Author Topic: Model 721 in American Rifleman (Read 4485 times)

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #30 on:** March 06, 2012, 06:22:18 AM »

I some times wonder if Swampamn does not say these things just to get real answers. make us prove his point one way or the other.

And I consider my self a real rifleman and I shoot 95% factory ammo (time, being mechanicaly declined and cost problem) And most of the stuff is Remington Core loct or UMC Bulk packs.
They are cheap, they work well, reasonably accurate and the more you get to shoot the better you are going to be. Some high proformance wonder load is not going to out do experience behind the trigger.

pastorp · « **Reply #31 on:** March 06, 2012, 06:52:36 AM »

Sorry mcwoodduck, but I don't believe that for a moment. Don't believe he is a seeker of knowledge. But rather just likes to stir up trouble. The word troll comes to mind.

I agree with Lloyd. We all make mistakes, & our hobby has a long learning curve. Nobody knows it all and anyone that claims to is full of bologna. With a good attitude we can learn from each other. But that requires a open mind. If your mind is closed you become stagnet and you know what that smells like.

Regards,

Swampman · « **Reply #32 on:** March 06, 2012, 11:37:35 AM »

Being right is the cross I bear, and that you do not. I have an open mind to thinking other than mine as long as it agrees with mine and the facts. The "Safety Breeching" that the Model 700 uses a.k.a. 3 rings of steel, will withstand 130,000+ psi with any damage at all. The Arisaka was also "Safey Breeched."

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/10561/remington-700/

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #33 on:** March 06, 2012, 11:52:58 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on March 06, 2012, 11:37:35 AM

Being right is the cross I bear, and that you do not. I have an open mind to thinking other than mine as long as it agrees with mine and the facts.

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/index.php/10561/remington-700/

So if I post Propaganda out of the Winchester catalog or out of Guns and ammo that says the New Model 70 is the strongest and accurate, are you going to start buying them? And Winchester Power Point ammo?

Swampman · « **Reply #34 on:** March 06, 2012, 12:21:00 PM »

I buy what works well for all who know how to use it. Remington firearms and Core-Lokt ammo. You know I'm right and that's what matters most.

George Foster · « **Reply #35 on:** March 07, 2012, 12:54:32 AM »

Common sense is very important in this world of ours. If someones experience is completely different from others you should always go with your personal experience and either ignore whatever others say or just not listen to it at all. In my own experience my pair of Ruger 77's get as good and in some loads better than my pair of Rem CDL's. The only time I have ever shot Rem factory ammo was when I was breaking in a new barrel and I never got any outstanding accuracy from it. In other words I will pay no attention to what others say about these subjects I will go with my personal experience in these subjects.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #36 on:** March 07, 2012, 01:14:02 AM »

Savage lets see the rest of that rifle. If you took a picture of the bolt handle you certainly took a picture of the rest of it. By the way thats a 700 bolt handle not a 721. As a matter of fact its even stainless steal! My guess is its a picture of a bolt handle you pulled off the internet not one of your own that failed. As to the accidental discharges. Most have have been honestly traced back to improper gun maintanace (not cleanin) or inexperienced gunsmithing. 99 perecent of the reamaining cases id just chalk up to bs. I chuckle every day how a fan of a ruger or win with find anyway he can to trash a rem. Its the same thing with the chev vs ford. Then you get the type of guy that thinks he knows everything that fooled with his trigger has an accidental discharge and knows surely it isnt his fault. Must be the gun! Truth be told that whole episode with reminton accidental discharges is nothing more then the antis trying to put a hurt on a gun company. Guys that go on the internet and agree that havent had actual experineces themselves are just adding to the crap. Sorry pal i may not agree with swampys bs but i do agree with the fact that a remington is fine rifle. It may not be any better then a winchester ruger or savage but its every bit as good. Its no doubt the biggest selling rifle in the US and for a good reason. It has been used for over 50 years and the funny thing is that until that tv show last year you never heard a peep about accidental discharges. Bottom line is bring me over any centerfire bolt action rifle and give me a screw driver and i can make it into an accident waiting to happen. Bring over a 700 and i can also ajust a trigger down to 2lb and you can smack it against a wall and it wont go off. Funny thing is ive had two guns go off on me when just moving the safety to the fire position. One was a weatherby vanguard and the other a sako. In both cases idiots were playing with the triggers. So maybe we ought to include those guns in the accident waiting to happen list too! Funny thing is that any Real rifleman knows that that whole thing is just bunk. Just like he knows that swampys spouting off is just bs too. He does it to raise your hackles. nobody could possibly be that pighead or blind. If you dont like remingtons fine dont like them but dont grasp for straws trying to justify it. I dont care for savage bolts or browning bolts either but wont sit here and tell you there inferior to anything else. WHY? beause ive never had any PERSONAL experience that i can use to bad mouth them.

Quote from: Savage_99 on March 03, 2012, 05:36:27 AM

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on March 01, 2012, 01:25:53 AM
nothing wrong with a 700 or for that matter a 721/722 sure there a bit plainer looking but a pre 64 winchester is plainer looking then a new featherweight too!

Not only do those old 721/722's lack all the features I counted above but they have no pride of ownership. Just look at one, they are junky looking.

Some would call the old pre 64 wins a bit homely too. Ive been shooting 700s for 37 years. Savage 99 if i was a bettting man id be willing to make a wager ive put more rounds through 700s in my life then you have put down range in all your shooting totaled.

Lloyd, You would loose that bet. I hunted with my first 7xx in 1953 and shot hundreds of animals with it. Later I got a 40X and have put many thousands of rounds through it winning matches. Ive never broke a bolt handle off. Ive never had a safety not work or an accidental discharge. Ive never had a failure to extract or a broken extractor in a 700 for that matter. Never have had or even heard of a locking lug breaking on one. Sure, those who have the common AD's with the 7xx's get sued and quit shooting!

Problem is i have to doubt if you have either. To much of this bs is passed on the internet. One guy has a problem gun and believe me any manufacture can produce a lemon occasionaly and everyone that wants to be considered an expert on firearms picks it up and runs with it. Even the controled round feeding for dangerous game is a problem that is blown way out of proportion. Ive got a good freind whos a rifle builder. he takes all his profits from it and goes to africa each year hunting. Ask him what his favorite gun has been through the years and he will tell you his 700 in 416 rem. He told me that gun has killed more in africa then all his other guns combined. I dont know how many times hes been there but a conservative guess would be a dozen. He laughs at people bad mouthing remingtons for dangerous game and will tell you the guides he hunts with chuckle about it too. Bottom line too is how many of us will every go on a dangerous game hunt anyway. I sure dont feel a need for a controlled round action hunting deer!! I doubt ill be rolling around on the ground trying to chamber a round in my 700 while a whitetail charges me!!. Bottom line is these internet posts would be alot more educational if people posted on there own experiences or at least ones there close too then people posting bunk they picked up somewhere else on the internet or a trumped up news story from a bunch of anti gun people trying to make guns look dangerous.

Some real hunting rifles!

Swampman · « **Reply #37 on:** March 07, 2012, 03:02:18 AM »

The off brands are good enough. Nobody has said they aren't. For me only accurate rifles are interesting. That's why when accuracy is important I shoot a Remington. When reliability is important, I shoot Remington factory ammo.

eastbank · « **Reply #38 on:** March 07, 2012, 04:03:31 AM »

there is a proper way to adjust a rem 700 trigger and it is that you must adjust all three screws in a special order, most just adjust one and thats whats gets them in trouble with AD,s. any one who thinks they need a 2 oz trigger on a hunting rifle is just asking for a AD in the field. i have many hunting rifles and they have 3-4 pound triggers on them and i am not handicapped at all while hunting. my bench rifle,s have much lower trigger pulls,but they are shot from a bench rest and not carried in the field hunted with. the most important safety is the nub setting beween the shoulder blades. eastbank.

Savage_99 · « **Reply #39 on:** March 07, 2012, 04:29:34 AM »

The old 721's and 722's are not desirable rifles. Besides their cheap plain look, lack of a recoil pad and no checkering they lack these more important features.

1. Dangerous trigger system. There are constant accidents where these rifles go off when not wanted. Search this out on the internet yourself.

2. Lack of a three position safety that controls the firing pin.

3. Weak extractor with no back up parts.

4. Lack of Control Round Feeding.

5. Bolt handles break off from the weak brazing.

6. Locking lug section of the bolt is brazed on.

Swampman · « **Reply #40 on:** March 07, 2012, 07:17:39 AM »

Why are checkering and a recoil pad important to a man?

1. pure bunk.

2. not needed or necessary

3. pure bunk

4. not needed or necessary.

5. more bunk.

6. false

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #41 on:** March 07, 2012, 07:25:13 AM »

One thing i notice when looking at your rifles savage is that they are cool but the old buterfly handle manlichers and especially the old savage 99s arent known for there accuracy. Obviously in your rifle selection accuracy isnt your main consern. Your into the classic guns and thats ok but look at your guns and you will see stamped steal trigger gurards and it the case of the savage probably pressed checkering and back to your cool mausers. those old butterfly handle actions were near as strong as the 98s and were used more for lower pressure rounds of the day. Id have to agree with swampy on one thing. Id about bet my house that i could grab a used 721/722 and it would outshoot anyone of those four guns. Ill say one more thing and this is a matter of personal taste. Ive got a buddy whos into those 99s. Hes got some nice ones oct barreled, take downs ect. He laughs at me because ill tell him all the time that there about the most but ugly centerfire rifle thats out there short of a highpoint! There hands down the homeliest lever guns for sure. To me they also lack the ballance a wincherster or marlin has or even the ballance a good bolt gun has. Ive owned 4 of them through the years and wouldnt give a plugged nickle for another.

Quote from: Savage_99 on March 07, 2012, 04:29:34 AM

The old 721's and 722's are not desirable rifles. Besides their cheap plain look, lack of a recoil pad and no checkering they lack these more important features.

1. Dangerous trigger system. There are constant accidents where these rifles go off when not wanted. Search this out on the internet yourself.

2. Lack of a three position safety that controls the firing pin.

3. Weak extractor with no back up parts.

4. Lack of Control Round Feeding.

5. Bolt handles break off from the weak brazing.

6. Locking lug section of the bolt is brazed on.

Savage_99 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 08, 2012, 07:13:12 AM »

Lloyd,

Were headed up to Cabelas now to check out whats in the Gun Library today.

Join the NRA.

pastorp · « **Reply #43 on:** March 08, 2012, 08:29:16 AM »

That's a nice old woodsman savage. Even has the correct mag.

I like the first model woodsmans.

Makes me

Regards,

bilmac · « **Reply #44 on:** March 08, 2012, 02:40:03 PM »

Just like my dad's. My uncles said he used to shoot the ashes off guys cigarettes with it. It was a different time.

Savage_99 · « **Reply #45 on:** March 08, 2012, 04:20:10 PM »

Quote from: pastorp on March 08, 2012, 08:29:16 AM

That's a nice old woodsman savage. Even has the correct mag. I like the first model woodsmans.

Makes me

Regards,

Thanks Byron. My late dad won the CT state pistol championship with his Woodsman. We always carried them when hunting.

Here is the only Rem. CF that I own a 40X. I won some high average matches with it. I have the leather shooting coat etc.

pastorp · « **Reply #46 on:** March 09, 2012, 01:28:04 AM »

I to have a couple of remington bolt guns but I'm not really a bolt gun fan.

I shoot mostly single shots & lever action guns. The last few years I have gotten into drillings. I've always been a double shotgun fan so a drilling just feels right to me. To be honest though, due to declining health, I really don't get to hunt much anymore.

From your photos I believe our tastes in guns are very simular...

When my eyes were good, I was deadly with my old woodsman out to 100yds or so. Shot quite a few jacks with it when I lived in the southwest. Enough to keep the bait bucket full during trapping season anyway.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane..

Regards,

Brithunter · « **Reply #47 on:** March 18, 2012, 01:06:57 PM »

Quote

One thing i notice when looking at your rifles savage is that they are cool but the old buterfly handle manlichers and especially the old savage 99s arent known for there accuracy. Obviously in your rifle selection accuracy isnt your main consern. Your into the classic guns and thats ok but look at your guns and you will see stamped steal trigger gurards and it the case of the savage probably pressed checkering and back to your cool mausers. those old butterfly handle actions were near as strong as the 98s and were used more for lower pressure rounds of the day. Id have to agree with swampy on one thing. Id about bet my house that i could grab a used 721/722 and it would outshoot anyone of those four guns.

Ahhh Lloyd,

You had better brush up on the Mannlicher chamberings ole boy

The Model 52 Schoenauer (with swept back bolt handle

for the US market) was chambered in 270 Winchester and some magnum chamberings for the US market.

7x64 Brenneke is a common chambering in them especially in the model GK 8x68S was also offered as well as 6.5x68 hardly low pressure rounds..

Now if you want a strong action then look no further than the old Ross M10 or 1910. Eley Bros in the UK had to come up with the .280 Nitro cartridge for the Mauser 98's which is a lower pressure cartridge than the .280 Ross yet uses the same case as a steady diet of .280 Ross in a 98 Mauser caused problems. Proof pressure for the .280 Ross was 28 Tons proof pressure for the 270 Winchester is only 19 Tons that one heck of difference.

Now as for the much vaunted "Three Rings of Steel" as pointed out the Arisaka used that which re-dated the 700 by a long time. Also BSA used this Three Rings of Steel on the Hunter which the prototypes were sent over to America and tested by Elmer Keith for one before production started in 1953. Now my knowledge of the Remington line up is not that good as I have no interest in tem really but I seem to recall that the 700 came out in about 53.

I would love a nice Model 30S Remington but will not give a 700 house room. It reminds of a sten gun made up of bits of tubing not the way a rifle should be built IMHO.

Brithunter · « **Reply #48 on:** March 18, 2012, 01:10:17 PM »

Quote from: Savage_99 on March 08, 2012, 04:20:10 PM

Quote from: pastorp on March 08, 2012, 08:29:16 AM
That's a nice old woodsman savage. Even has the correct mag. I like the first model woodsmans.

Makes me

Regards,

Thanks Byron. My late dad won the CT state pistol championship with his Woodsman. We always carried them when hunting.

Here is the only Rem. CF that I own a 40X. I won some high average matches with it. I have the leather shooting coat etc.

Darn it I want your scope

have three nice rifles it would go on. a BSA 12/15 with heavy barrel, a Parker-Hale 1200V in 6mm Rem and a Parker-Hale 1200TX. Just picked up a Tasco #707 but on receiving it it's damaged so it's got to go back. The first one I found I could afford and it's busted.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #49 on:** March 19, 2012, 12:36:24 AM »

no brithunter im surely no expert on them. Seen a few and shot a few. there cool guns no doubt but when it comes to rifles cool takes a second place to accuracy for me. Also id factor in the fact that if your gun breaks good luck getting parts to fix it. At least around here. With a 700, 70 or 77 I could about rob parts off another in the safe to keep it going and if not parts are but a phone call away. My guns are shot and shot alot there not safe decorations and if you shoot anything enough things wear and break. Ive got no room in the safe for guns that are more of an oddity then are true working guns. I turned down a heck of a deal on a 250 99 the other day. Ive allways wanted one but anymore there just not a practical hunting gun for me. My eyes are tired and i need a scope anymore for hunting. Again practicality won out over nostalgia.

jackruff · « **Reply #50 on:** March 19, 2012, 01:59:26 AM »

Quote from: wvjoetc on February 29, 2012, 01:30:03 PM

Eastbank,

The 244 would be one of my wish I had its, the 244 didn't go over very well because it didn't shoot lighter bullets very well. Remington then came out with the 6mm and it was there answer to shoot the light and heavy 6mm bullets. I've never had the chance to buy or trade up a 244 but if I did it would be in my safe next to my 722/222.

Joe

The 244 Rem. wouldn't stabilize heavier bullets. Remington changed the rifling to stabilize the longer 100 grain bullets and renamed the caliber 6mm Rem. I've been shooting the 6mm for about 40 years and wish Remington, Ruger, and maybe Savage would bring it back. (I have both a Remington and a Ruger.) I still say if Remington had named it the 243 magnum it would still be with us in a big way.

Brithunter · « **Reply #51 on:** March 19, 2012, 11:49:19 PM »

Quote from: Lloyd Smale on March 19, 2012, 12:36:24 AM

no brithunter im surely no expert on them. Seen a few and shot a few. there cool guns no doubt but when it comes to rifles cool takes a second place to accuracy for me. Also id factor in the fact that if your gun breaks good luck getting parts to fix it. At least around here. With a 700, 70 or 77 I could about rob parts off another in the safe to keep it going and if not parts are but a phone call away. My guns are shot and shot alot there not safe decorations and if you shoot anything enough things wear and break. Ive got no room in the safe for guns that are more of an oddity then are true working guns. I turned down a heck of a deal on a 250 99 the other day. Ive allways wanted one but anymore there just not a practical hunting gun for me. My eyes are tired and i need a scope anymore for hunting. Again practicality won out over nostalgia.

Well Lloyd,

I can honestly say that the only breakage was on a 1905 Vintage Swedish Mauser that had been commercially sporterised by some US company but that was not the issue the vastly over pressure PMC 144 grain ammunition was the problem and when the case head expanded and blew the primer out the shock and gas snapped the fifing pin in half. The rear of the bolt/pin assembly came back and hit my glasses leaving a dent in the lower portion of the frame.

Now here is an on-going project:-

Always wanted a Schoenauer but could not afford one then tripped over this cheap one at a gun show at Bisley camp one Sunday and did a deal. Sadly it's no longer a cheap Schoenauer as it turned out the re-lined barrel had gone bad so it now has a new Steyr barrel fitted and is still in the classic 6.5x54MS. Ron Wharton of Rigby's found the barrel for me and it cost £117 in the white still in the Steyr wrapper. Ron did not have the time to fit it so it went to Lew Potter of Potter & Walker for fitting proofing(required by law) and he had it blacked that little lot came to just shy of £200.

So now the cheap Shoenauer is well out of the realms of cheap and the stock as you can see had been heavily modified so as we have come this far it deserves a nice proper fitting for me stock. Looks like I may be able to source a semi inletted stock from the US and will have to learn to fit it myself. Enquired about having it fitted and finished and once I picked my self up off the floor at the prices ..................................... are you sittign comfortably?

One chap quoted £800 ($1360 USD) to finish inlet, bed, fit fore stock tip, grip cap and fit butt plate then finish stock with hand rubbed oil

aon a supplied semi inletted stock. Oh BTW she shoots 120 grain Speers when I tried her into about 3/4 MOA even with a groove size of 0.268". Steyr used deeper grooves than the US accepted 0.004" depth. They are the same in my Mdl 1892 Steyr too but that one only had express sights for 100, 200 & 300 yards..

With a bit of development and proper bedding probably do better. Those scope mounts have got to be changed too. They were on it when I brought it.

I have no qualms about using old classics and lets face it they are a dammed sight better made than most modern rifles

.

pastorp · « **Reply #52 on:** March 21, 2012, 01:30:46 PM »

Say Brit, good to see you posting again. Hope you have things sorted out on your side of the pond, and will be on here more often.

How did things turn out for your dad. All well by now I hope.

Regards,

Brithunter · « **Reply #53 on:** March 22, 2012, 12:01:30 PM »

Thanks for asking............................... Dad is OK at the moment. We have these little issues now and thne. He was ill the other seek had to have the Dr out but right now he is fine and as awkward as can be........................

i.e Normal for him.

As for the other issues nope no end in sight. Am going to have to take it another level and get others involved as the Police refuse to answer the questions. On the phone I get :-

We will look into it.

Then nothing. I wrote to them asking about the stuff taken that requires no licence and nothing.

So am writing a letter asking it all again but this time I will make multiple copies and send the one to the Licensing manager by Special delivery which means it has to be signed for, a copy to the Chief Constable so they cannot deny the boss knows what happened, my MP (Like your congressman), my MEP the ones who sit in the European Parliment, the GKO (Gamekeepers organisation) the shooting body I belong too. The Shooting Times a weekly publication here, and a daily paper.

That should get some questions being asked of the Police and they cannot fob everyone off although as our Prime Mister Mt Cameron said this morning the Police do not answer to parliment. So it seems the Police really are a law unto them selves. Something we have suspected for a long time but not it's been said officially before.

Of course this means that the UK is really a Police State!

More and more we hear that perhaps things might not have been so bad under Hilter after all?

Mother for one wonders why she went through the hardships of WW2 to be treated like this in her own home. She feels so bitter about what happened and the way our home was trashed by the Police thugs and things taken for no apparent reason she would not lift a finger to help any of them no matter what now. Dad brought home a fired 25 pounder shell casing as he was on them in the Far East during WW2 and yep the Cops took it. We have no receipts for anything then took and it seems they just grabbed what ever they took a fancy too.

Stored in the summmer house up the garden were three Parker-Hale shotgun cleaning kits in pale blue plastic boxes. They have not been made for many years now and one was new still. 2x 12 Bore ones and a 16 Bore kit ........................................ all gone. Since the raid we have been unable to find my P-H catalogue '73/74 seems they took that along with my Ackley's Handbook Vol 2, NRA GUnsmithing Guide and copy of De Hass Bolt action rifles plus some old shooting magazines. Have since found that the as new Weaver steel tubed K4 scope I brought from a fellow collector via e-bay has gone too along with the Zeiss rail mount 4x32 scope and the Pecar 3-7x36 scope.

Not to mention my recurve bow in it's case with a set of arrows and sights etc and a non functional antique Snider sporting carbine which has parts missing from it.

Next month it will have been a year since the raid and they are still retaining my stuff.................................. for what reason?

Today has been a bad day so feeling very low as the car a GM 4x4 has just cost us a bundle to get it's annual test passed. GM under the Vauxhall banner sure knows how to fleece it's customers. The rear brake compensator is not working as it should and GM in their wisdom fitted a special one to this "Frontera" and it seems it fits no other vehicle. Phone the main dealer to get a price as it's not available else where it seems and near had a heart attack.......................................

Are you sitting comfortably?

Vauxhall. GM part #97137068 costs £253 plus the VAT (which is 20% tax) =£316.25 ($500.08 USD) for a 1999 registered car that's not worth much more than that one part

:-

I believe they sold them in the US as the Isuzu Rodeo and Honda Passport. At least it now has a Honda Passport clutch main cylinder and a Isuzu Rodeo clutch slave cylinder due to the stuppidly high prices that Vauxhall wanted for them.

Just sitting here wondering what the heck next can go wrong?