a recoil pad, my Griffin and Howe Springfield that I used to own didn't have one, my old Ugartechea double gun didn't have one, and this 721 of mine is a .270 Winchester for goodness sake.  I can get through 200 rounds with it just fine, thank you, and even though recoil pads can be installed fairly easily when one knows how, I'm not anxious to install one, even though I do know how.  It doesn't really need it.  My shoulder isn't tender after a range session, and I like the buttplate the 721 is equipped with just fine.

1. Dangerous trigger system.  There are constant accidents where these rifles go off when not wanted.  Search this out on the internet yourself.

 
 
I'll concede that the Walker trigger has a "design flaw" in the sense that it is not very idiot proof compared to other designs and may not be very tolerant of poor maintenence compared to others.  But "constant accidents" is, perhaps, a mite overblown.  When the Walker trigger is properly maintained and adjusted, I do not believe that it is dangerous.  If I did, I wouldn't have guided hundreds of clients carrying Remington Model 700's.  In fact, one of the selling points of the rifle to me IS the Walker trigger becuase when it is properly adjusted and maintained, it is one of the crispest, most creep free, and most consistant factory triggers to have ever been used on a production sporting rifle.

2. Lack of a three position safety that controls the firing pin.

Plenty of sporting rifles have trigger blocking safeties.  A couple of my favorites don't have anything more than a half-cock on an exposed hammer.  I haven't had an unitentional discharge with them and I don't expect to have one with this 721.  None of the clients that I guided who carried 722's or 700's ever had an unintentional discharge while out in the field with me.

3. Weak extractor with no back up parts.

Now, the quoted poster and I might have something to agree on.  I'm not sure that the extractor is weak but I do know it isn't exactly the same as the part used on current 700's.  I'm not so much concerned about it breaking on my gun because I keep the boltface clean.  I am concerned about keeping it up and running IF I do break the extractor.  That is why I am curious about possibly fitting a 700 bolt if I can fit my 721 bolt handle to it.

4.  Lack of Control Round Feeding.

The 721 is push feed.  So what?  It is the smoothest-feeding bolt action rifle I have ever owned.  It will also do something that a pair of Model 98 Mauser sporters I once owned wouldn't do, and that is feed upside down.  I don't see the need for it to do that in the hunting field, really, but I know it can do it.  I used to be a CRF snob, too.  In fact, the first rifle I ever bought was a Griffin and Howe Springfield, so I know a bit about controlled feed and the "snob" part, too.  Then I grew up and realized that the deer, feral pigs, pronghorns, elk, and caribou that I have hunted and plan on hunting in the future don't really care if the rifle that killed them is push-feed or controlled feed.  Besides, this 721 of mine is so accurate that I don't expect to enjoy the smooth feeding whilst out in the hunting field, as I dont expect to need more than one round per beast.  If I do, I know I can get a second shot off faster with this than any Springfield or Mauser I've ever owned.  I MIGHT get off a faster one with my Lee Enfield sporter that is now my son's, but neither man nor beast would live on the difference.

5.  Bolt handles break off from the weak brazing.

I've actually seen this happen on Model 700s.  Once was on a new rifle owned by a friend, when the bolt handle came undone before my pal had gotten through a box of ammo when sighting the rifle in.  Remington fixed it under warranty and the rifle outlived my friend.  Another time, a guy at the range beat his off with a sledgehammer when his obviously way too hot handloads locked up the action, and I am of the mind-set that believes that if had tried his little stunt with a weaker Mauser or Springfield, he wouldn't have had the chance to take a hammer to his bolt handle.  I don't anticipate the bolt handle falling off on my 721.  My father has gone through three barrels on an XP-100 without his bolt handle falling off.  I'd venture to say that the bolt handles manage to stay affixed to most of the five million Model 700's made and while I know this can be an issue because I have seen it, I know that it isn't something I need to be overly concerned about.  I'm not nearly as conerned about this as I am about replacing my extractor IF it breaks in my lifetime.

6.  Locking lug section of the bolt is brazed on.

Yes, it is.  So what?  I have NEVER heard of one instance of the bolt head seperating from the bolt body of a 721, 722, or 700.  Personally, I think the action can tolerate FAR more pressure than my old Griffin and Howe Springfield could have hoped to, or a 98 Mauser, for that matter.
 

My suggestion is that you return that rifle to where you got it.  Obtain store credit and begin a new search for a better rifle.

While I appreciate the quoted poster's suggestion, I shant be heeding his sage advice.  I bought the rifle from a private collector at a gun show.  Even if I wanted to rid myself of my 721, I wouldn't be getting store credit for it.  As for beginning a search for a "better rifle," for me, the search is over and it ended with the 721.  Believe it or not, N.I.B. 721's are kind of rare, nowadays, and I am delighted to have mine.  I'm not the only fan, either.  Harry Selby is a former "Professional" who apprenticed under Philip Percival and who gained a little notoriety via one Robert Ruark -the same Ruark who opined that we should "Use Enough Gun."  The "Remington" in "Horn of the Hunter" that Ruark refers to is a 721.  Selby used the one he wrote about for a half a century and seemed well pleased with it.  I'll take that as a sign that perhaps I need not fret over the Walker trigger, the three-piece bolt, lack of recoil pad, lack of checkering, or any other supposed "shortcoming" the 721 might have in the mind of the quoted poster.
 
I bought this rifle with the intent to use it as my primary centerfire hunting rifle for the remainder of my days.  The only real concern I have about the rifle's ability to endure with me for the next 40 years that I expect to remain on the mortal coil is the extractor.  And again, I am not so much concerned about breaking it as I am concerned about replacing it IF it breaks.  It occured to me that swapping in a later 700 bolt would mitigate that concern.  I've owned far more expensive rifles than this, but this is the most accurate centerfire I have ever owned.  It has the best trigger of any I've owned.  It has the best stock fit of any that I have owned.  It has the smoothest feeding of any that I have owned.  I am very pleased with the look, weight, and handling dynamics.  Of all of the centerfire rifles I have owned, and their have been many, this humble 721 is my favorite so far, by far.
 
It's okay with me if the quoted poster doesn't like the model or wouldn't own one personally.
 
JP

[curteric]

JP
I have a 722, a short action, 721. If the extractor fails my intention is to have a Sako extractor installed.  The gunsmith and I talked about this when I had it re-barreled. I just didn't do it at that time.  I think you made a good choice, hope you enjoy the rifle.
Curt 

[alleyyooper]

I goggled Remington bolts for a friend several months back.You would not believe how many different companys out there repair, modify, and sell new bolts they make for many different Remington models.
 
    Al

[wvjoetc]

JP,
I have one of the 722's in 222, it is my go to groundhog hunter.  I'm sorry that Mr Savage has such a low opinion of the 721/722 but opinions are like belly buttons everyon has one.  My suggestion is shoot your 721 and you will see what you have been missing. 
Joe

[bilmac]

My first centerfire was a used 721. I put a lot of rounds through it but got rid of it when the throat was getting worn and the extractor started failing occasionally. I talked to a gunsmith and he said I would have to send it to the factory to get the extractor fixed.

[Swampman]

All a bunch of nonsense.  There's nothing wrong with the 721/700.  They are the best selling and most accurate production rifle in the world.
 
The Sako extractor mod. is dangerous.  Don't do it.

[eastbank]

my two brothers and i have been shooting a 244 rem 722 for over 50 years, bought new in 1958 i think. it was a farm do every thing  rifle and killed every thing from crows to  bear,with alot of varmites and deer included. it has sat in the milk house and barn to be used when needed and never failed to fire and eject a shell. its the first rifle i loaded for. my older brother has it and shoots it every once in a while. eastbank. ps,i,m sure it has over 2000 rounds down the tube.

[wvjoetc]

Eastbank,
 
The 244 would be one of my wish I had its, the 244 didn't go over very well because it didn't shoot lighter bullets very well.  Remington then came out with the 6mm and it was there answer to shoot the light and heavy 6mm bullets.  I've never had the chance to buy or trade up a 244 but if I did it would be in my safe next to my 722/222.
 
Joe

[JPShelton]

JP,
I have one of the 722's in 222, it is my go to groundhog hunter.  I'm sorry that Mr Savage has such a low opinion of the 721/722 but opinions are like belly buttons everyon has one.  My suggestion is shoot your 721 and you will see what you have been missing. 
Joe

Well, I've shot the 721 some since I got it in November.  I shot 200 rounds through it on the first outing.  I've had it out to the range five times since then.  I've shot a few feral pigs with it, too.  So I can already vouch for the quoted poster's comment being spot-on accurate.  Of all of the centerfire rifles that I've owned, this very well could be my favorite of the bunch.  It is most definitely the most accurate.
 
In "Mr. Savage's" defense,  I used to be a controlled feed snob, too. My weakness was for Model 1903 Springfields and at one time, I had quite a collection of them.  They kept company with Model 98 Mausers.  I never really got in to the Pre-'64 Model 70 thing.  I used to think of Savage 110s and Model 700's as "Department Store Rifles" -rifles made to a cost point, instead of a lofty durability and performance standard.  I had a change of heart thanks to a positve expereince with a Savage Model 10 Sierra.  That caused me to re-think things a bit and when I did, I realized that Nicholas Brewer, Merle Walker, and Homer Young were every bit as brilliant as John Browning or Paul Mauser.  That a Savage 110 or Remington 700 action isn't made like a Model 70, Sringfield, or Mauser of yore doesn't make them inferior junk.  Maybe "Mr. Savage" will have a similar epiphany, some day, or maybe he'll content himself with shooting what he likes to shoot while allowing for the fact that others have dissimilar tastes.
 
JP

[Lloyd Smale]

nothing wrong with a 700 or for that matter a 721/722 sure there a bit plainer looking but a pre 64 winchester is plainer looking then a new featherweight too! Some would call the old pre 64 wins a bit homely too. Ive been shooting 700s for 37 years. Savage 99 if i was a bettting man id be willing to make a wager ive put more rounds through 700s in my life then you have put down range in all your shooting totaled. Ive never broke a bolt handle off. Ive never had a safety not work or an accidental discharge. Ive never had a failure to extract or a broken extractor in a 700 for that matter. Never have had or even heard of a locking lug breaking on one. Problem is i have to doubt if you have either. To much of this bs is passed on the internet. One guy has a problem gun and believe me any manufacture can produce a lemon occasionaly and everyone that wants to be considered an expert on firearms picks it up and runs with it. Even the controled round feeding for dangerous game is a problem that is blown way out of proportion. Ive got a good freind whos a rifle builder. he takes all his profits from it and goes to africa each year hunting. Ask him what his favorite gun has been through the years and he will tell you his 700 in 416 rem. He told me that gun has killed more in africa then all his other guns combined. I dont know how many times hes been there but a conservative guess would be a dozen. He laughs at people bad mouthing remingtons for dangerous game and will tell you the guides he hunts with chuckle about it too. Bottom line too is how many of us will every go on a dangerous game hunt anyway. I sure dont feel a need for a controlled round action hunting deer!! I doubt ill be rolling around on the ground trying to chamber a round in my 700 while a whitetail charges me!!. Bottom line is these internet posts would be alot more educational if people posted on there own experiences or at least ones there close too then people posting bunk they picked up somewhere else on the internet or a trumped up news story from a bunch of anti gun people trying to make guns look dangerous.

[Swampman]

The design of the Mausers and the Model 70 prohibit best accuracy and best strength.  They are good rifles.

[Lloyd Smale]

problem here is you get guys that will post an opinion based on someone elses opinion, or are the type that really have themselves convinced that what they know and buy has to be the best because afterall there the smartest sob on the planet. (sound familar) Me i have all types of bolt guns. Ive got rems, sav, win, ruger, howa, weatherbys, interarms mausers, and brownings. I like them all. I dont feel any one of them is flawluss or perfect. they all have there advantages and disadvantages. Contrary to what some think every one of them can be extreamly accurate and you can get a dud or a mediocure gun from any of them. To me it would be pretty boring if i only bought one or two brands of rifles. You can take one thing to the bank. First time you ever say a certain brand doesnt shoot someone will break out a tack driver right in front of you. Same goes for claiming there all accurate. Ive seen duds from all the manufactures. Bottom line is many many accurate rifles have been built on winchester and mauser actions. there plenty strong and in my opinion just as strong as a remington and the only thing they lack to get the accuracy is a bit faster lock time and theres aftermarket parts out there for that.
Swampy i hate to beat heads with you. I know how grean your blood runs. Sometimes it must get in your eyes and blind you a bit.   You make wild statements like every remington 700 made will shoot 1/2 inch groups with corelocks. give me a break, everyone here knows thats a crock! It takes away from your credibility everytime you make statements like that. this isnt my first rodeo. Ive been shooting 700s for near 40 years and feel ive got a pretty good grasp on what there capable of.

[Savage_99]

nothing wrong with a 700 or for that matter a 721/722 sure there a bit plainer looking but a pre 64 winchester is plainer looking then a new featherweight too!

Not only do those old 721/722's lack all the features I counted above but they have no pride of ownership.  Just look at one, they are junky looking.

Some would call the old pre 64 wins a bit homely too. Ive been shooting 700s for 37 years. Savage 99 if i was a bettting man id be willing to make a wager ive put more rounds through 700s in my life then you have put down range in all your shooting totaled.

Lloyd, You would loose that bet.  I hunted with my first 7xx in 1953 and shot hundreds of animals with it.  Later I got a 40X and have put many thousands of rounds through it winning matches.   Ive never broke a bolt handle off. Ive never had a safety not work or an accidental discharge. Ive never had a failure to extract or a broken extractor in a 700 for that matter. Never have had or even heard of a locking lug breaking on one. Sure, those who have the common AD's with the 7xx's get sued and quit shooting!

Problem is i have to doubt if you have either. To much of this bs is passed on the internet. One guy has a problem gun and believe me any manufacture can produce a lemon occasionaly and everyone that wants to be considered an expert on firearms picks it up and runs with it. Even the controled round feeding for dangerous game is a problem that is blown way out of proportion. Ive got a good freind whos a rifle builder. he takes all his profits from it and goes to africa each year hunting. Ask him what his favorite gun has been through the years and he will tell you his 700 in 416 rem. He told me that gun has killed more in africa then all his other guns combined. I dont know how many times hes been there but a conservative guess would be a dozen. He laughs at people bad mouthing remingtons for dangerous game and will tell you the guides he hunts with chuckle about it too. Bottom line too is how many of us will every go on a dangerous game hunt anyway. I sure dont feel a need for a controlled round action hunting deer!! I doubt ill be rolling around on the ground trying to chamber a round in my 700 while a whitetail charges me!!. Bottom line is these internet posts would be alot more educational if people posted on there own experiences or at least ones there close too then people posting bunk they picked up somewhere else on the internet or a trumped up news story from a bunch of anti gun people trying to make guns look dangerous.

Some real hunting rifles!   

[JPShelton]

nothing wrong with a 700 or for that matter a 721/722 sure there a bit plainer looking but a pre 64 winchester is plainer looking then a new featherweight too!

Not only do those old 721/722's lack all the features I counted above but they have no pride of ownership.  Just look at one, they are junky looking.

No pride of ownership?  Perhaps the quoted poster wouldn't be proud to own one.  I have sufficient pride of ownership in my own 721 because it isn't every day that one has the opportunity to own a brand spankin' new 63 year old rifle.  So I think its nice to have an N.I.B. condition 721 because not everybody has one.  It is also kind of cool to use the same rifle that Robert Ruark wrote about and that Professional Hunter Harry Selby used for over 50 years.  I don't think it is particularly "junky looking," either.  I like the look of it.  I like the way it feels and handles, but I really like the way it shoots.  It is one of the most accurate sporter-weight high power rifles that I've ever shot and the action is among the slickest of any I've owned.  I like mine just fine and it bothers me not that it is "cheap."  It works (so far) and works well.  The only concern I have is over the extractor and the only reason that is a concern is because they're virtually impossible to find.  I'll just keep shooting it and cross the "broken extractor bridge" if and when I come to it.

Some would call the old pre 64 wins a bit homely too. Ive been shooting 700s for 37 years. Savage 99 if i was a bettting man id be willing to make a wager ive put more rounds through 700s in my life then you have put down range in all your shooting totaled.

Lloyd, You would loose that bet.  I hunted with my first 7xx in 1953 and shot hundreds of animals with it.  Later I got a 40X and have put many thousands of rounds through it winning matches. Ive never broke a bolt handle off. Ive never had a safety not work or an accidental discharge. Ive never had a failure to extract or a broken extractor in a 700 for that matter. Never have had or even heard of a locking lug breaking on one. Sure, those who have the common AD's with the 7xx's get sued and quit shooting!

Now, I am confused.  The poster whose quotes appear in red doesn't seem to have much love for the Remington 7XX rifles, yet apparently his first worked well enough to fell "hundreds of animals."  Then, in spite of his claims over the rifle's inadequacies, he buys a 40X at some point, and he claims to have put many thousands of rounds through it winning matches.  If the 7XX was so horrid, why spend what a 40X costs to shoot in competition if there is something better out there?  The comment regarding "those who have the common AD's" is simply inane.  I don't think AD's with 7XX Remingtons are really all that commonplace.
 

Some real hunting rifles!   

Those rifles above are okay, I guess.  They are not anything I would have traded my Griffin and Howe built on a 1903 Springfield action for, however.  If I would have wanted a Savage 99, or a Mannlicher, or an FN Mauser, or a Pre-'64 Model 70, or a Newton, or a Rigby Mauser,  or even another Griffin and Howe Springfield, there were plenty to choose from at the gun show where I bought my 721.  Taste is relative and subjective.  I don't like any of the models depicted in the photo above enough to trade my 721 for one of them, nor do I have a burning desire to own any of them.
 
JP

[Siskiyou]

 
The article on the Remington 721 had my immediate attention, one because of the rifle and the two the renowned author and African White Hunter.  I suspect it would be hard to duplicate Selby’s field experience and exposure to a large assortment of rifles.  Selby is one of a select few.  The majority of us are mere amateurs when compared to Selby.
When a family that can afford to make multiple African hunts and they choose to use a M721 that says a lot for the rifle.  He also stated that Robert Ruark brought one on his first “Horn of the Hunter” safari. 
As a kid raised in a hunting environment there was a fair number of model 721 and model 722 rifles around.  The 721 outnumbered the 722 because it came in the 30-06 the caliber the GI’s loved in the M1.   At that time there was a real surge in the hunting population made up of veterans from WWII and Korea.  Among the older hunters there still was a lot of 30-30’s, 32 Special, and 300 Savage deer rifles.  One of the first rifles I hunted with was a pre-war Savage 99 in 303 Savage caliber.

In my part of the country the deer herd was exploding because of good feed condition created by the massive burns of 1955, and logging.  Three fawns to a doe were common.

Remington offered the 721 and 722 in different grades but the working man’s standard was the 721A.  It was the basic rifle. 
I have to agree the bolt handle appears to be a non-standard M721 bolt.  Shelby mentions that there had been some efforts to spice the rifle up a little.  I suspect the rifle bolt or the bolt handle has been changed.  If you look at the hunter with his game and the bolt of the rifle on page 48 and lower corner of page 50 of the article the rifle has a different bolt knob then the picture at the top of page 50 and bottom of page 51.
During the first 22 years of my career I patrolled a lot during deer season, talk to a lot of hunter and validated a lot of deer.  Broken extractors on Remington rifles were never an issue.  I did encounter a very frustrated hunter with a jammed rifle.  The rifle had a Mauser type extractor and he dropped a round in the chamber to loaded it, rather than feed a round from the magazine.

Without a doubt everybody has an opinion.  I see  very few M721’s on the use gun racks.  I might be tempted to buy a used one but I have no real use for another rifle.  Middle brother has bought one or two for the action for wildcats.  I suspect the number is increasing with aging of or society and widows are selling their spouses rifles.
I do have Baby Brother Model 722 in 300 Savage Dad bought it back in the fifties and gave it to me years ago.  It has proven to be a dependable, accurate deer rifle.  At the time age had caught up with him and he passed his three deer rifles to his son’s.  All three were in the 300 Savage caliber, a Savage 99 carbine, a Remington M81, and the M722.  As #1 son I had first choice and selected the Model 722.
So the rifle has been in the family over fifty years and has never failed. 
I updated the scope on it, and installed a recoil pad.
Dad always hunted with 150-grain bullets but because of bear issues I worked with three different 165-grain bullets and they all proved true running down the bore of the 722.   My favorite load was developed around the published Hornady maximum using IMR4064.  The manual shows the load out of a 22-inch barrel at 2600 fps.  I am getting 2670 fps out of my 24-inch barrel fifteen feet from the muzzle at 6700 foot elevation.
I also load 150-grain and 130-grain bullets for my 722.
I found the 722 to come to my shoulder quickly, and put down running bucks quickly.  A hunting partner inherited a 722 from his father.  It is a 6mm Remington with a 26-inch barrel.  His dad took hundreds of rock chuck and digger squirrels with it out in the pastures line with lava rock fences.  This rifle was bought for varmint hunting, not deer hunting.  The 722 Remington in 6mm proved to be the ticket in windy country.  He says the rifle never failed but the barrel is starting to lose its edge because of the high number of rounds put down it.
This 722 has not failed to feed or extract a round in over fifty years.  Brother #2 who is a wildcatter seeks out 722 actions to build wildcats on. 

I have posted this buck before because I am proud to say I killed it with my Dad’s Remington 722 in .300 Savage.  I had loaded the ammunition and practiced with the rifle.  I sighted the rifle in a few miles from the kill approximately 100 feet lower in elevation at 6700 foot.  I was working a lot preceding the season but I managed to scout the area and read the tracks I found.  I did not see any deer on my scouting trips.  Those Border Patrol man tracking classes must have paid off.
I had mounted a new generation made in Japan 3x9-38MM Weaver Classic scope on the rifle.  The scope was chosen to mount low because the stock has a lot of drop in it.  A scope with a larger bell requires higher mounts and that makes the shooters cheek come off the stock.  The buck was running across at about fifty yards.  The rifle came to my shoulder in a perfect fit; I swung out ahead of the buck and fired.  The smooth action ejected the spent case and a live round was chambered.
I was stun, I lost track of the buck in the recoil and I could not see him in the low brush and trees.
I walked the direction the buck was in when I fired the shoot.  The 165-grain Nosler PT had hit him in the forward edge of the front shoulder and penetrated up the neck and out the other side carrying pieces of the spine into the exit wound.
The rifle is light enough that it carries easy in the mountains and swings like a good quail gun. I installed the recoil pad long ago.
I was carrying the rifle in honor of my Dad that day.  He is the man who worked hard to buy me a 270 for my birthday so that I had a good deer rifle.  He also bought rifles for my younger brothers while he continued to hunt with the 722.  Nothing fancy about the 721/722 just good reliable firearm.


I have never seen a M721 or M722 with the dog leg bolt and checkered handle.  No doubt the majority were plain Jane.  I wonder where the author of the post got the bolt handle, and what it came off of.
I have always loved the smooth operation of my 722, it is very slick.  My 700 has a slick action as does my Savage 110CL.  My Ruger 77T sounds like a truck when I am feeding a round out of the magazine.  I prefer the 722 or 700 when I am chambering a round on the sneak. 
Early in the Vietnam War old stocks of Winchester 70 were brought out as sniper rifles and they did a stand up job.  I rather doubt that US snipers operated with high gloss stocks.  Accuracy was the name of the game and the Army and Marine Corp purchased Remington short action M700 rifles setup for sniping as the war progress.  It there was an extractor issue, broken bolts and other problems it would have made headlines.  This has become the Military M24 Sniper rifle and it is widely used by law enforcement.
When I look back at the rifles issued by the U.S. Military they were plain Jane and functional.  I have never seen a M1 or M16 with a high gloss, checkered stock.  Surplus Springfield’s were customized to every degree.  A hunting partner has his original Springfield that was cut back when he was in high school.  He must have been a wild looking hunter with that rifle, but he was effective.  I doubt that a fancy, checkered walnut stock would have improved his take.  He now owns a number of 1903 Springfield’s and was looking to restock the one he cut back in his high school days.
 
For $123.00 I installed a Timney trigger on my Remington 700, I have never been tempted to replace or adjust the trigger on the 722.  I have tested it for safety and it has no issues.  If the trigger was adjusted most likely Dad had the local gunsmith do it.
 

Guns have been subject to modification by back yard mechanics for years.  Some are good, some are not so good.

[Swampman]

I've shot and owned all the brands mentioned.  None are even close to a Remington 700.  I'm not guessing.

[pastorp]

Swampy, why don't you offer some proof to back up your blanket statements? If you have so much experience, tell us about it.

Regards,

[Swampman]

I've posted plenty of one hole 3 shot groups @ 100 yards in the past.  They were shot with Model 700s right out of the box using factory Core-Lokt ammo.
 
They are "the most accurate and best selling production rifles in the world."
 
The huge extractors and extractor cuts of the off brands prevent them from being accurate or as strong as the Model 700.

[mcwoodduck]

The design of the Mausers and the Model 70 prohibit best accuracy and best strength.  They are good rifles.

UH,
The Post 64 Actions are push feeds just like the Remington.
How can that hinder accuracy?
 
Your other comment about the strongest action is not exact.
I read an article about action strength.
A guy took two of each action and barreled them to 30-06 and made over proof loads and tested the Mauser, Spring field, Remingtion, Winchester and Arasaka actions, all popular for making custome rifles in the 60's
All the actions failed except the Arasaka's.
The strongest action seem to be the Arasaka as ugly as they are.
 

[Lloyd Smale]

cant see how an extractor cut or a large extractor would do anything to make a gun less accurate. Why dont you explain that one to us!!  The advantage remington has is lock time. Its the only real advantage to a long action rem compared to a mauser for accuracy. Strenght wize ive yet to see a mauser, ruger, savage winchester or a remington fail or break because the bolt wasnt strong enough. Bottom line is many many very accurate rifles have been built on mauser actions and if you look at what most really big african rounds are built on as far as bolt guns there usually a mauser or winchester. So if there not as strong there surely strong enough. By the way the mausers long lock time is easily fixed these days with a speed lock kit. But in all reality the differnce in lock time between the differnt guns is nothing that a hunter or a user of a sporter weight barreled gun will even notice. Its more for benchrest shooting where every little fraction of an inch in group size matters. Just the facts here. Ive got guns from every manufacture, or at least most and like them all and will call a great gun a great gun and turd a turd and ive had both from every manufacture and yes swampy remington does make turds! Especialy of late.

[Swampman]

The design of the Mausers and the Model 70 prohibit best accuracy and best strength.  They are good rifles.

UH,
The Post 64 Actions are push feeds just like the Remington.
How can that hinder accuracy?
 
Your other comment about the strongest action is not exact.
I read an article about action strength.
A guy took two of each action and barreled them to 30-06 and made over proof loads and tested the Mauser, Spring field, Remingtion, Winchester and Arasaka actions, all popular for making custome rifles in the 60's
All the actions failed except the Arasaka's.
The strongest action seem to be the Arasaka as ugly as they are.

And they are no longer in production.  Post-64 Winchester push feeds are just horrible.  Nothing shoots as well as a Remington...nothing...

[Swampman]

Even the Arisaka is not as strong as the 700.  You just can't blow one up.  The Mauser and the real Winchester Model 70 don't really support the case but they do pull it to one side of the chamber which means the bullet starts out crooked.  They are ok for big game rifles where accuracy isn't really important.

[mcwoodduck]

Even the Arisaka is not as strong as the 700.  You just can't blow one up.  The Mauser and the real Winchester Model 70 don't really support the case but they do pull it to one side of the chamber which means the bullet starts out crooked.  They are ok for big game rifles where accuracy isn't really important.

But the test with the Arasaka actions proved it stronger.
Not sure what to tell you other than, that is what I read.
Now you can say that the 700 is a stong as it needs to be.  Advanced engineering allows for just the right amount of metal and in the propper alloy to be used, making the action as strong at it needs to be to get the job done.
If you have poor engineering and metal working skills you tend to over engineer a product to make sure you did not screw something up.  And the over building of the Arasaka may be why it was able to hold up to over pressure loads better.
I do not buy your premmis that the bullet is croocked in the chamber.
The chamber is reamed to match the caliber.  When the ctg is inserted it will be strait. and no matter if the claw or extractor exerts pressure from one side or the other the round will be centered.  Remember while the Claw is exerting pressure from the right the 700 is exerting pressure from the left. 

[Swampman]

The Model 700 puts no pressure on the cartridge.  It was designed by a Bench Rest champion.  The Model 700 is the strongest production centerfire rifle in the world.

[mcwoodduck]

The Model 700 puts no pressure on the cartridge.  It was designed by a Bench Rest champion.  The Model 700 is the strongest production centerfire rifle in the world.

OK I am looking at the bolt on my 700 V and inside the bolt where the back end of the case hits the bolt there is a plunger that pushes up against the case on the left side of the bolt.  The claw on the right side holds the rim and the plunger pushes the left side to make the empty ecject to the right.
Go look at one of your rifles. 
When you make claims like there is no pressure and clearly there is you look less than credible in your other statements.

[pastorp]

Simply senseless chatter, guys. Swampgas lacks the knowledge to even try to prove his point. All he can do is repeat the same rhetoric phrase after phrase. 

I wish he would at least get a new line. He's like a broken record.

Regards,

[rzwieg]

The design of the Mausers and the Model 70 prohibit best accuracy and best strength.  They are good rifles.

UH,
The Post 64 Actions are push feeds just like the Remington.
How can that hinder accuracy?
 
Your other comment about the strongest action is not exact.
I read an article about action strength.
A guy took two of each action and barreled them to 30-06 and made over proof loads and tested the Mauser, Spring field, Remingtion, Winchester and Arasaka actions, all popular for making custome rifles in the 60's
All the actions failed except the Arasaka's.
The strongest action seem to be the Arasaka as ugly as they are.

P. O. Ackley.
 

[Lloyd Smale]

thats right patorp he wouldnt admit he was wrong if it meant the differnce in him going to heaven or hell. 99 percent of his arguement is nothing but bunk. I said this before and ill say it again. If he would just tone down some of his bs and try to just contribute honestly hed be much more respected but his obvious lack of knowlege on the basic operation of a bolt gun make me think hes been a gun nut for far less then 10 years and is the type that if he liked a ford more then a chev hed tell you his ford truck  had 500k on it and got 50 mpg. Show me anywhere were a statement like a winchester holds the round in crooked was ever made!!!!!!!! That is just pure bunk! If anything like was said the spring loaded ejector on a rem would do it not a mechanical ejector like a mauser or a pre 64 winchester that doesnt even come into play untill the bolt is all the way back. I to am a fan of remington rifles but dont walk around with blinders on like a plow horse. Just because some advertisement for remington claims there the best because of certain ways there put together doesnt mean in the real  world there a pinch better. Bottom line is so what if a bench rest shooter likes a feature. Who here shoots benchrest? Id say most here are hunters. Id also state for fact that anyone worth his salt as a rifleman is a handloader and is certainly not using remington core lock ammo to fire there bragging groups Id also be my life that theres NEVER been ANY benchrest competition won with an out of the box rem using corelocks!!!!!! Ill say no more here. All it does is get swampy cranked up. He has to post about 9/10s of his crap just to stir up people because nobody could possibly be that pig headed or constantly post stuff that is pure bunk! Swampy you come here with all those 1/2 minute guns and shoot them and ill gladly pay your airfair if you can get half of them to shoot a 1/2 inch 5 group at a 100 yards. So show us IN PRINT pal where you aquired the knowlege that rem is the strongest or doesnt put pressure on the case head anywhere but in a remington add or in your imagination

Simply senseless chatter, guys. Swampgas lacks the knowledge to even try to prove his point. All he can do is repeat the same rhetoric phrase after phrase. 

I wish he would at least get a new line. He's like a broken record.

Regards,