Author Topic: I've Got a Cannon! (Project Thread) (Read 5137 times)

jamesbeat · « **on:** March 06, 2012, 04:37:33 AM »

I haven't posted for a while, because I haven't really had anything to post about.
That all changed recently when I took delivery of my first cannon, built for me by a friend.

What I have so far is a bare steel barrel, for which I'm going to make a carriage and various associated accessories etc.
This is going to be a slow project, as I don't have much free time to work on it at the moment. The plan is to make slow but steady progress, and hopefully have it finished and ready to fire on July 4th

This thread will be a placeholder, and I'll post updates as the project progresses.

First, some statistics:

Bore: 1"
Material: 1018 steel
Length: 14.5" (including cascabel)
Width at breech: 3"
Width at muzzle: 2.25"
Width across trunnions: 4.5"
Weight: Bloody Heavy (I don't have a scale...)

All dimensions conform to safety guidelines, ie. breech is three calibers, trunnions are one caliber etc.

Apart from the trunnions and the cascabel (which is a curtain rod finial!), the cannon is machined from one solid piece of steel, no liners, seams or welds in the barrel to keep me awake at night.

And now some photos

I don't have a can of powder, so I've included my keyboard in some of the photos to give an idea of scale.

(Sharp eyed members will notice that I am using a keyboard with my laptop. Those who have used a mechanical keyboard will understand why)

This cannon is an exact replica of a one-of-a-kind gun aboard a ship that was tragically lost at sea. The exact details are lost to time, and we can only guess what the carriage must have looked like

What this means is that I can build the carriage any way I please.
This is good, because it will be the first carriage I've ever built, so I can pass off any mistakes as 'design features' without fear of ridicule

In the next post, I'll be posting links to videos of the construction process...

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #1 on:** March 06, 2012, 04:46:09 AM »

That's a fine looking tube. What kind of finish will it have: blue, parkerized, painted, etc?
Congrats!!!

Double D · « **Reply #2 on:** March 06, 2012, 04:56:08 AM »

I see a barrel with the lines of a Napoleon and the knob of a curtain rod! Great improvisation. Thanks for helping getting us back to cannon making and not just history class.

little seacoast · « **Reply #3 on:** March 06, 2012, 05:03:28 AM »

Nice gun tube, DD's just jealous about the ample neck on your cascabel.

jamesbeat · « **Reply #4 on:** March 06, 2012, 05:16:28 AM »

I'm undecided about the finish.
By rights it should be painted, but I have an aversion to painting machined steel.
I guess my aversion stems from my interest in other firearms, you never see a fine firearm with a painted finish.

I was initially thinking of browning or rust bluing it, but I'm trying to persuade myself to stop thinking in terms of personal firearms and start thinking in terms of what a cannon should look like.

In short, I think I'm going to paint it, but I haven't been able to bring myself to actually do it yet!

I think I'll start another thread soon specifically about finishing it, and gather some opinions from more experienced cannon builders.

BoomLover · « **Reply #5 on:** March 06, 2012, 06:46:55 AM »

I believe there is a link in the stickies that you might like...add patina to your barrel. It has all the chemicals, formulas, etc, and might be an option to explore rather than paint! BoomLover

Double D · « **Reply #6 on:** March 06, 2012, 06:51:43 AM »

Quote from: little seacoast on March 06, 2012, 05:03:28 AM

Nice gun tube, DD's just jealous about the ample neck on your cascabel.

DoubleD is not jealous, DoubleD likes what he see's.

Double D · « **Reply #7 on:** March 06, 2012, 06:55:42 AM »

Quote from: jamesbeat on March 06, 2012, 05:16:28 AM

I guess my aversion stems from my interest in other firearms, you never see a fine firearm with a painted finish.

...and you never see a original cannon that is blued...even in modern times

Just include you finish discussion right here in this htread, that is part of your build.

copdoc · « **Reply #8 on:** March 06, 2012, 12:22:30 PM »

Beautiful work. Have you considered copper plating it? I have never done it but am considering trying for a full size 24 pounder US Coehorn mortar in steel. I am not sure what it would cost to have it done or how hard it is to do it yourself but may be worth looking into. Copper would look similar to bronze. It has been more than 30 years since I read Elmer Keith's book but he talked about how copper plating was not too bad of a finish for a working gun. I think he had a Colt SSA.

GGaskill · « **Reply #9 on:** March 06, 2012, 12:46:43 PM »

Copper plating would look kinda red, I think. You can get all kinds of things bronze plated; no reason you couldn't do a mortar barrel unless it was too big.

Zulu · « **Reply #10 on:** March 06, 2012, 01:04:01 PM »

Quote from: GGaskill on March 06, 2012, 12:46:43 PM

Copper plating would look kinda red, I think. You can get all kinds of things bronze plated; no reason you couldn't do a mortar barrel unless it was too big.

Bronze plating? Could a thundermug be done?

Zulu

copdoc · « **Reply #11 on:** March 06, 2012, 01:07:28 PM »

Quote from: GGaskill on March 06, 2012, 12:46:43 PM

Copper plating would look kinda red, I think. You can get all kinds of things bronze plated; no reason you couldn't do a mortar barrel unless it was too big.

I am kind of a red neck, oh you mean the color of the cannon

I knew the was a brass "wash" for steel but did not know that you could bronze plate. That is interesting, thanks

GGaskill · « **Reply #12 on:** March 06, 2012, 02:05:17 PM »

Since that gun has somewhat modern lines, you might consider using a Marsilly carriage,

Wikimedia Commons

which was a later style of broadside gun carriage although you would have to use a quoin for elevation. And it is different from the usual type.

One advantage of paint, especially the more traditional types, is that it can be easily removed if you don't like the result. And it prevents rust.

Artilleryman · « **Reply #13 on:** March 06, 2012, 02:14:40 PM »

I saw a reproduction Rev War iron 6pdr that was bronze plated. I had been around it several times and thought it was solid bronze until I was told different.

copdoc · « **Reply #14 on:** March 06, 2012, 04:32:05 PM »

Quote from: Artilleryman on March 06, 2012, 02:14:40 PM

I saw a reproduction Rev War iron 6pdr that was bronze plated. I had been around it several times and thought it was solid bronze until I was told different.

Bronze sounds idea for this one and mine.

rusty barrels · « **Reply #15 on:** March 07, 2012, 02:26:37 PM »

How about a clearcoat? keeps it looking shiny and you can see if your developing a problem(like cracking) or am I being overly cautious?

GGaskill · « **Reply #16 on:** March 07, 2012, 09:27:50 PM »

Cracking would start on the inside and if it got to the outside, it would make itself visible when the shot was fired. That should not happen on this barrel with reasonable charges and shot loads.

jamesbeat · « **Reply #17 on:** March 08, 2012, 08:57:34 AM »

Don't worry, the chances of this barrel cracking are vanishingly small (I will only be using sensible charges).
The barrel is constructed from a known steel type (1018), and meets the safety guidelines (solid barrel, 1" of steel all around the breech).
It may be a simple design, but it's very well made, with the emphasis being on safe construction. As you can see from the following videos, the gentleman that made the barrel knows his way around a lathe:

Start facing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2vRM1qbDM4

Center drilling:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6H9A3JazBY

Center drill to live center:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbDacUZ-5Cw

Concentric cylinder:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez57ZqlXBr0

Pilot drilling bore:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4lqksJ4hjg

Drilling Bore:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u12M-AYTBbA

jamesbeat · « **Reply #18 on:** March 08, 2012, 09:06:41 AM »

Filing breech:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWEdSvsOYjc&feature=youtu.be

Tapering gun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3d34D6yTV0Q&feature=youtu.be

Trunnion pocket:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk30SAIliR4&feature=youtu.be

Zulu · « **Reply #19 on:** March 08, 2012, 09:23:49 AM »

First of all, I want to make it clear that I know nothing about metal lathes.

In the last video, "Drilling bore", the drill bit is moving around a lot. Is this normal? Wouldn't that affect the hole diameter?
Zulu

jamesbeat · « **Reply #20 on:** March 08, 2012, 09:38:06 AM »

I doubt if it would matter, as I believe that's just a pilot hole, but my guess is that it is deliberate runout (is that the correct term?) perhaps to avoid snapping the bit?
I also know next to nothing about lathes...

GGaskill · « **Reply #21 on:** March 08, 2012, 12:51:27 PM »

From looking at the video, it may be that the end of the bar was not faced off square before the drilling commenced. But because the drill is somewhat flexible, it will follow the initial hole once the whole diameter is in the hole. The hole will not be quite on center when done but if the bar is held with a center in the hole, the bore will be concentric with the outside (more like the outside will be concentric with the bore.) This is not the desired way for it to happen but it will work out OK in the end.

jamesbeat · « **Reply #22 on:** March 08, 2012, 02:48:50 PM »

That makes sense.
In the end that wouldn't make any difference, because the reference point for the outside profile is the center obtained from that hole.
I imagine that the raw steel isn't a perfect cylinder in the first place, so it wouldn't matter either way.
My caliper tells me that the bore is concentric with the muzzle to within a few thou, so it turned out pretty darn accurate.

Double D · « **Reply #23 on:** March 08, 2012, 06:06:05 PM »

As George says the end if not faced of square, you can see the face run out in the video. The bore will be tapered- a larger diameter at the muzzle or the hole will not run straight or a combination of both.

GGaskill · « **Reply #24 on:** March 09, 2012, 05:23:21 PM »

Looks like the "videographer" on the cutting the trunnnion pockets there fixated on the pocket instead of the spindle. At least the chips show that something is really being done.

jamesbeat · « **Reply #25 on:** April 05, 2012, 08:31:18 AM »

Ok, here's a quick update

I have made one cap square, or trunnion strap or whatever they're called.
This may not seem like a lot of progress, but these things are deceptively hard to make!

I ended up using the handle from a sink plunger as a form to bend the steel (by hand) and then heating with a blowtorch and tweaking with pliers to fine tune the shape.
I cheated a little when bending the flat parts out. I used a triangle file to 'score' the surface of the steel so that it would bend sharply where I wanted it to. I didn't have to remove much material (probably not even a quarter of the thickness) so I don't think I compromised strength significantly.
After the steel was scored, I simply heated it red hot and bent it with pliers.
After a bit of reheating and fine tuning, I got this:

(interestingly, that stuff on the cannon that looks like rust isn't really visible to the naked eye, yet the camera picks it up. Must be light surface rusting, which means I should get on with painting the tube!)

Turned out pretty good!

Now I just have to make the other one...

For the carriage itself, I'm still deciding, but I'm leaning heavily towards a design similar to the one that is the subject of this fascinating thread by DD:

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php?topic=171513.0

DD, I know you posted this thread a long time ago, but it is still awesome. The photos really helped me to visualize how this type of carriage goes together, and will be invaluable to me as I build my own, so thanks

onegreatshot · « **Reply #26 on:** April 05, 2012, 10:38:59 AM »

How would powder coating work on a barrel?

they have some mixture that is used on exhaust manifolds that don't change color with the heat. Just a thought.

carmy53 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 05, 2012, 01:50:45 PM »

Quote from: onegreatshot on April 05, 2012, 10:38:59 AM

How would powder coating work on a barrel? they have some mixture that is used on exhaust manifolds that don't change color with the heat. Just a thought.

I had a 6" .45 caliber cannon powder coated and it looked great. Firing it didn't seem to hurt the powder coating.

GGaskill · « **Reply #28 on:** April 05, 2012, 02:21:54 PM »

I don't know what the thickness of the coating is but you need to be careful that the bore diameter isn't reduced significantly.

jamesbeat · « **Reply #29 on:** April 05, 2012, 04:09:13 PM »

I've seen powder coating being applied.
The powder was applied with a spray gun just like paint (I believe it clings to the object electrostatically) and then the parts passed through an oven which melts the coating.
There's no reason why any powder coat would need to get inside the bore.

I don't think, however, that I would like a powder coated cannon.
The problem is that powder coating would be virtually impossible to touch up, the whole thing would need to be redone.
I'm sure it's very resillient, but eventually the gunpowder would win (probably around the touch hole) and then the problems would start.
Once the integrity of the powder coating is compromised, rust forms under the surface just like it does with paint, causing it to bubble and flake.

With a painted barrel, I could just sand down to sound metal and touch it up, whereas powder coating would need to be entirely redone.

Talking of finishing, what would be most appropriate for the trunnion straps and other metal furniture on the carriage?
I can do 'fire blued' (like in the above photo), browned, rust blue, french grey, or painted.

Which would be most appropriate?