Author Topic: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran  (Read 1073 times)

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Offline guzzijohn

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Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« on: March 02, 2012, 08:54:00 AM »
Who do you think this:


Appearing alongside CIA Director David Petraeus before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence last week, James Clapper, the director of national intelligence, said of Iran: "We don't believe they've actually made the decision to go ahead with a nuclear weapon."

Before the hearing, as James Fallows of The Atlantic reports, Clapper released his "Worldwide Threat Assessment." It read, "We do not know ... if Iran will eventually decide to build nuclear weapons."

Clapper thus reaffirmed the assessment of 16 U.S. intelligence agencies in 2007, reportedly repeated in 2011, that the U.S. does not believe that Iran has decided to become a nuclear-weapons state.

In December, when Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said that if Iran went all out, it might be able to build a nuclear weapon in a year, Pentagon spokesman George Little hastily clarified his comments: "The secretary was clear that we have no indication that the Iranians have made a decision to develop a nuclear weapon."

On Jan. 8, Panetta himself told CBS: "[Is Iran] trying to develop a nuclear weapon? No. But we know that they're trying to develop a nuclear capability. And that's what concerns us. And our redline to Iran is: Do not develop a nuclear weapon."

On Super Bowl Sunday, President Barack Obama told NBC's Matt Lauer that he hopes to solve the Iranian problem "diplomatically."

From the above, we may conclude that the administration does not believe that Iran has crossed any redline on the nuclear issue - and President Obama does not want war with Iran.

Who, then, does want war? Ayatollah Ali Khamenei? Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad?

From their actions, it would appear not. If Iran wanted war with the United States, any terror attack inside this country or on U.S. forces in Iraq or Afghanistan could bring that about in an afternoon.

Expulsion of the International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors from the Natanz enrichment facility, covering up the IAEA cameras, breaking the seals on the low-enriched uranium stockpiled there, or removing the LEU would be a fire bell for the Pentagon.

But the IAEA inspectors and LEU are still there.

When the alleged plot by a used-car salesman in Texas to hire Mexican cartel criminals to blow up a D.C. restaurant and kill the Saudi ambassador was revealed, Iran denied it emphatically and demanded to interview the alleged mastermind.

Moreover, Tehran has yet to retaliate for the assassinations of five of its nuclear scientists and four terror attacks by Jundallah in Sistan-Baluchistan and PJAK, a Kurdish terrorist organization operating out of Iraqi Kurdistan. Iran has alleged Western and Israeli involvement in these attacks.

Now that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has denied any U.S. involvement, Mossad is the prime suspect behind the killing of the nuclear scientists. And U.S. writer Mark Perry, in Foreign Policy, alleges that Mossad agents posed as CIA and used U.S. dollars in London to recruit Jundallah.

If this is true, this would be a false-flag operation to provoke Iran into lashing out at America. Apparently, Iran did not take the bait.

Why have the Iranians not followed through on their threat to close the Strait of Hormuz and begun to dial it back?

War with the United States would be a disaster. Though the Tehran regime might survive - as Saddam Hussein's survived Desert Storm - Iran's navy, most of its armor, anti-aircraft and anti-ship defenses, and its strategic missile force would be destroyed, as would much of the country's infrastructure. Iran would be set back years.

Who, then, wants war with Iran?

All those who would like to see exactly that happen to Iran.

And who are they? The Netanyahu government and its echo chamber in U.S. politics and media, the neoconservatives, members of Congress, Newt Gingrich, and Rick Santorum.

And as the Obama administration is the major force in U.S. politics opposed to war with Iran, its defeat in November would increase, to near certitude, the probability of a U.S. war with Iran in 2013.

Yet if the Pentagon and U.S. intelligence community are correct - Iran does not have a bomb and has not decided to build a bomb - why should we go to war with Iran?

Answer: Iran represents "an existential threat" to Israel.

But Israel has 200 atomic bombs and three ways to deliver them, while Iran has never built, tested, or weaponized a nuclear device. Who is the existential threat to whom here?

And though a U.S. war on Iran would be calamitous for Iran, it would be no cakewalk for Americans, who could become terrorist targets for years in the Gulf, Afghanistan, Baghdad's Green Zone, Lebanon, and even here in the USA.

Year 2012 is thus shaping up as a war-or-peace election, with Republicans the war party and Democrats the peace-and-diplomacy party.

And as the months pass between now and November, this will become clear to the nation.

_
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Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2012, 09:22:45 AM »
not to worry.  they'll have a news conference if they decide to build a bomb. ::)
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Offline powderman

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2012, 11:36:19 AM »
not to worry.  they'll have a news conference if they decide to build a bomb. ::)

 
Absolutely, I trust em. The word of a muslim  is as good as gold. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
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Offline Gary G

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2012, 03:03:45 PM »
Should we attack Iran?  is synonymous with  "Should Americans lower their standard of living?"
The sole purpose of government is to protect your liberty. The Constitution is not to restrict the people, but to restrict government.  Ron Paul

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Offline magooch

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2012, 05:52:49 PM »
No, we should not go to war with Iran.  We should make it as clear as possible that we will not go to war, but if they don't quit monkeying around with nuclear research that is intended to develop a weapon, we cannot and will not stop Israel from shutting them down.  Further, if they persist to the point where we are unable to be convinced that they do not have designs on nuclear weapons, we will simply eliminate the threat.  And there won't be an 8 month warning and the elimination will not be by conventional means.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2012, 06:28:05 PM »
I don't even care who wrote it. NO we should NOT attack Iran. We also should not have attacked Iraq or Afghanistan. We did to get our troops home to guard our own borders we are under daily attack.


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Offline rio grande

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2012, 01:03:15 AM »
It would be unfortunate if Iran produced an atomic weapon, which they say they don't want, need, or intend to do.
But as far as that sparking a nuke arms race in the middle east, you are way too late - it was Israel who first introduced those weapons there, and it is Israel who never signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, and it is Israel who regularly threatens to use their nukes, based on land and on submarines (Samson Option).
How odd that we threaten ('all options on the table') to bomb Iran because of a possibility they will build a nuke, and ignore Israel who possesses many nuclear weapons in defiance of international law and brags about it.
How about economic sanctions and no-fly zones directed at Israel?

Or preferably, simply an end to foreign meddling altogether, peaceful trading with other nations and building and defending our own country.

Israel is not our friend. Friends don't spy on and steal from one another.
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“There is circumstantial evidence that some fissionable material available for Israel’s weapons development was illegally obtained from the United States about 1965,” Mr. Kissinger noted in his long memorandum.
“This is one program on which the Israelis have persistently deceived us,” Mr. Kissinger said, “and may even have stolen from us.”

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2012, 02:01:01 AM »
They author is Pat Buchanan.
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Offline gypsyman

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2012, 01:14:48 AM »
Lets say down the road a year or 2, Iran does come up with a bomb, and explode's one in Isreal,England,U.S. or somewhere. Who here, has the ba*** to strike back with a nuke? Or are we going to sit back with a thumb up our butt making excuses. gypsyman
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Offline magooch

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2012, 03:37:57 AM »
I'd be surprised if it takes a year, or two before Iran either does something, or has something done to it.
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Offline Gary G

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2012, 04:01:20 AM »
Lets say down the road a year or 2, Iran does come up with a bomb, and explode's one in Isreal,England,U.S. or somewhere. Who here, has the ba*** to strike back with a nuke? Or are we going to sit back with a thumb up our butt making excuses. gypsyman


The Ayatollah has said just the ownership of a nuke is evil and sinful, but lets just suppose they did develop one, what would they do with it? Remember the objective of those in power is to remain in power. That is true everywhere. The only positive is that the US would leave you alone, which is worth something. However, other than that, it would just sit there. The most evil regime in the world, N. Korea has had one for years and it remains just a wasted resource. No country, save one, has ever used their nuke. To do so would mean the immediate dismissal in the eyes of the world and the retaliation to follow would certainly be the end of that regime, the exact opposite of their desire to remain in power.
The sole purpose of government is to protect your liberty. The Constitution is not to restrict the people, but to restrict government.  Ron Paul

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Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2012, 04:47:40 AM »
Quote from Gary G:
"The Ayatollah has said just the ownership of a nuke is evil and sinful, but lets just suppose they did develop one, what would they do with it? Remember the objective of those in power is to remain in power. That is true everywhere. The only positive is that the US would leave you alone, which is worth something. However, other than that, it would just sit there. The most evil regime in the world, N. Korea has had one for years and it remains just a wasted resource. No country, save one, has ever used their nuke. To do so would mean the immediate dismissal in the eyes of the world and the retaliation to follow would certainly be the end of that regime, the exact opposite of their desire to remain in power."


Ah! One who makes sense.
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Offline mcbammer

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2012, 07:16:34 AM »
Im  tired  of  seeing  Flag   draped  caskets   unloading   at  the airport.   There is  a lot  of  blood on  these  presidents  hands. If  a  country   becomes  a threat   ,  drop  a  FAT  MAN &  LITTLE   BOY  and  save   a  young   americans  life .

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2012, 07:57:18 AM »
I think some cannot even imagine the world backlash on the USA if we used a nuke, especially proactively. It probably would totally collapse our economy, many embassies would be overran or closed, most of the world would put trade sanctions on us, etc., etc.
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Offline nw_hunter

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2012, 09:25:28 AM »
Im  tired  of  seeing  Flag   draped  caskets   unloading   at  the airport.   There is  a lot  of  blood on  these  presidents  hands. If  a  country   becomes  a threat   ,  drop  a  FAT  MAN &  LITTLE   BOY  and  save   a  young   americans  life .




I am too! I agree.....There is a lot of blood on these war mongers hands.
"How about" we keep our long, British type arrogant noses out of other's affairs and tend to our own problems? "Which are many"We're not about to drop a fat or little anything on the only countries that pose a real Nuke threat to us.Bullies don't operate that way. I'm all for saving American lives, and innocent lives in these countries we have bombed.These smart bombs aren't really that smart! They don't know the difference in a baby or a suicide bomber. The best way to save our young American boy's and girls, is to never send them into harms way for these elitists! They profit from it.......The rest of us suffer because of it, in the loss of our loved ones,our spirituality and the old pocket book!
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Offline rio grande

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2012, 08:51:43 PM »
Im  tired  of  seeing  Flag   draped  caskets   unloading   at  the airport.   There is  a lot  of  blood on  these  presidents  hands. If  a  country   becomes  a threat   ,  drop  a  FAT  MAN &  LITTLE   BOY  and  save   a  young   americans  life .

Suppose you had been born in Iran instead of the U.S......and had a wife and a couple of young children.  You never killed any American, never wanted a war with the U.S.   How would you feel about the FAT MAN and the LITTLE BOY then? 

Maybe we should issue swords and spears to all you war lovers, pick a nice spot out in the desert and let you have at each other.  Leave the women, children and peaceful folk out of it.
 

Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2012, 01:19:12 AM »
We have much, much bigger concerns of national security in dealing with the problem on our southern border.  We've killed Bin Ladin.  We've killed Sadam.  Time to pull back and take care of OUR own people in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California.  We have documented evidence members of the Mexican Military escorting drugs for the cartels to the border and several accounts of them crossing the border and having standoffs with members of the border partrol and local law enforcement. 
 
I'm all for pulling out troops out of the middle east and puting them to good use protecting our home. 
 
 
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2012, 02:16:35 AM »

I've read the OT. I hope that we do not launch a war against Iran.


There are a LOT of people who'd like to see that war; Guzzi's OT post lists some of the usual suspects. Let me add to that list, a lot of AMERICANS would like to see us go to war. Many of them are religious wingnuts, who like the idea of killing some Muslims. Others look for the glory days of a Successful War... they've been repeatedly disappointed since 1945, and would really like a war they can get behind, one where we WIN and feel good about it. Many of those, have some overlap with religious wingnuttery, and a conviction that God is on (Their) Side.


We would liked to have maintained a monopoly on nukes, but the Russians ended that hope. Now others possess it. And while it takes a lot of knowledge and industrial capability to develop nuke weapons, LOTS of countries have that, and some have good reasons to develop nukes, at least as good as ours.
If  a  country   becomes  a threat   ,  drop  a  FAT  MAN &  LITTLE   BOY  and  save   a  young   americans  life .
I'll go along with that as soon as those threatening countries are invading the US. Right now, we're doing all the invading, and if I understand your point... you'd like to kill a few thousand people you never met in the countries we've invaded, to save a young American life? Maybe that young American life shouldn't be hazarded, invading others' countries?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Swift One

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2012, 02:28:37 AM »
We have much, much bigger concerns of national security in dealing with the problem on our southern border.  We've killed Bin Ladin.  We've killed Sadam.  Time to pull back and take care of OUR own people in Texas, Arizona, New Mexico and California.  We have documented evidence members of the Mexican Military escorting drugs for the cartels to the border and several accounts of them crossing the border and having standoffs with members of the border partrol and local law enforcement. 
 
I'm all for pulling out troops out of the middle east and puting them to good use protecting our home.

+1 on that. And I tend to agree with the point made that if we dropped a nuke on a country first and not in retaliation to a nuke being dropped on us, we would be cut off from most of the world- in a heart beat.  The real protection for our soldiers at this point is bringing them home.  We have accomplished the defeat of Hussein and Bin Laden.  We have an urgent issue on our southern border right now that needs immediate attention....
It's all a hot mess...........

Offline mcbammer

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2012, 03:08:25 AM »

I've read the OT. I hope that we do not launch a war against Iran.


There are a LOT of people who'd like to see that war; Guzzi's OT post lists some of the usual suspects. Let me add to that list, a lot of AMERICANS would like to see us go to war. Many of them are religious wingnuts, who like the idea of killing some Muslims. Others look for the glory days of a Successful War... they've been repeatedly disappointed since 1945, and would really like a war they can get behind, one where we WIN and feel good about it. Many of those, have some overlap with religious wingnuttery, and a conviction that God is on (Their) Side.


We would liked to have maintained a monopoly on nukes, but the Russians ended that hope. Now others possess it. And while it takes a lot of knowledge and industrial capability to develop nuke weapons, LOTS of countries have that, and some have good reasons to develop nukes, at least as good as ours.
If  a  country   becomes  a threat   ,  drop  a  FAT  MAN &  LITTLE   BOY  and  save   a  young   americans  life .
I'll go along with that as soon as those threatening countries are invading the US. Right now, we're doing all the invading, and if I understand your point... you'd like to kill a few thousand people you never met in the countries we've invaded, to save a young American life? Maybe that young American life shouldn't be hazarded, invading others' countries?
 
Japan  never  invaded  the  U.S. ;  You  say   a few   thousand  people ;   better  said  a few  thousand    enemy  .  I agree  our   leaders  put  these  young  men   in  harms  way .  Maybe there  needs  a  law  passed   that   a Senator   or   Congressmen  kids  go  to  the   war  first .  Its  easy  to  send   others   children.

Offline Swampman

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2012, 03:10:33 AM »
As long as muslims are killing muslims let them be.  We'll have to see if China will loaned us the money to fight another war.
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Offline yellowtail3

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2012, 04:04:47 AM »
Japan  never  invaded  the  U.S.
Actually, they did; in June of '42, the Imperial Navy bombed Dutch Harbor and then landed troops on Attu & Kiska, and held the for about a year.
Quote
You  say   a few   thousand  people ;   better  said  a few  thousand    enemy 
Well, I suppose if you call the thousands you want to use nuclear weapons on enemy, it makes it a little easier... though I'm guessing calling for the deaths of thousands of Muslims or others isn't all that hard for ya.
Some people think Americans are special, and their lives are worth more than others'... I'll disagree. I wonder what Jesus' position might be on that question?
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline mcbammer

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2012, 07:38:38 AM »
Japan  never  invaded  the  U.S.
Actually, they did; in June of '42, the Imperial Navy bombed Dutch Harbor and then landed troops on Attu & Kiska, and held the for about a year.
Quote
You  say   a few   thousand  people ;   better  said  a few  thousand    enemy 
Well, I suppose if you call the thousands you want to use nuclear weapons on enemy, it makes it a little easier... though I'm guessing calling for the deaths of thousands of Muslims or others isn't all that hard for ya.
Some people think Americans are special, and their lives are worth more than others'... I'll disagree. I wonder what Jesus' position might be on that question?
 
There  are  many   examples  in  the   old   Testament  where  God  ordered   Israelites to   anialate   their  enemy  &  leave  no  living  thing  .  I  stand  corrected  on   Alaska  being  invaded ,  but  they  got  the  message  all be  it  a little  late  .  Veitnam   was  the  last  pollitical  war  we will  have, from  now  on  they  will  be  religious  conflicts. As  for  Muslims ,  their  hatred  of   christians   goes  back  to   old  testament   days .All  I know   is  their  hidden agenda  is  to  eradicate  their   enemies.  Its  going  to  get   interesting   the rest  of the year  .  I  say  watch   Israel .   

Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2012, 12:21:45 AM »
Quote
As  for  Muslims ,  their  hatred  of   christians   goes  back  to   old  testament   days .  All  I know   is  their  hidden agenda  is  to  eradicate  their   enemies.  Its  going  to  get   interesting   the rest  of the year  .  I  say  watch   Israel .   

Who cares if Muslims hate us?  They're not our greatest concern at the moment anyhow.  We're currently being invaded by Mexico and getting into skirmishes with members of their Military on our Southern Border yet your more concerned about Islamist secretly plotting?
 
 
I'm voting 3rd party in this election by writing in Jesus Christ for president.  Sadly even if this were an option most of you would still vote Republican because "It's a two party system."

Offline mcbammer

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2012, 03:08:33 AM »
Quote
As  for  Muslims ,  their  hatred  of   christians   goes  back  to   old  testament   days .  All  I know   is  their  hidden agenda  is  to  eradicate  their   enemies.  Its  going  to  get   interesting   the rest  of the year  .  I  say  watch   Israel .   

Who cares if Muslims hate us?  They're not our greatest concern at the moment anyhow.  We're currently being invaded by Mexico and getting into skirmishes with members of their Military on our Southern Border yet your more concerned about Islamist secretly plotting?
Start  a  subject   on   Mexico   an  we  will  discuss   Mexico.

Offline BUGEYE

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #25 on: March 08, 2012, 03:38:54 AM »
I'm in favor of teaming the CIA and Mossad and letting them do what they can in eliminating the problem.
to kill a snake, you cut off his head.
Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     Patrick Henry

Give me liberty, or give me death
                                     bugeye

Offline powderman

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2012, 05:07:41 AM »
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There  are  many   examples  in  the   old   Testament  where  God  ordered   Israelites to   anialate   their  enemy  &  leave  no  living  thing  .  I  stand  corrected  on   Alaska  being  invaded ,  but  they  got  the  message  all be  it  a little  late  .  Veitnam   was  the  last  pollitical  war  we will  have, from  now  on  they  will  be  religious  conflicts. As  for  Muslims ,  their  hatred  of   christians   goes  back  to   old  testament   days .All  I know   is  their  hidden agenda  is  to  eradicate  their   enemies.  Its  going  to  get   interesting   the rest  of the year  .  I  say  watch   Israel .   

 
MCBAMMER. Good post, I agree. The goal of islam was, is, always will be world domination, and the destruction of everything that Jesus Christ ever taught or built. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Singleshotsam

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Re: Anyones guess as to who wrote this? - should we attack Iran
« Reply #27 on: March 08, 2012, 05:08:03 AM »
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Start  a  subject   on   Mexico   an  we  will  discuss   Mexico.
      It would just morph into a thread about how evil Muslims are.
I'm voting 3rd party in this election by writing in Jesus Christ for president.  Sadly even if this were an option most of you would still vote Republican because "It's a two party system."