Police object to resisting bill.

[powderman]

http://www.wave3.com/story/17105196/police-still-object-to-indiana-bill-on-resisting
 
 
The bill would protect citizens who resist arrest or entry if it is unwarranted. POWDERMAN. 

[BUGEYE]

I'm sure this came about because of all the "wrong address" home entries so the cops should have seen it coming.
since they have no reason to enter my home, I'm not gonna wait to see if its cops, or thugs that's breaking in.  the shotgun blast would probably make'em scatter.
two innocent people have been killed in this area and it could have been prevented by checking the house number in one case, and not taking the word of a drug addict in the other case.

[Swift One]

Swat cops (and cops in general) are all about the "smash and crash" attitude when it comes to things like this.  They want total control- because they are control freaks. I heard a couple of them talking about this when they were coming through our main gate at our facility.  And I quote, "How the hell are we we supposed to do our jobs if we do not have the authority to enter without question?"  another quote, "It's not a civilian's job to ask.  It's their job to obey what we tell them."  Right there at an entry gate to the facility I work, two cops were having this conversation right in front of us.  They did not like the responses that we gave them.  A little too vulgar to put on this site.  I trully believe there nees to be a whole host of checks and balances for police officers (most of todays). 

[twoshooter]

On this one you have my 110% support. I have been told that passive resistance is also illegal, which I can scarcely believe and will have to check. I have been told that reinforcing door jambs , window grills etc, that would prevent "dynamic entry" is illegal. I have plans drawn for one more home if it turns out that I need to have another, that will be secure unless they come with a bunker buster, or cutting torches, a tow truck, and their lunches to stay the day. OR, they politely knock at the door and are invited in.
     It really disturbs me when purely passive defensive features being incorporated into a building or structure is subjected to restriction, or even scrutiny. I CAN at least understand the reluctance or concern expressed by others to  private citizens building up large offensive capacity, but when they start on measures that cannot be used for any but defensive purposes, that wipes out any credibility they had with me period.

[Old Syko]

The no resist order was brought on after an idiot swat team entered the wrong address and were put down by a man and his family that were doing nothing but defending themselves.  That swat lost and lost badly was an embarrassment to their fragile over inflated egos.  The no resist order will be defeated one way or another. 


People like Swift One mentions have a hard lesson to learn and with attitudes like that they will likely learn them sooner rather than later and all the laws in the world won't change that.     

[Swift One]

It's really sad because believe it or not, I want to like and trust cops.  Hec, I have to work with them and we are their other side of law enforcnement in prison.  After 16yrs though, I have seen and heard to many similarities from cops all over the state and neighboring states.  The trend with most of them is invasive not protective.  When I interact with them I will be professional but defensive with them until THEY show me that their jobs havent blown their head up.

[mechanic]

It's an attitude that has gotten more pervasive.  At Waco, they could have just waited until David Koresh left the compound, but no, they had to do the swat scene.  Too much commando, not enough common sense.  It seems to be commonplace anymore.
 
Ben

[williamlayton]

It is a dangerous job that policemen have to do---they put theirownselves in extra peril if they do not make sure they are doing it correctly.
Police---in general---are very lax at what they do with people and how close they are to being reacted against.
I have been involved with this wrong address business--to the point of the wrong town---and they were very close to a shotgun blast if I had not seen the lights flashing.
I know they need suprise on their side---but a 1AM most folks I know  don't just open the door because someone is banging on it saying they are police.
You need to exert some common sense into your job Officers.
Blessings

[turk762]

This is a strong case for knock and announce. In WI. we are new to the castle doctrine, but police are being told to knock and announce your presents, EX. open doors, broken into homes, ect.ect There are exceptions to the castle doctrine for police and other workers. If you shoot at police when you know who they are because they announced it, pretty good chance you are the bad guy they are after.
If they broke into my house accidently I would be P!!sed, but I am not going to get into a gun battle with them because I feel they are in my home by accident.

[Old Fart]

I find the whole bashing in doors thing kind of disturbing.
What value does a human life have today?
It is like they cannot be inconvenienced with waiting a guy out.
I kind of agree with you about the whole Rambo attitude some of these young guns have.

[nw_hunter]

http://www.wave3.com/story/17105196/police-still-object-to-indiana-bill-on-resisting
 
 
The bill would protect citizens who resist arrest or entry if it is unwarranted. POWDERMAN. 

About thirty years ago, after relocating to a new town and job, I had a three am experience with a visit from the local PD.I heard loud knocking (banging) on the back door.The door at that time was solid and didn't have one of those peek holes.When I asked who was there, he replied the police.I asked what he wanted at such an early hour, and he said they had a call from this residence about a domestic disturbance.I told him to check with his dispatch because no one here had called. He asked me to open the door and I told him come to the front so I see and identify him as an officer. He didn't want to expose himself, and I dang sure didn't plan on it at 3am with only my shorts on.About that time , he got a call from the dispatch and informed he had the wrong address. He apologized,I grumbled and that was that!  Not so sure it would work out the same now.The police have become too Militarized in their approach today.

[mcbammer]

http://www.wave3.com/story/17105196/police-still-object-to-indiana-bill-on-resisting
 
 
The bill would protect citizens who resist arrest or entry if it is unwarranted. POWDERMAN. 

Thats  how  the  Gestopo did  it  .   Bust  in   then   ask  questions.

[guzzijohn]

It sounds like that if I want to break into a home all I have to do is announce that I am the police as I am knocking down the door and I should be safe from any resistance. If all these cops want to play war send them to the middle east, not my neighborhood. In many cases anymore "to protect and serve" is a very poor joke.
GuzziJohn

[Shu]

I have to agree the police are becoming to militarized. It is called investigation to make sure you have the right address, the right person etc. Even here in Clownafornia, the police are suppossed to swear an oath the information on a warrant is true and correct. To me when they swear this oath without any investigation they are breaking the law and nothing more than criminals. Too many these days have the run and gun mentality.  I chewed a cop out for calling me a civillian one day. I told him I, just like him is a citizen. Civillians are non military people. When non military people refer to each other it is citizen. He got the hint.
 
I live in a remote area, I have reinforced doors and widows. To keep people out. They can easily be opened from the inside incase of fire etc. The theft protection system is to prevent theft not to prevent lawenforcement with LEGAL buisness.

[BUGEYE]

my wife and I attend most city council meetings, therefore we know nearly every cop on the force.
also when we are away for a few days, they drive by and sweep the house with their spotlight.
they know our names and address.
get to know your local cops, start a neighborhood watch etc.
most cops are great guys if you get involved.  and our police force knows that this house is heavily armed.
but I still don't like swat teams.

[turk762]

It sounds like that if I want to break into a home all I have to do is announce that I am the police as I am knocking down the door and I should be safe from any resistance. If all these cops want to play war send them to the middle east, not my neighborhood. In many cases anymore "to protect and serve" is a very poor joke.
GuzziJohn

Maybe my post was confusing to you or you want to believe something that is not true. Search Warrants  are still needed unless there is extenuating circumstances, ex, murder in progress, rape, or other serious reasons.
My knock and announce example was for investigating homes broken into or other things of this nature where you enter a premise for legitimate reasons. Its for the protection of police as well as residents so they are not having a gun battle over mistaken identity on both sides of the gun.

How many of you people on hear had your homes broken into accidently by the police? May be it happens more where you live.
So are you saying you will kill any officer that enters your home even if they announce they are the police? Not sure what you mean by RESISTANCE? If resistance means that you will give him a good tongue lashing and file a complaint after the fact, I am 120% with you.
Look up "fruit of the poisonous tree" this is what happens with evidence illegally obtained (ex. no search warrant)

[guzzijohn]

Quote from turk762:
"How many of you people on hear had your homes broken into accidently by the police? May be it happens more where you live."


A simple search will show many examples across the nation.
GuzziJohn

[BUGEYE]

Turk, it was happening too often in the Atlanta area until they got a civilian oversight group.
mistakes have dropped dramatically since then.

[lakota]

So just because someone pounds on my door and says "OPEN UP POLICE!" I should stand down? We all know that the local criminals would never do this because it is illegal to impersonate a police officer right?

[turk762]

So just because someone pounds on my door and says "OPEN UP POLICE!" I should stand down? We all know that the local criminals would never do this because it is illegal to impersonate a police officer right?

Go ahead and shoot it out with them. Let me know how it turns out.
And what do you mean by stand down? Open the Door and move out of the way? HELL NO, they are talking about police kicking the doors in.

[BUGEYE]

So just because someone pounds on my door and says "OPEN UP POLICE!" I should stand down? We all know that the local criminals would never do this because it is illegal to impersonate a police officer right?

[turk762]

Turk, it was happening too often in the Atlanta area until they got a civilian oversight group.
mistakes have dropped dramatically since then.

This is great, this is what should be done if there is abuses going on. My hats off to them.

[Conan The Librarian]

As for the searches by police, it should be noted that when they do break into a home or other property they are not held responsible for any damage. So, if you're on vacation, the cops break in and ransack the place, leave the door open, and maybe leave a note saying they did it, you have no recourse. Not for the initial damage, or the consequent damage after every looter who learns of the open door robs your house of its contents. This does happen regularly. It started at the federal level, and now is not that uncommon at the local level.
 
One of the things to consider is that many police departments depend partially on things they have confiscated. They sell it, and they do their budgeting in the expectation that they will be able to sell x dollars per year to fund budgeted expenses and programs.

[turk762]

Quote from turk762:
"How many of you people on hear had your homes broken into accidently by the police? May be it happens more where you live."


A simple search will show many examples across the nation.
GuzziJohn

Yes Guzzi, I have seen many, some have a valid complaints, many are BS. I am not going to search just because, the fact of the matter is there is alot of BS on the internet and most are people whining because they did something stupid and got caught.
So tell me again, how many times did your door get kicked in by mistake.  No one has had this happen?
Yes, I agree some police are corrupt and this needs to be taken care of. We have a police chief near hear that is facing 10 yrs in prison for his wrong doings.
I know larger cities have more problems with these issues then we have around here.

[lakota]

So just because someone pounds on my door and says "OPEN UP POLICE!" I should stand down? We all know that the local criminals would never do this because it is illegal to impersonate a police officer right?

Go ahead and shoot it out with them. Let me know how it turns out.

You convinced me. Out of control SWAT teams should be able to act out with impunity. They shouldn't be held accountable for acts of negligence either.
 
If they show up at your door you should have to let them in even if they are at the wrong address. They have a search warrant after all. Why split hairs over where it is supposed to be executed?

[turk762]

So just because someone pounds on my door and says "OPEN UP POLICE!" I should stand down? We all know that the local criminals would never do this because it is illegal to impersonate a police officer right?

Go ahead and shoot it out with them. Let me know how it turns out.

You convinced me. Out of control SWAT teams should be able to act out with impunity. They shouldn't be held accountable for acts of negligence either.
 
If they show up at your door you should have to let them in even if they are at the wrong address. They have a search warrant after all. Why split hairs over where it is supposed to be executed?

Hmm, where did I say they should not be held accountable for their actions???
Am I missing something? We are talking about them kicking the doors in right?? Where did this volunteerly opening the doors and letting them in come from. SERIOUSLY, may be I missed something. DO NOT LET THEM IN!!!, you constituationally dont have to.

[SHOOTALL]

In Va if you shoot a cop you go to Jail ! There is a guy in prision now for just that , wrong address no knock warrant.

[turk762]

In Va if you shoot a cop you go to Jail ! There is a guy in prision now for just that , wrong address no knock warrant.

shootall, does VA have the castle doctrine, A defense is written into the law for the shooter here. Trust me, it makes L.E. s butts pucker.

[SHOOTALL]

No it was before the General Assy. this year but it was found it might conflict with our law that says we are not obligated to retreat . So it was put off until next year to allow time to re write it and avoid conflict. I don't think a no knock warrant should be legal . In most cases here they put a strainer in the sewer  before entry if drugs etc may be flushed, also in its so dangerous why not cut utility services and surround the house and wait it out ? It might cost more in money but not in freedom.

[powderman]

A few years ago cops kicked in a mans door about 3 am and stormed in. Homeowner came out of the bdr with a shotgun, he was shot dead. Right street #, wrong street. POWDERMAN.