T/C hawken or renegade

[Illhunter]

not sure if this is the place to post this but. What is the differences between these rifles. Can you get different barrels to drop in on both of these rifles. Is one of these better than the other more accurate or anything.
 

[bubba.50]

hawken has brass nosecap, wedgeplates, triggerguard, patchbox and curved brass buttplate.
renegade has blued steel triggerguard, wedgeplates and flat shotgun type buttplate. no nosecap or patchbox.
hawkens have 28 inch barrels renegades 26 inch. 45 & 50cal hawkens have 15/16ths barrels. 54cal hawken and all renegades have one inch barrels. no difference in accuracy except what you'll always find-some individual guns shoot better than others.
green mountain drop-in barrels available for both. used barrels on places such as e-bay.
for what it's worth and have a good'en friend, bubba.

[Illhunter]

found a deal on a hawken rifle and then found a renegade with bag and powder horn was thinking about which would be better gun the brass stuff don't mean alot to me but is nice just the same i guess. would the 1" barrels make alot of difference. 

[Ladobe]

Which would be better for you depends on a lot of factors, not necessarily just which model... IE: right caliber to fit your purpose; furniture (brass/no brass) to fit your purpose/taste; stock fit, what feels better shouldered by you, balances best for you (not all folks like the curved butt or drop of the Hawken stock); condition; price; etc.
 
Barrel size is a product of caliber... bigger holes need bigger support.   Easiest drop-in barrels are the same size as the stock is cut for.

From memory, so hope I don't leave any out...
 
TC Hawken factory barrels have been offered in 40, 45, 50 & 54 cal; 1:48 and 1:66 twists; standard, cut and button rifling; w/wo QLA; for percussion and flint.
 
TC Renegade factory bare ls have been offered in 50, 54, 56 and 58 cal; 1:38, 1:48 and 1:66 twists and smooth bore; standard, cut and button rifling; w/wo QLA; for percussion and flint.
 
Note that with both models which configuration(s) were offered was caliber specific.
 
With aftermarket barrels the sky is the limit... starting from 32 caliber, and 12GA.
 
Accuracy is a product of what YOU make it.   
TC's traditional muzzies have always had the ability to be good shooters when fed what each likes best.   Shooting them is a different ball game than shooting modern cartridge rifles - accuracy comes with finding what to feed them, and practice.   
 
FWIW
 
 
   

[Illhunter]

thanks for the info have gotten a line on a nice hawkens. was thinking kind of wondering if the 1" barrels on the renegade would make it better or heavier and the shorter barrel might make it more handy and manuveurable but decrease range slightly. what is the longest distance the rifle would be effective at. is 200 yards out of the question with a traditional ML like the hawkens.
   

[chefjeff]

Bought a renegade in 1980 ,pops has the hawken.They used to have lifetime warranty I think,voided if you drilled&tapped. The 370gr. maxi ball hits like a hammer,drops like a rock.Never shot a deer past 100yds.With irons. As the laws got a little easier(Va.),I don't use the T/C anymore. Shoot smokeless savages now.It was fun in those days though.

[bubba.50]

the renegade might be slightly handier but unless yer huntin' really thick brush country the extra 2 inches of hawken barrel ain't too noticable. no real advantage/disadvantage with either barrel as most ethical hunters will realize the limitations of the weapon and hold shots to 100yds or less. with a lot of practise maybe 125 or so. if ya feel the need for 200yd shots maybe ya should get a savage like chefjeff or stick to rifle season with yer favorite high powered rifle. my opinion and yer welcome to it. luck to ya and have a good'en friend, bubba.

[Illhunter]

generally speaking the 100-125 is about all i would shoot anyway and the high powered rifles are not legal to hunt with here in IL shotguns, ML, or pistol are the only choices. was looking at pistol but have decided the ML would serve me better it is more of which one and most of the hunting is either a stand or spot and stalk. 

[Ladobe]

Only difference weight wise between a TC Hawken (no "s") and a TC Renegade is about half a pound.   Difference in barrel length (same caliber/charge - velocity) is not enough to worry about at the ranges they would be shot deer hunting.   The lighter weight, shorter barrel, lack of brass flash and stock design do given the Renegade some small advantages over the Hawken hunting, especially spot and stock.   If you can find one, the Renegade also came in a single trigger "hunter" model that is easier to use with gloves on in cold climates than the double trigger model or the Hawken that only came with DT's.
 
For just deer either a 45 or 50 is enough even for big deer, you don't need a bigger caliber even out to 100-125.   The bigger cals will make up for poor shot placement though, something to consider maybe as you are new at these - may not yet realize that they are not going to shoot the tiny groups cartridge firearms can, not even at much shorter ranges.   Ethics must come into play with traditional smokepoles even more that cartridge firearms... not take questionable shots beyond what you are confident you can do - every time.   With some folks, 50 yards is their max range for deer hunting with their muzzy, well beyond 100 for others, and with the serious target shooters..... well.  What your effective hunting range will be in the beginning will be less than what it will be later with lots of practice.   Getting use to their slow lock time and ignition, just lobbing lead, etc have to be learned.
 
Some folks discount round balls for hunting and prefer the heavier maxi balls or cast bullets.   Over kill IMO, a RB does an excellent job on big game much larger than deer.   I hunted big western mule deer for years with 50's, elk and bear with 54's, deer again later with 45's, and always with round balls.   I also always used real and not plastic powder, and never felt the need to shoot max loads.   As is typical in the west, ranges could be longish even though I was always a spot and stock hunter (stands wasn't hunting to me).   And I often had to deal with wind strong enough some times that I had to give a free pass rather than chance a bad shot.
 

 
 
 

[Illhunter]

thanks for the help have had one other ML but it was an inline model. So am new to the traditional ones. Waiting to see if can close a deal on a hawken rifle. Depends if can meet FTF or have to ship it.and if i can find real BP.

[bubba.50]

looks like ladobe about has ya straightened out. i've been foolin' with these things for about 40yrs and i still manage to learn from him time to time. no matter the projectile i mostly shoot around 70gr powder so either hawken or renegade is comfortable for me. if yer gonna be shootin' much heavy loads/bullets a renegade would probably be a bit nicer on yer shoulder. also, as stated, roundballs will generally get the job done. the mountain man of old used them for buffalo, grizzly bears and everything in between. one other thing-renegades have a shorter trigger pull so if yer real tall ya might want a recoil pad or somethin' just for the extra reach. if real black is not available to ya it can be ordered right economically if ya order enough to offset the haz-mat fee. maybe go in with some of yer huntin' buddies. luck to ya and have a good'en friend, bubba.

[Illhunter]

not planning on heavy bullets, if can use the ball for most everything. but do have some other one i could try to just to see what it likes,  and do know of one place could get real BP just not sure whuch to use and not sure this deal will happen if not will look into something else for sure. not going to use heavy loads either hopefully less than 100gr loads. just not sure how many f's should use for rifle
when it comes to powder
 

[Anduril]

not going to use heavy loads either hopefully less than 100gr loads. just not sure how many f's should use for rifle when it comes to powder

100 grains of powder is a plenty stiff charge for most shooters.
 
As for powder, get one can each of FF and FFF to experiment with. Depending on the ball size, patch thickness, lube, barrel twist rate, phase of the moon, etc. your gun will tell you which it likes best.
..
 

[pastorp]

I agree that 100gr in a 50cal. Hawken is a stiff charge.  Not dangerous but more than needed. I used 3f in my 50 hawken for years to hunt in New Mexico. 60 gr under a patched round ball for target & small game and 90 gr under the same PRB for deer & elk. 

I later tried a 54 and then a 58 all in hawken style. I really found the 50 did everything I need done. I did try a friends 45 but found it harder to load. probably needed a smaller ball or thinner patch, but I used what he suplied. Anyway I settled on the 50. 

Regards,

[Landngroove]

not going to use heavy loads either hopefully less than 100gr loads. just not sure how many f's should use for rifle
when it comes to powder

If you call T/C, they will send a manual for these ML's. Also,  if you go to the T/C website, the manuals can be downloaded. These will give load, and powder info.