Author Topic: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.  (Read 953 times)

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Offline powderman

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Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« on: February 28, 2012, 11:09:58 AM »
      YOUR FRIENDS' ACTIVITY    Fighting drugs and border violence at Arizona’s Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument: What about the ranger’s M14 rifle, Yogi?      By Liz Goodwin
National Affairs Reporter  By Liz Goodwin | The Ticket – 8 hrs ago        Ranger Ken Hires in Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument. (Liz Goodwin/Yahoo News)
ORGAN PIPE CACTUS NATIONAL MONUMENT, Ariz. -- On a hot desert morning last week, a group of 20 tourists gathered in the visitor center in Arizona's Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument to attend a mandatory safety briefing before taking a guarded van tour to Quitobaquito springs. The springs is part of the 69 percent of the remote border park west of Tucson that has been closed to the public since Kris Eggle, a 28-year-old law enforcement park ranger, was shot and killed while pursuing drug runners armed with AK-47s in 2002.
Organ Pipe was named "the most dangerous national park" that year and also in 2003 by the U.S. Park Rangers Lodge of the Fraternal Order of Police, before the group discontinued the series. The drastic increase of drug activity on Arizona's southern border since the 1990s has turned Organ Pipe rangers into de factor Border Patrol agents, and spurred state lawmakers to pass several laws cracking down on illegal immigrants within the state.
Since 2009, the park has offered van tours to the springs, as long as rangers armed with rifles go along to protect the visitors. Now, ten years after Eggle's murder, the park's leadership has decided to open up a portion of the closed areas to the public in March, citing improved safety conditions and a big increase in Border Patrol agents in the area.
In the run-up to Tuesday's Republican presidential primary in Arizona, immigration has once again been a hotly contested topic in the state: Mitt Romney in a debate last week praised Arizona's immigration laws as a "model" for the country, while President Obama's Justice Department is suing Arizona to overturn one of those laws, called SB1070. The law--which has not gone into effect because of a federal court order--requires police to check a person's immigration status during stops if there is a "reasonable suspicion" that someone is in the country illegally. It also makes it a state crime to fail to carry immigration papers or for illegal immigrants to solicit work. Drug violence has claimed tens of thousands of lives in Mexico since President Felipe Calderon declared war on the cartels in 2006, but spillover violence has so far been minimal in the United States. Still, Jan Brewer, the Republican governor of Arizona, falsely claimed that beheadings occurred in the Arizona desert in 2010, the same year she signed SB1070 into law. Arizona was also the first state to pass a mandatory E-Verify law in 2007, to ensure employers don't hire illegal immigrants.
Brewer says the law will help police officers combat drug trafficking and crime, but critics say it will encourage racial profiling and interferes with federal control over immigration. Yahoo News went to Organ Pipe last week to witness the challenges of the border as the presidential candidates debate how best to control it.
'They'll have M14s at hand. Don't be worried.'
"There is a chance we might have to cancel the tour if there's some sort of apprehension in progress," Park Ranger Karl Sommerhauser, wearing a bulky dark green bulletproof vest, told the tourists last week. Sommerhauser had an ear piece curling out of his left ear. "We expect you to take direction from Ken," he said sternly.
Ken Hires, an unflaggingly cheerful park ranger dressed in reassuringly normal-looking tan ranger clothes, bounded to the front of the room. Hires is what's called an interpretive ranger, which means he has no law enforcement duties and does not carry a weapon. ("I spent my five years in Vietnam. Enough shooting," he said later.) Hires explained that some law enforcement officers would be hiding in the hills and closely watching the two-hour nature hike, while another pair of armed rangers would follow the tourists closely from the ground. "They'll have M14s at hand," he told the group. "Don't be worried."
"You might see something interesting off the trail, but please don't go wandering off," Hires continued, explaining that it made it difficult for the rangers to track people from the hills. "Please be respectful that those people are putting themselves on the line for us."
As the group loaded into the vans, one woman from Idaho whispered to her husband: "Does it make you worried? They get chest protections, and we don't get none of them."
Hires, sitting in the passenger side of the van, began talking quickly into his radio to the rangers. He turned to the back and explained: "We operate this as if it were an incident."
"You say there was an incident out there?" a walrus-mustachioed passenger wearing a cowboy hat asked warily.
"We're it," Ken said, to nervous laughter.
'There's nothing normal about Organ Pipe'
Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument, a 330,000-acre, surprisingly green stretch of Sonoran desert populated by barrel, saguaro and organ pipe cacti, spans 30 miles of the U.S.-Mexico border. The park became a corridor for drug runners in the 1990s after border security tightened at major ports of entry and in urban areas, driving human and drug traffickers to rural crossings. Alan Bersin, the Customs and Border Protection commissioner until last year, admitted that the Tucson sector of the border was "out of control" until recently. In 2010, half of all border apprehensions and drug seizures occurred in the Tucson sector, which encompasses much of Organ Pipe.
Drug runners would cut across Mexican Highway 2 through Organ Pipe's dirt roads in a car and then quickly hop onto U.S. Highway 85, which shoots up to Phoenix or Tucson. The vehicles blazed more than 200 miles of unauthorized roads through the park, and rangers found themselves in dangerous, high-speed chases nearly every day. An $18 million, 23-mile vehicle fence put up after Eggle's murder by the Department of the Interior cut down on this vehicle traffic. Now, cartels have had to get smarter, sometimes cutting into the fence, removing it, driving through, and then putting it back together again. Drug runners also started coming more on foot, dropping their packages in designated spots on the highway for someone else to pick up.
The Department of Homeland Security recently put up nine surveillance towers in the park, making it easier for agents to detect this new foot traffic, so the drug runners are now hiding in the hills, where the towers can't see them. (A Border Patrol helicopter operation last year in these hills netted 800 pounds of trash and a whole "herd" of people, according to Hires.) Border Patrol set up a check point on Highway 85 within the park in the past year, which has pushed drug traffickers to the neighboring Cabeza Prieta National Wildlife Refuge and Tohono O'odham reservation, adding as much as four days to their on-foot journeys. "They're very adaptive, more so than us," said Organ Pipe park superintendent Lee Baiza wearily, during an interview with Yahoo News last week.
Baiza said he spends about 80 percent of his time working with Homeland Security and handling border concerns. "There's nothing normal about Organ Pipe," he added.
The superintendent, who took over in 2007, has faced criticism for preventing Border Patrol agents from building new roads in the wilderness areas of the park, which is part of a larger struggle between Homeland Security and national park and land agencies that operate on the border. (More than 85 percent of border property in Arizona is federally owned.) Bob Bishop, a Republican representative from Utah, introduced a bill last year that would waive environmental laws up to 100 miles north of the border, freeing up Homeland Security to build roads through the wilderness to combat illegal immigration and drug running. Bishop criticized the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service for preventing Border Patrol agents from driving off-road in the Quitobaquito area of the park because of a pond nearby that contains the endangered Sonoran desert pupfish.
"I may care about the pupfish, but I also care about kids getting hooked on illegal drugs that are coming over that border," Bishop told Yahoo News. Drug runners cause more environmental damage to the border by leaving trash, he said, than Border Patrol agents would by building roads.
"Every congressman seems to have his own idea of what we're doing wrong," Baiza said. "The reality is all of that has improved immensely since 2007."
Apprehensions in the park were down last month for the first time in three years, Baiza said. Border Patrol would not release park-specific data, but a spokesman, Jason Rheinfrank, said that the Tucson sector overall saw a 40 percent drop in apprehensions last fiscal year, while the number of agents has nearly tripled since 2000. Illegal crossing arrests over the entire border were at a four-decade low last fiscal year, in part because of the flagging American economy.
On March 1, 46 percent of the park--instead of 31 percent--is scheduled to be open to the public. Baiza cited the increased fencing, number of Border Patrol agents, and technology in the park as the reasons for the change.
Organ pipe cactus. (Liz Goodwin/Yahoo)
'What we are trying to do is retake this landscape'
"The real problem we have with safety is drug dealing, not the people looking for work," Hires said from a loudspeaker system at the front of the van. Three different border patrol agents riding ATVs raced by, waving. "What we are trying to do is retake this landscape so we can all be free to be out here," he added.
Twenty minutes later, the vans arrived at Quitobaquito, where two young men toting heavy M14 rifles were already waiting. The rangers arrived at the springs two hours earlier to scour the area and make sure no one was hiding.
"Please be respectful and don't photograph them," Hires warned. The park service is worried that cartel members would retaliate against the rangers if their faces were publicized. Baiza says Organ Pipe never sends out press releases announcing new ranger hires for the same reason.
The armed park rangers didn't greet the group and stayed about 20 paces ahead on the trail. Hires showed the tourists the endangered Sonoran desert pupfish in the pond (the endangered Sonoran mud turtles were nowhere to be found), and answered questions about the names of different plants and flowers. He explained that the springs has been a crossroads for thousands of years, an oasis drawing thirsty desert-dwellers and entrepreneurial shell traders. The tour ended, and two volunteer rangers stood guard as visitors used the restroom in the bushes before the long van ride back.
"You got to show me your visa," one volunteer ranger joked as people began loading back into the van.
On the way out, Hires pointed out the two park rangers at the top of the hill, green specks on the horizon.
Another border patrol ATV zoomed past the van and stopped the law enforcement park rangers who were escorting the group back to the visitor center.  Two brown packages were tied to the back of the ATV.
"See those bundles? Want to guess?" Hires asked. "Marijuana." In 2005, the last year the park released border incident data, Organ Pipe park rangers seized 17,000 pounds of marijuana.
The rangers let out a dog from the back of the SUV, as the visitors craned their necks to watch from the van. The dog jumped out and ran to the bundles. He sat down abruptly and pointed his nose at the packages, then looked back at his masters. "That's the sign," Hires said. The rangers tossed the jubilant dog a toy, and the Border Patrol agent drove off again in the ATV.
"There's been a sighting of a UDA," Hires said a few minutes later, listening to his radio. (UDA means undocumented alien.) "He's sitting next to a trash can which means he's waiting for us to pick him up and give him a ride home. He's given up."
'I feel safer here than in Fresno'
Despite all the excitement on the trip, Hires said he thinks the park is very safe because of the law enforcement rangers and the Border Patrol agents.
"I feel safer here than in Fresno," Hires said after the tour. (He works seasonally in Sequoia and Kings Canyon national park near Fresno, California.)
But visitors--or rather, the people who are choosing not to be visitors--still have concerns. In 2010, visits to the park plunged to a 10-year low of 209,600. Baiza says that when state politicians focus on the dangers of Mexico and the border, fewer people visit the park.
"They come here all petrified," Bonnie Auman, a park volunteer, said. "Then they see all the law enforcement, the Border Patrol."
Bishop, the Utah congressman, said that while the stagnant economy may have significantly deterred unauthorized migrants who are looking for work, he doesn't think it has made a dent in the number of drug runners targeting Arizona. "That's why we need to control the border," he told Yahoo News. "They're not going to be affected by E-Verify and the economy, and the Border Patrol needs to have the ability to battle that."
It remains to be seen whether visitors will be lured back. Hires journeyed to the Quartzsite, Arizona, RV show last month to recruit wary RVers to visit the park. "The No. 1 question: 'Is it safe there?'" he said. "And the second one was, 'Are you open?' People thought we totally closed the place."
Memorial to Kris Eggle. (Liz Goodwin/Yahoo)
Read more coverage of the 2012 Michigan and Arizona primaries
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
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Offline mauser98us

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2012, 05:27:35 PM »
Took our cubbie scouts there on an overnighter there about 15 years ago. The Border Patrol was flying choppers with floodlights all over the place at night. Imagine it has only gotten worse since.It's  major corridor to Interstate 8 and the ag fields in Aguila.If they make it to I-8 and can get a ride,it's a short run to Tucson or San Diego.

Offline cwlongshot

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2012, 05:34:18 PM »
My brother -in-law is a park ranger in Arizona!!  I am not sure which park is his or he is at I should say... I know he has told me buget cuts have greatly redused the numbers of rangers in the parks there...
 
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Offline Hooker

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2012, 05:59:39 PM »
That sounds like a good place to send our troops for training.
Live fire and live targets. ;D

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Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2012, 02:46:38 AM »
Quote
That sounds like a good place to send our troops for training.
Live fire and live targets. ;D

Sounds like a good reason to withdraw from Afghanistan and station them there to actually protect our border.
I'm voting 3rd party in this election by writing in Jesus Christ for president.  Sadly even if this were an option most of you would still vote Republican because "It's a two party system."

Offline powderman

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #5 on: February 29, 2012, 04:47:05 AM »
That sounds like a good place to send our troops for training.
Live fire and live targets. ;D

Pat

 
Agreed Sir. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
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Offline mauser98us

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #6 on: February 29, 2012, 04:47:59 AM »
That sounds like a good place to send our troops for training.
Live fire and live targets. ;D
Funny you mention that. This park is just south by a couple miles of the Goldwater gunnery range. The largest live fire range for aircraft in the freeworld.Plus MCAS Yuma is not that far away either. They use it too.
Pat

Offline lakota

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #7 on: February 29, 2012, 05:58:15 AM »
Quote
That sounds like a good place to send our troops for training.
Live fire and live targets. ;D

Sounds like a good reason to withdraw from Afghanistan and station them there to actually protect our border.

+1
Hi NSA! Can you see how many fingers I am holding up?

Offline powderman

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #8 on: February 29, 2012, 06:06:57 AM »
Isn't this part of the area obama warned Americans to stay out of ??POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline lakota

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2012, 06:28:19 AM »
It looks like a beautiful area. Too bad its been ceded to the mexican drug cartels.
Hi NSA! Can you see how many fingers I am holding up?

Offline powderman

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2012, 09:59:04 AM »
It looks like a beautiful area. Too bad its been ceded to the mexican drug cartels.

 
YEP. I read a while back that the feds have posted signs as far as 60 miles inside our border warning AMERICANS to not go beyong this point as it was not safe. POWDERMAN.  ::) ::)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2012, 04:26:05 AM »
Has anyone here actually bothered to go to the park's website and read it? There is nothing about any of the park being closed. The only warning about border activity is this:

Border Concerns

 

 
 
 Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument The desert wilderness is scenic, wonderful, and well-worth protecting.
 
When Visiting A Border Park
 Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument shares the border with Mexico for 30 miles. This is a remote region.
 
 Visitors should be aware that drug smuggling routes pass through the park. If you see any activity which looks illegal, suspicious, or out of place, please do not intervene. Note your location. Call 911 or report it to a ranger as quickly as possible.
 Each year hundreds of people travel north through the park entering the United States. It is possible you could encounter an individual or small group trying to walk through the park with little or no water. Please do not stop, but instead, note your location and immediately call 911 or contact a ranger as soon as possible. Lack of water is a life-threatening emergency in the desert.
 
 
Be Aware, Be Safe
 
 
  • Remember that cell phone service is usually out of range within Monument boundaries.
  • Know where you are at all times, follow good safety procedures and use common sense when making decisions.
  • Do not pickup hitch-hikers
  • Keep valuables, including spare change, out of sight and lock your vehicle
  • Avoid traveling in well-used but unofficial "trails"
  • People in distress may ask for food, water or other assistance. It is recommended that you do not make contact. Report the location of the distressed people to the Kris Eggle Visitor Center, other park staff, or the Border Patrol.
  • Report ANY suspicious behavior to park staff or Border Patrol. Please do not contact suspicious persons, contact a Ranger for assistance.
There are many more warnings concerning heat, wildlife, etc. than about border dangers. An old college friend of mine and her husband live in Tucson and are both professional herpetologists and hike this park all the time and have never said anything about safety concerns or seeing any possible illegals. Sounds like flame fanning to me.
GuzziJohn   

Offline powderman

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2012, 07:38:18 AM »
guzzi. I didn't write the article. Why don't you go there and give us all a first hand report of the conditions there, I figure a park that size you could do it in a week or so ?? I'm as sure as you are that you'll be fine. POWDERMAN.  ;) ;)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2012, 08:00:08 AM »
Quote
That sounds like a good place to send our troops for training.
Live fire and live targets. ;D

Sounds like a good reason to withdraw from Afghanistan and station them there to actually protect our border.

+1

 
sounds like a lovely place to re introduce grizzly bears and cougars in concentrated numbers.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2012, 08:28:24 AM »
Quote from Powderman:
"guzzi. I didn't write the article. Why don't you go there and give us all a first hand report of the conditions there, I figure a park that size you could do it in a week or so ?? I'm as sure as you are that you'll be fine. POWDERMAN.   "


Send me the money to go and I will be glad to report! I would do it in a heartbeat. It is a beautiful area of the country. If my female friend feels safe enough to hike there by herself which she has done a number of times in recent years and with her husband I guess I can do it too, but then she likes to play with snakes and lizards. I don't like living with my head under the covers waiting for the monsters to leave that live under my bed.
GuzziJohn

Offline crustylicious

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2012, 09:12:04 AM »
Puffy,
Shouldn't cost too much, those guzzis get over 50 mpg.
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Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2012, 09:47:35 AM »
Quote from crustylicious:
"Shouldn't cost too much, those guzzis get over 50 mpg."


Well I would like to ride my newer one but it is a gas hog and only get in the upper 30s mpg so he would have to cough up a bit more. It goes fast though. ;D
GuzziJohn

Offline mauser98us

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2012, 01:37:49 PM »
Iv'e noticed most college folks who lean to the left,seem to ignore the fact that there are bad folks who want to hurt them. I was born and raised Here in Arizona, and can tell you it was not like this 35 to 40 years ago.It is a real zoo down there.

Offline powderman

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2012, 05:11:54 PM »
Iv'e noticed most college folks who lean to the left,seem to ignore the fact that there are bad folks who want to hurt them. I was born and raised Here in Arizona, and can tell you it was not like this 35 to 40 years ago.It is a real zoo down there.

 
MAUSER. And obummer is suing AZ for enforcing the law. Go figger. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Duke0313

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2012, 05:15:57 PM »
Quote
That sounds like a good place to send our troops for training.
Live fire and live targets. ;D

Sounds like a good reason to withdraw from Afghanistan and station them there to actually protect our border.
I whole-heartedly agree!
I was born in Arizona but have lived in TEXAS for many years now. It is very sad to go back and see what the illegals are doing. Arizona is under siege from a foreign invader. Arizonans have every right to defend themselves with laws, common sense and guns if necessary!
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Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2012, 02:58:38 AM »
Part of what I am trying to get to here is debunking the bunker mentality expressed by some here (yes pun intended). In some eyes there is a radical muslim around every corner ready to kill you. There is a Mexican drug runner behind every bush in a national park ready to kill you so you hunker down instead of enjoying life. There is risk in everything. Many people have tried to convince me that my flying and riding are to dangerous to keep doing. People have told me I was endangering myself to much by going to biker bars while riding a Suzuki or a Guzzi. My friend that regularly hikes this park uses common sense and stays observant. But then maybe even loco Mexicans think they don't want to mess with a women that is holding a live rattlesnake. ;D
Bunker walls become very boring after awhile.
GuzziJohn


Offline oldandslow

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2012, 03:56:43 AM »
What I get from the article is that the park WAS considered the most dangerous back in '02 and '03 but things are better now with an increase in law enforcement rangers and border patrol agents.

I was there in '98. The only warnings I was given was that if I parked and walked to the spring my vehicle would likely be broken into and that the western scenic route was a very rough dirt road. I drove the scenic road and decided that no one there had any experience with some of the ordinary dirt roads in my part of NM or they would have thought the road was pretty good.  ;D I did find that if you are going to be out when it gets dark you better have a flashlight. Everything that grows there has stickers and lots of them. At the time I was there all that separated the US and Mexico was a falling down barbed wire fence and there was a highway right across the fence on the Mexican side. I saw no one except the park staff and other tourists. At night there was no activity at all, just dark and silent.

It's a beautiful place and you can see things there that occur nowhere else in the US. I would like to go back but probably never will considering the cost of travel today.



Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2012, 07:34:38 AM »
wild a muslim behind every tree , bunkers . When rangers carry M14's and set up sniper post to protect people in the park and when people elect not to waste their time or subject themselves to danger you call them bunker mentality . I think that is a very arrogrant statement. We see Americans killed on lakes , along the border on their own land , on federal and state land and from bullets shot across the border. Hope the ladies rattlesnake holds up to some drug dealers AK47 . What horse hockey. Hey until just recently American citizens couldn't even arm themselves in Nat. Parks and still not in some  ::) ::) ::) ::) >:(
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2012, 07:47:45 AM »
Quote from SHOOTALL:
"wild a muslim behind every tree , bunkers . When rangers carry M14's and set up sniper post to protect people in the park and when people elect not to waste their time or subject themselves to danger you call them bunker mentality . I think that is a very arrogrant statement. We see Americans killed on lakes , along the border on their own land , on federal and state land and from bullets shot across the border. Hope the ladies rattlesnake holds up to some drug dealers AK47 . What horse hockey. Hey until just recently American citizens couldn't even arm themselves in Nat. Parks and still not in some"


Well, enjoy your bunker. I might suggest that you paint your bunker's interior walls pink as that is a soothing color. We see Americans killed by autos everyday. Do you not drive or ride in a vehicle? How about eating? You might get food poisoning. Better not try crossing a street, you might get run over. Where I live LE carry guns and so do CC people so there must be some significant dangers in my neighborhood, better not leave my storm room in my basement.
GuzziJohn
GuzziJohn

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2012, 08:19:04 AM »
With all respect where I work and live can be as dangerous as that park at times. As you list there are many things that can kill us . My point is the USA is a big place and after working/living in a dangerous place its nice to relax in a more friendly place. I will let ya'll arm chair commando's sit back in your pink recliners and spout off about bunker mentality that might get gullable folks hurt or killed.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Hooker

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2012, 02:19:54 PM »
Who here lives in a bunker? ::)
If we lived close to that place my buddies and I would our weekends there cruising around looking for trouble.
My old man said "Most of the time it's best to not look for trouble but there are times when you need to find it before it finds you and kick the livin Hell out of it". If trouble is in your backyard I'd say it's time go find it.

Pat
" In the beginning of change, the patriot is a brave and scarce man,hated and scorned. when the cause succeeds however,the timid join him...for then it cost nothing to be a patriot. "
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"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
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Offline powderman

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Re: Americas Most dangerous park is in Arizona.
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2012, 02:26:14 PM »
HOOKER. Your Dad was a wise man. Good advice. POWDERMAN.  ;D ;D
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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