After a major crisis, how long to get to where?

[Couger]

Sometimes its too easy to be too literal and get fixated on the wrong things ......
 
Talking about firearms and equipment may be fun, but what will really happen if you found yourself having to "bug" where after a disaster?
 
There's probably a greater than a 90% chance that if a catastrphe hit me or my family I would be at work when it happened!  Or traveling to or from work.
 
Hopefully it would be possible to get back home and to the family immediately within 24 hours, but I might be 100+ miles away when that occurred!  At least 25-35 miles away is very possible.
 
But what if traveling home on foot took several days?  HOW WOULD YOU DO IT?
 
I live on an island north of Seattle, accessed by traveling over two other islands os the usual route (state road) meanders where it does.  we're more isolated than the communities close to and around Seattle, so that affords some protection, but I expect gangs and mobs would be problems after only a couple short days.
 
Something I'm gonna start carrying in my bug home kit is enough rations or MRE's for six days, and at least two 2-liter bottles of water.  That amount might allow one person to stay out that long, or share easily with one or two other people!  Also water is never scarce in this part of the country, even if it must be collected from sources that need filtering or boiling.
 
Of course having a few other essentials would be great like extra shoes/boots, coat, hat rain gear, gloves, an expedient shelter, gum, maybe an extra pair eye glasses, a few extra $cash$ for whatever .....
 
A weapon would be nice to have as well, but having it wouldn't rank the highest on my preps.
 
Once we were united, our next steps would begin.
 
Under certain scaenarios I could see getting home in one or two days, or maybe not for more than a week!
 
Comments?     
 
 

[pab1]

I have thought about this too. For me the fastest route to travel on foot from work to home would not be the same route I travel in my vehicle. The more direct route is through forest and open fields and would greatly reduce the distance I would have to travel. My personal vehicles have BOBs in them but I car pool most of the time and don't have a BOB in that vehicle.

[SHOOTALL]

Good post. Back in the day 60's when kids walked to school or took public buses there was talk about getting home if a nuke attack was comming. Where to hold up etc. Now days its about guns mostly . I travel alot and try to keep the truck from getting low on fuel. When I stop for the night I like to be full of fuel be it at home or on the road. I cross alot of rivers in the areas I live and work , that is a concern . Here a weapon is a considered need in good times and I would expect it would be in bad times also.

[GrassLakeRon]

I think if you watch the series "The Walking Dead" on AMC that would be close to what you would have to deal with.  No not zombies, but people bent on doing you harm and wanting what you have.  If you live on an island you need access to a boat.  If you prep a boat of large enough size you can run the coast to other places away from most people.  Large urban areas you will need to find a route that if you get stuck for the night on your way home, you can easy find what you need, if you don't already have it, and can be defended.  Store in your car/truck enough supplies to get you back home or to your main cache of stuff + 2 days.  Go light...... See heavy things most people won't carry and won't want in the car:

Light weight tarp (brown in color) 10x10.
Cordage, enough to hang tarp plus a little extra.
MRE style food.  No cook is better.  A fire may give your location away.
Fire Starting gear, only where cold is an issue and the fire can't be seen.
Where you live rain gear in a non flashy color.
Knife
first aide kit
Mylar blanket
water and water filtration gear.
Gun and ammo.  Close quarters in urban so no 1000 yard gun needed.  Shotgun and buckshot or if to large a handgun of 38 cal is enough.

All total should fit into a normal size backpack and weigh less then 10 pounds.

None of this will call attention in your car or truck.  You may depending on the season keep an extra hat, gloves, light or heavy jacket and a pair of boots in it as well.


Now the big question is: Is your home set back off the road and can it be easy protected?  If the answer is no...... bad news.  Where I live, my home is not well defended, so leaving it will be easy enough, besides all insurance companies have a clause covering them from armed invasions and other "act of god" issues.  So defending something that in this day and age is worth less, not covered when damaged, and can't be defended is a lost cause.  Also it your area won't support food growth or animal life for you to eat later, once again why stay.

If I lived in your area, I would get my passport, take a trip to the area north of Vancouver and scope an area with good game, wooded and a low population if any.  Plan your Bug out trip via water.  Roads will be jammed, but not water.  Plus you can boat far enough out so not to be seen by people in the city.

Also there is an added bonus if you where to buy a piece of property there as well so you can store a cache you can go to.

[Couger]

I have thought about this too. For me the fastest route to travel on foot from work to home would not be the same route I travel in my vehicle. The more direct route is through forest and open fields and would greatly reduce the distance I would have to travel. My personal vehicles have BOBs in them but I car pool most of the time and don't have a BOB in that vehicle. 

Good points Pab1.  My foot route(s) home could go through many ag fields or various widths, expanses, etc., but everything channels to two choke points for me until I made it onto my  home island.  Then I'd be in better cover and woods, etc.
 
GLRon, you include many good points too.  I agree cold camps could keep one from being spotted (provided one is warm and DRY and doesn't need heat from a fire.)  Also, I'd have a pocket stove with me that used denatured alchohol for fuel, that could heat hot beverages or water if needed.  Such a pocket stove might weigh only 2-3-4 ounces, and is really tiny (relatively speaking).  Its 12-13 miles to my driveway once I've crossed that second bridge onto my island.
 
When collecting equipment, shelter halves, book bags, even clothes my family concentrates on subdued and earth-tone colors ONLY.  No bright or flashy colors for us.
 
How many here have heard of the "grey man" idea of being unnoticed?  Or not noticed much?

[Couger]

..... if I lived in your area, I would get my passport, take a trip to the area north of Vancouver and scope an area with good game, wooded and a low population if any.  Plan your Bug out trip via water.  Roads will be jammed, but not water.  Plus you can boat far enough out so not to be seen by people in the city.

Re-read all of your post, interesting!  But while I love Vancouver Isle and Victoria is one of my favorite places, I can assure you the Canadians would not tolerate a bunch of Americans swarming their borders!
 
Vancouver Isle has huge populations of wildlife (for Canucks who already live there), but I doubt they'd welcome many Candians to inundate those places too.
 
Ironically Vancouver Island has one of the highest concentrations of cougars anywhere in the western states/provinces, but also one of the largest concentrations of black bears too -(for those dunderheads who are absolutely sure no bears would ever cause problems).  Where I live we have so many coyotes, that if someone values their dog or cat - those animals ARE NOT allowed to roam if they're expected to be around long!!
 
We also have the San Juan Islands above us, and the Americans there sometimes think they own that public land, too.

[GrassLakeRon]

You believe I would ask those wonderful folks in Canada if I needed to bug out.  Going by ocean means folks wouldn't see you.  The animals listed you can eat btw.  I would also go further up the coast then Vancouver island.  Besides if you buy a small place, they will let you in to use it.

[Couger]

Hey, you wanna fight or squabble with people you have yet to meet (certainly in my case), go for it!  By no means am I familiar with every foot of border or shoreline, but the Canadians are every bit as tough as any American protecting home turf, but why would you want to isolate yourself on an island?  Esp if it was a totally new experience?  Sure you can eat bbears and cougars, but why not deer instead?  Or if necessary why not a cow or sheep or pig if you came upon them instead?
 
I'd advocate doing something 100X easier than entrapping my family on an island, and thats leaving the I-5 corridor for eastern side of the Cascade range!  Lots of rural land that way if we weren't already set up there. 
 
Preferably I'd push for "freeland" east of the Snake/Columbia rivers getting off the lefty-coast (states) all together!  Some consider parts of Idaho, Montana and Wyoming to be the 'Switzerland' of America.  Those rugged places and their citizens have a lot going for them.   

[bilmac]

Several have talked about moving through woods on their way home. Good idea, I think I would go out of my way to go through uninhabited areas because I think they would be far safer. But no one has mentioned a handheld GPS. Have it preloaded with home location, and any choke points like bridges that you must cross.

You may think that you have your route memorized, but what if you have to change plans. What if someone offered you a ride that would save you miles, but took you far off your preplanned route?

[GrassLakeRon]

Hey, you wanna fight or squabble with people you have yet to meet (certainly in my case), go for it!  By no means am I familiar with every foot of border or shoreline, but the Canadians are every bit as tough as any American protecting home turf, but why would you want to isolate yourself on an island?  Esp if it was a totally new experience?  Sure you can eat bbears and cougars, but why not deer instead?  Or if necessary why not a cow or sheep or pig if you came upon them instead?
 
I'd advocate doing something 100X easier than entrapping my family on an island, and thats leaving the I-5 corridor for eastern side of the Cascade range!  Lots of rural land that way if we weren't already set up there. 
 
Preferably I'd push for "freeland" east of the Snake/Columbia rivers getting off the lefty-coast (states) all together!  Some consider parts of Idaho, Montana and Wyoming to be the 'Switzerland' of America.  Those rugged places and their citizens have a lot going for them.   

Before we get this in the wrong mood/direction lets look at the assumption for one moment:

My "friends to the north" i.e. Canadians, seem to take crisis in a different light, to their credit.  Several years ago I was fishing in extreme northern Ontario.  There was a rolling blackout going on in one of the smaller communities near Long Lake.  I stopped to get gas when I was told there was no power.  I asked several of the locals about this and most laughed and said well Ottawa needs air conditioning!  I have also been in Canada when gas was in short supply in one small northern Ontario town and the same attitude was shown.  Seems our neighbor to the north can hand things a bit better then where I live.  I will explain.

Two years ago the news reported a rumor that sent everyone in town to the gas stations, fights occurred, gas rationing and prices of 10 dollars a gallon.  All that on a rumor.  When the power is out for even a couple of days folks around me get down right hostile and I have heard more the one person threaten the life of a line worker trying to get power back online.

I never said that Canadians where not tough or that they wouldn't have an issue, if you remember I said get your passport and buy some land.  Also if you were stopped heading via ocean you would have the right to pass based upon the correct paperwork and being a land owner, so why would you ask them, you are in the green.

I also said go further north of the island.  Now if you want to head into an area of in the northwest woods, that wood be great.  The only issue is getting past most over populated areas.  Water is not over populated.  Think about an area like Bella Coola via water.

[james]

Being in the New Madrid seismic zone my major concern is an earthquake.  My wife and daughter will have about a six mile hike from town if the roads become impassable. I cautioned them of down power lines and not to even touch a fence if electric lines are in contact with it.  I'm usually home so my job will be to maintain the homestead until they get home.  I have ample food and water stored along with water filters, propane and other items necessary to live independently for a month. I also have an atv and horse for off road transportation if it becomes necessary. Some people were out of electricity in this area for 3-5 weeks due to an ice storm so it was good practice for a more serious disaster.

[Couger]

Before we get this in the wrong mood/direction lets look at the assumption for one moment:

My "friends to the north" i.e. Canadians, seem to take crisis in a different light, to their credit.  Several years ago I was fishing in extreme northern Ontario.  There was a rolling blackout going on in one of the smaller communities near Long Lake.  I stopped to get gas when I was told there was no power.  I asked several of the locals about this and most laughed and said well Ottawa needs air conditioning!  I have also been in Canada when gas was in short supply in one small northern Ontario town and the same attitude was shown.  Seems our neighbor to the north can hand things a bit better then where I live.  I will explain.

Two years ago the news reported a rumor that sent everyone in town to the gas stations, fights occurred, gas rationing and prices of 10 dollars a gallon.  All that on a rumor.  When the power is out for even a couple of days folks around me get down right hostile and I have heard more the one person threaten the life of a line worker trying to get power back online.

I never said that Canadians where not tough or that they wouldn't have an issue, if you remember I said get your passport and buy some land.  Also if you were stopped heading via ocean you would have the right to pass based upon the correct paperwork and being a land owner, so why would you ask them, you are in the green.

I also said go further north of the island.  Now if you want to head into an area of in the northwest woods, that wood be great.  The only issue is getting past most over populated areas.  Water is not over populated.  Think about an area like Bella Coola via water.

Good enuff GLRon!  Good post.  Actually i think you're advocating doing what you're familar with, just like I advocating what I'm familiar with.     Plus I agree getting away from the Interstate-5 corridor would be a huge priority, and east of steven's or snoqualme passses in my case.  One really nice thing when moving north away from Seattle is how the population get less and less the closer to the border.

[Couger]

Several have talked about moving through woods on their way home. Good idea, I think I would go out of my way to go through uninhabited areas because I think they would be far safer. But no one has mentioned a handheld GPS. Have it preloaded with home location, and any choke points like bridges that you must cross.

You may think that you have your route memorized, but what if you have to change plans. What if someone offered you a ride that would save you miles, but took you far off your preplanned route?

Good post!  I'm totally ignorant about using GPS, since i've never used one.  But what about backup is the system crashed?  Or went down?  If it indeed went down that might mean something REALLY SERIOUS happened to U.S. satiilites and affected commend authority over the whole country! but what if the feds ever jammed its use for citizens?
 
I've always relied on a compass and USGS maps,  if not my own familiarity of my locale, but for those who can use a GPS, I think such a device could be extremely useful navigating, rendezvouing with family, locating a cache, etc.
 
Plus I too have considered 'What if I could bum a ride some how ..... ?'  But the thought also occurred what if that driver took me somewhere I didn't want to go?  and wouldn't stop?  What if we ran into a roadblock when it was too late to avoid it?, etc., etc. (just thoughts).

[bilmac]

They make some really cheap and really simple units now. I would get a backtracker 5 for around a hundred bucks and learn to use it and preprogram it.  If it works when you need it great. If it doesn't you haven't invested much.

[briarpatch]

The biggest problem we would have in getting home or anywhere will be the police. They seemed to be trained to go crazy when disasters strike. They will block access to your homes, travel, food ect. If you can avoid them you may make it.

[mcwoodduck]

Clearly water is your obsticle.
My guess is your disaster would be the ground shaking, the waters flooding, or a fire that is out of control.
Where ever your work is I would look to find a marina near by.
Take sailing lessons and figure out what boat you would Borrow (steal) to get home.
In a bug home bag I would keep comfortable broken in boots and wool socks.
Water and some food. 
Fire starter or one of the small folding stoves that use the solid fuel tabs.
A set of bolt cutters (getting a boat may require cutting a lock)
A hand held GPS in a water proof bag with spare batteries.
I would keep a fire arm, but that is me.  Someone may see you on the road with a back pack, water and other supplies and you may be willing to share but they may not be willing to share your supplies and you may need a weapon to protect your self.  After all your goal is to get home and there may be some unsavory things you will have to do to get there.
A pocket knife and or a multi tool (leather man type thing)
Rain gear (jacket, pants, and hat), and a wool blanket In one of the 2.5 gallon zip lock bags.
You may want ot eliminate 1 liter of water for a pocket filter and maybe some water tabs.
Small first aid kit.
 
 
 

[Duke0313]

Good points, all! I can see I have more planning to do! Thanks!

[SHOOTALL]

Things to consider , on 9/11 cell phones in NYC didn't work for a period I have been told. The GPS system can be shut down or better/worst confused so it can't be used fot targeting . When making your way home true its best to avoid high poulation areas but the more off the grid you are the more danger you may be in if people feel you are an intruder. Night travel may be best in some areas. Food and water are must. Stealing can get you killed or maybe charged if the crisis was not as bad as you thought and lasted only a short time. Money will be good at first.

[bilmac]

Where I live I wouldn't feel the need to have a gun. If I wasn't so lucky, I would have one that was concealable.

[SHOOTALL]

Here on the East coast I would feel naked with out one .............It might be hard to hide , with the bbl so hot 

[Blackhawker]

I haven't read most of the posts here but in reference to the original post; If there is a major catastrophe, you can probably count needing to be in a safe place within 24 hours before the hell breaks loose.  If wanting to get home to your family, it's hard to face the probability, but there is probably (within the first 24 hours) a50-50 chance of ever seeing your family again, especially if you live 50 or more miles from home.  If you can still get down a road, you have a good chance but I wouldn't count on vehicles as being a good source of getting around since there are sure to be road blocks either by officials or thugs. 

After 24 hours, if you don't have a fortified place to stay and a weapon, you probably have a very narrow chance of survival.  After another day goes by, then you'd better have some food and water or you'll probably parish as well.

All in all, it's hard to face the facts but if one lives in a high populated area, the chances of surviving a major catastrophic incident are very, very slim.  Think of the LA riots.  This was mainly just a small group of thugs running around.  Now, imagine the entire population running around and not knowing what to do and there is no electricity, no phones, no police or overseeing factor around.  It will literally be every man for himself. 
Makes me kinda laugh when considering so many people sit around and talk about their religion etc...no matter what religion it is, how will we all act?  When it comes down to it, we're all just animals....no better than rats, deer, wolves, or any other.  We just think we're better than them.

[myronman3]

We just think we're better than them.

i disagree with that.  some people, yes; some people, no.  i have seen many people give to others when it makes no sense for them to do so.   even to the point of laying down their lives for others. 

[SHOOTALL]

I haven't read most of the posts here but in reference to the original post; If there is a major catastrophe, you can probably count needing to be in a safe place within 24 hours before the hell breaks loose.  If wanting to get home to your family, it's hard to face the probability, but there is probably (within the first 24 hours) a50-50 chance of ever seeing your family again, especially if you live 50 or more miles from home.  If you can still get down a road, you have a good chance but I wouldn't count on vehicles as being a good source of getting around since there are sure to be road blocks either by officials or thugs. 

After 24 hours, if you don't have a fortified place to stay and a weapon, you probably have a very narrow chance of survival.  After another day goes by, then you'd better have some food and water or you'll probably parish as well.

All in all, it's hard to face the facts but if one lives in a high populated area, the chances of surviving a major catastrophic incident are very, very slim.  Think of the LA riots.  This was mainly just a small group of thugs running around.  Now, imagine the entire population running around and not knowing what to do and there is no electricity, no phones, no police or overseeing factor around.  It will literally be every man for himself.  Sorta like N.O. ?
Makes me kinda laugh when considering so many people sit around and talk about their religion etc...no matter what religion it is, how will we all act?  When it comes down to it, we're all just animals....no better than rats, deer, wolves, or any other.  We just think we're better than them.

[SHOOTALL]

We just think we're better than them.

i disagree with that.  some people, yes; some people, no.  i have seen many people give to others when it makes no sense for them to do so.   even to the point of laying down their lives for others.

 
I agree ! and would add it would depend on where you were and what kinds of people you find yourself with. It could be a group may be going the same way and see security in numbers . Others might help because of the GOLDEN RULE .

[Blackhawker]

I completely agree with what you are saying for people in war situations where you are protecting your buddy's back.  There are countless situations where soldiers have helped comrades and civilians and even died doing so.  However, in an every man for himself situation, such as what started in the LA riots or after hurricane Katrina but worse than these, where there is no hope of and outside force coming to assist.....a completely different situation than in war......the only person that would lay down his life for someone else would be Jesus himself.

We just think we're better than them.

i disagree with that.  some people, yes; some people, no.  i have seen many people give to others when it makes no sense for them to do so.   even to the point of laying down their lives for others.

[myronman3]

 surely there are those that will behave that way; of that i have no doubt.   but i see people help others at times you wouldnt expect it.  will i bank on this?  no....you cant and only a fool would (which is why our country is so messed up right now to begin with).   that being said, never say never.

[mcwoodduck]

I completely agree with what you are saying for people in war situations where you are protecting your buddy's back.  There are countless situations where soldiers have helped comrades and civilians and even died doing so.  However, in an every man for himself situation, such as what started in the LA riots or after hurricane Katrina but worse than these, where there is no hope of and outside force coming to assist.....a completely different situation than in war......the only person that would lay down his life for someone else would be Jesus himself.

We just think we're better than them.

i disagree with that.  some people, yes; some people, no.  i have seen many people give to others when it makes no sense for them to do so.   even to the point of laying down their lives for others.

I too disagree with your idea that we would revert to savages.
While I said steal a boat and others have commented that you may have to pay for that crime, I would also have every intention is a short disaster of returning that property and I am sure if you expalined your self most peple would understand and not press charges.  On that same note if the disaster is large most will not think to look for their dingy or small sail boat until the emergency is well over.  If he feels strongly about it he can always stock a canoe or kayack at or near work.
I think there are going the be three kinds of people in any disaster.
1) the prepared or semi prepared - those that have a plan and some supplies.
2) the walking zombies - those that are neither prepared or have a plan and are the ones yelling why FEMA, or the Government has not done something .
3) the preditors-  The ones That are not prepared or have a plan but are going to steal any supplies they see, your supplies or preperations included. 
 
Look at What happened in New Orleans after Katrina.
Riots, Fights with police, fights with each other, some setteling in and waiting for others to save them and moaning the whole time that the Federal Govenment needed to take care of them.
 
 

[GrassLakeRon]

Take a good long look at the movie "The road". 

The question is leaving town for good, for 2-4 weeks or for the weekend?  If you are for good, plan on leaving in a minute, with all that is important for survival.  2-4 weeks, food and protection.  For the weekend, a change of underwear.  Long term is a whole different ball game and requires a higher cost and land/property beyond what most people can afford.  For some, a weekend camping trip or a once in lifetime hunt doesn't mean you can live in the wild.  After a month on the road or in the bush will do most townies in. 

If most folks would be civil it would be a different story, but from the folks around me are any indication, then the movie "the road" fits.  Practice your route.  Practice your skills.  Practice your ability to stay away from all life's things that will draw you back to trouble.  Then you will be ready. 

[teamnelson]

Decades of trauma research indicates that every population, regardless of race, creed, color, sexual preference or geography, breaks down accordingly: 98% will flee from the chaos, and 2% will move towards it. Of the 2%, 1/2 are predators, the other 1/2 are the heroes ... the sheepdogs, as we like to say in my line of work.

I've been through 2 Tsunami scares on Oahu, and 98% of the people headed for the hills ... every major traffic conduit was jammed. 1% were down on the beach with their boards, waiting. For both of them I worked 17 miles away from home, which was on the coast, but protected by a series of locks, so considered Tsunami safe. To get home I had to move against the flow of traffic ... if you think the lane markers mean anything when the herds are panicked, you're fooling yourself. Unless you're a marked public vehicle, policy is to open all the roads away from the event in an evacuation. Might keep that in mind when you plan. Simply getting out of the parking lot onto a major artery would've been improbable within minutes of the alert. Foot was the option. Once home, we were set to ride out most anything imaginable in Oahu for a long time.

My plan was 3-4 days ... 17 miles isn't far, probably take 1/2 a day on a nice day. But not if we'd had more than 3' of water lap up on the beach ... then it'd be real hard to cross populated areas without incident. My bag is packed even now for 3 days, including fire, water, shelter, food and medicine. And I live 1/2 mile from my ship.

[gatorshooter]

I am in outside sales so I could be a good 4-5 days walk from my house in good weather and good road conditions. My counterpart and I discussed this in detail. that is why i have my BOB. The big thing is to stay away from the major population that is freaking out  We have a lot of rivers and "borrowing" a canoe in a big catastrophe could be a option. but could get you killed...
So I was thinking walking the railroad tracks may be a better option to get away from the sheeple. crossing fields,creeks, and woods can get you tired and wet muddy feet very quickly. also poison ivy/oak, snakes, insects etc.. can ruin your day and in a crisis get you killed. remember that in the "man vs wild" episode he liked to bit the dust from just a bee sting. He had a allergic reaction....
my wife had to go in the ICU after a black widow bite on her back, within 12 hours her breathing became labored and lost control of her lower extremities. if not for prompt med attention she would not have made it through the night. just sayin in a crisis you cannot afford to get hurt... or expend too much energy without making progress. food will be at a premium. and with no way to preserve food you can go hungry/thirsty quickly. can't count on game always being present. and killing and eating someone Else's animals will tend to get you killed as well. so moving through agricultural lands and back roads are best bet.
 
We discussed the possibility of a EMP attack and our cars no longer functioning nor any of the whiz bang elect devices (gps). most power plants are computer controlled so they all go into emerg. shut down.  think about all the cars on the interstate suddenly come to a rolling stop. The key is to figure out quickly what just happened and get your stuff and start moving away from the crowd before people start to freak.  My option is to find the nearest railroad track and head that way and get off the major roads.