Author Topic: US Soldier accused of murdering 17 Afghan civilians. (Read 6932 times)

reliquary · « **Reply #90 on:** March 25, 2012, 04:09:56 PM »

TM7: your reply #87, preceding page..."Hasan had some kind of mind/loyalty change after listening to atrocities(maybe like Bale's rampage) and decided to take out as many uniformed combatants as he could"...

Would you mind providing some specifics on how you know this, and which atrocities he keyed in on...the ones that set him off?

Swampman · « **Reply #91 on:** March 26, 2012, 04:28:27 AM »

That happened years ago. We may as well reap the benifits.

reliquary · « **Reply #92 on:** March 26, 2012, 06:33:48 AM »

TM7: well, since you offer, I'd like to see "more backup"; you haven't provided much...if any...yet.
Here is a profile of the "uniformed combatants" poor, afflicted Maj Hasan killed: http://articles.cnn.com/2009-11-06/justice/fort.hood.shootings.victims_1_fort-hood-arizona-daily-star-krem?_s=PM:CRIME. Note that one of them was a pregnant female...but I guess that's okay since she was in uniform and therefore the enemy. Note from other sources that he also wounded 7 civilians...I don't have a breakdown on them yet. Your rationale doesn't track well, here.
My information comes from my former students who are now in uniform over there, and my friends who are still on active duty over there, and my family members who have been over there...here it is: all of them tell me that the vast majority of the atrocities they've witnessed are committed by the jihadis. Your rationale doesn't track well here, either
With respect to your opinions, but it seems that all of them are based on a foundation of "blame America" and/or "blame Israel" . I agree that we and they are not blameless...witness our treatment of minorities in our history (I include the Indians in that) and Israel's early history of blowing up British and Arab facilities. All of those pale in comparison to the history of the jihadi atrocities among themselves and toward "infidels"...I refer specifically to the last 30-40 years.
Now, it's your turn to bring up all the horrible things done by the Crusaders...but that isn't applicable to the situation with our troops.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #93 on:** March 26, 2012, 09:30:31 AM »

The Military prosecutor will have to prove he did it . There are no pictures of bodies , no witnesses that will show up in the court room , the crime scene was disturbed , etc. it will be an interesting case. This was on the Radio the other day.

reliquary · « **Reply #94 on:** March 26, 2012, 11:29:19 AM »

TM7: I'm still looking for you to provide "more backup"...not go on a rant which ignores what I asked for and seems to be just more "blame America" and "vast global conspiracy".
How many women did Hasan shoot? The only reason he didn't shoot kids is that there weren't any in the Processing Center.
You are the one mischaracterizing...I never said that we were completely innocent of any atrocities...I just said "the vast majority of them have been committed by jihadis".
BTW, I agree that Hasan should have been sequestered and discharged when his tendencies came to light. If he had been one of those murderous radical Southern Baptists we see so many of, rather than Muslim, or some white guy putting out KKK material, he would have been.

Spanky · « **Reply #95 on:** March 26, 2012, 12:07:21 PM »

I'm still trying to figure out what all the hoopla is about... he didn't do anything wrong as far as I'm concerned.

Spanky

BUGEYE · « **Reply #96 on:** March 26, 2012, 02:05:35 PM »

TM7 says we killed three million muslims. did we? or is that some nonsense from one of his conspiracy sites?

Spanky · « **Reply #97 on:** March 26, 2012, 02:16:10 PM »

Quote from: BUGEYE on March 26, 2012, 02:05:35 PM

TM7 says we killed three million muslims.

I'd say we're off to a good start.

Spanky

Swampman · « **Reply #98 on:** March 26, 2012, 02:19:51 PM »

Amen...

BUGEYE · « **Reply #99 on:** March 26, 2012, 02:42:30 PM »

Quote from: Spanky on March 26, 2012, 02:16:10 PM

Quote from: BUGEYE on March 26, 2012, 02:05:35 PM
TM7 says we killed three million muslims.

I'd say we're off to a good start.

Spanky

Scibaer · « **Reply #100 on:** March 26, 2012, 09:13:11 PM »

all the hoopla is coming from the pro-muslim crowd in this country that is pushing the islamic agenda, trying to help get the godless evil mob get a foothold in this nation and tear it down from the inside. poor sad innocent arab women and children killed by american soldiers.. bull snot. we are there for many reasons, but if thier actions didnt warrent it, we'd not be there defending all who suffer from the evil invasion of this diseased cult of death.

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #101 on:** March 27, 2012, 03:01:49 AM »

Quote from: Scibaer on March 26, 2012, 09:13:11 PM

all the hoopla is coming from the pro-muslim crowd in this country that is pushing the islamic agenda, trying to help get the godless evil mob get a foothold in this nation and tear it down from the inside.

To what hoopla do you refer to? Concern that our army has been stained by the murderous - allegedly murderous! - acts of one of OUR GUYS? That hoopla?

Quote

poor sad innocent arab women and children killed by american soldiers.. bull snot.

in this case, the victims are not Arabs, but Afghans... there's a difference, right?

Quote

we are there for many reasons, but if thier actions didnt warrent it, we'd not be there defending all who suffer from the evil invasion of this diseased cult of death.

okay... not sure what that meant, but... first off, the invading was done by NATO/US forces. Just for the record and sake of clarity... what do you think justifies the shooting of civilians in the dead of night in their own home, by one of our own soldiers of on his own without orders and in violation of law?

BUGEYE · « **Reply #102 on:** March 27, 2012, 03:09:02 AM »

How many civilians were in the twin towers??
How many women and children have been killed by muslims??
How many PREGNANT women were killed at Fort Hood??

yellowtail3 · « **Reply #103 on:** March 27, 2012, 03:18:48 AM »

Quote from: BUGEYE on March 27, 2012, 03:09:02 AM

How many civilians were in the twin towers??

I don't know - how many of them were killed by the now-dead women and children (allegedly!) shot to death by Bales, and how does their alleged murder advance US interests and the cause of freedom?

Quote

How many women and children have been killed by muslims??

I don't know - how many of them were killed by the now-dead women and children (allegedly!) shot to death by Bales, and how does their alleged murder advance US interests and the cause of freedom?

Quote

How many PREGNANT women were killed at Fort Hood??

I don't know that, either - were any pregnant women at Fort Hood killed by the now-dead women and children (allegedly!) shot to death by Bales?

So then - while I cannot answer your questions - can you? - I can answer mine: NONE of the folks you mention were killed by any of those (allegedly) murdered by Bales. Not one. And I can't think of how the killing of innocents reflects well upon the US Army or our country... which is probably why Bales is being charged by that army with murder.
Does it make one a muzzie sympathizer to notice these things?

guzzijohn · « **Reply #104 on:** March 27, 2012, 03:48:30 AM »

It appears here that for many they consider abortion or murder of young children only a concern if it affects American unborn or young children. If those children killed are muslim or some other non-approved group, kill, kill, kill and that will be fine in God's eye. I think some of these folk here are going to be having to due some big time explaining at the pearly gates.

GuzziJohn

reliquary · « **Reply #105 on:** March 27, 2012, 03:53:27 AM »

Ease up on one another, brothers. IMHO nothing justifies the deliberate murder of innocents. Both Hasan and Bales should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and have justice prevail.
None of the last few posts have been in the spirit I was looking for: which is the difference in perception of the two cases. On the one hand, most folks in the media and a lot of others have tried to rationalize and alibi what Hasan did; in the other case, Bales is being portrayed as a cold-blooded murderer who ought to be taken out and lynched and it's all America's fault in the first place.
Atrocities committed by one group do not justify atrocities being committed by another group; justifying evil by pointing to other, or greater, evil is not an acceptable rationale.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #106 on:** March 27, 2012, 06:53:12 AM »

Quote from: reliquary on March 27, 2012, 03:53:27 AM

Ease up on one another, brothers. IMHO nothing justifies the deliberate murder of innocents.So all officers that order artillery attacks or air attaks etc in areas where non combatants are should be prosicuted ? Both Hasan and Bales should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and have justice prevail.
None of the last few posts have been in the spirit I was looking for: which is the difference in perception of the two cases. One is an enemy deliberate attack to weaken the other side the other may be (if proved) the attack of a sick man .In one case it is surely willful and in character the other is out of character .On the one hand, most folks in the media and a lot of others have tried to rationalize and alibi what Has an did; in the other case, Bales is being portrayed as a coldblooded murderer who ought to be taken out and lynched and it's all America's fault in the first place.
Atrocities committed by one group do not justify atrocities being committed by another group; justifying evil by pointing to other, or greater, evil is not an acceptable rationale.

reliquary · « **Reply #107 on:** March 27, 2012, 12:18:50 PM »

Shootall: you're going way past the intent of my words. What you think you may have heard is not what I thought I said.
I don't consider calling in air and arty on combatants, and having said strikes result in civilian casualties, to be deliberate murder. It would be unfortunate, but not murder, and shouldn't be prosecutable...but one never knows with the current leadership we have.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #108 on:** March 28, 2012, 02:35:41 AM »

Maybe so , but to those who die whats the differece dead is dead . On the other side those kids will become combatants and the women both could feed support combatants and give birth to more combatants. So the guy who kills on the ground ot the officer who orders fire accomplish the same goal keeping the enemy from having a supply of fit fighters.
Its like those who elevate the deer to a status where it can only be killed in a noble way but will turn around and use the most rutless ways to kill other critters . Its all to make us feel better about our actions it has nothing to do about right or wrong about killing .

reliquary · « **Reply #109 on:** March 31, 2012, 08:43:16 AM »

TM7: I'm still waiting for you to provide "more backup" on your assertions about Major Hasan.

reliquary · « **Reply #110 on:** April 04, 2012, 10:35:39 AM »

TM7: if you read those articles in their entirety, not just the out-of-context snippets you provided, they never give any specifics and go on to say that Hasan never provided the documentation to back up his assertions.
I'm referring to the posts you made where you offered to provide, in your words, "more backup" to your implications that atrocities commited by Americans made Hasan go off the deep end. What you've given so far is rumor put out by one or two news sources and then endlessly repeated by other sources for a few days and then quietly dropped for lack of substance....not quite the same as "proof".

reliquary · « **Reply #111 on:** April 05, 2012, 02:54:14 AM »

Well, actually, I guess I was expecting facts rather than unsubstantiated allegations, rumors, and rationalizations.
The points that I previously made: many folks have spent a lot of time rationalizing and excusing what poor, tormented Major Hasan did at Fort Hood, and some of these same folks have already tried and convicted SSGT Bales in the press, and besides, all of it was America's fault, anyway.
Thank you for helping me demonstrate those points.

ironglow · « **Reply #112 on:** April 05, 2012, 03:11:44 AM »

So we have a new category.. "PTSD by osmosis" ! I guess we can expect a contaigon in our general population now, because so many wives, children, co-workers, business associates etc.. are dealing daily with veterans who have experienced war trauma.

It would appear to me that trying to claim "PTSD by osmosis" rather than the "Allah Akbar".. while killing , his "soldier of Allah" business card and his membership in a radical mosque... is rather like.. ignoring the ELEPHANT in the room !

reliquary · « **Reply #113 on:** April 05, 2012, 03:19:00 AM »

You, as any other citizen, have the rights to any opinions you choose to hold. Voicing the opinions is also any citizen's rights. Any other citizen is entitled to voice his or her own, and to disagree with anyone else's. I really don't care where or how you voice yours and am not trying to silence you.

You have alleged that Major Hasan was driven to do what he did because of atrocities committed by Americans. I'm looking for you to present facts to back up this allegation. Facts, not unsubstantiated claims made by nonauthoritative sources.

ironglow · « **Reply #114 on:** April 05, 2012, 03:50:16 AM »

So Hassan wanted GIs tried for "war crimes";
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Report: Major Nidal Hasan wanted some patients tried for war crimes According to the Dallas Morning News, Nidal Hasan, the major who murdered 14 people at Ft. Hood sought to have some of his patients tried for war crimes based on ...
ztruth.typepad.com/.../report-nidal-hasan-wanted...for-war-crimes.html

Report: Hasan Wanted Patient War Crimes Trials | Military.com Fort Hood massacre suspect Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan sought to have some of his patients prosecuted for war crimes based on ... Hasan may have been legally justified in reporting ...
www.military.com/news/article/report-hasan...war-crimes-trials.html
Hasan and War Crimes and Congressional Briefings | Emptywheel Fort Hood massacre suspect Nidal Malik Hasan sought to have some of his patients prosecuted for war crimes based on ... they did not want him reporting war crimes?
emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/11/17/hasan-and-war-crimes
Hasan Wanted Soldiers Prosecuted for War Crimes | Verum Serum Nidal Hasan gave a slideshow for a group of soldiers in ... KCEN is reporting that one policeman is down and that ... of soldiers he claimed had confessed to “war crimes ...
www.verumserum.com/?p=10292
Nidal Malik Hasan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Probably, Bernadine Dohrn, Saddam Hussein, William Ayers and Ahmadinijad would like our troops tried for war crimes too, but that doesn'r absolve them for any crimes they may have committed... ·

reliquary · « **Reply #115 on:** April 05, 2012, 07:52:33 AM »

TM7: go back and read the things you've previously posted in this discussion. I'm just summarizing them. If you are now disagreeing with, or quibbling about, what you said previously, that's not my problem.

reliquary · « **Reply #116 on:** April 06, 2012, 02:26:37 AM »

I see that both have been accused of horrible crimes. Under the law, both are presumed to be innocent until tried and the facts of the cases are decided on in open court...facts, not unsubstantiated speculation. As a career serviceman ('66-'86) and RVN veteran, if I could be on the board and the cases were proved in court, I'd have no problems adjuding either Bales or Hasan guilty and consequently voting for the death penalty.
My point is and has been to demonstrate the differences in perceptions in the cases: that many folks, including you, have been rationalizing that Hasan "had motivation for his crime"...your words... and waffling about Bales's motivations & involvement....that folks have described Hasan's shootings as a workplace incident while calling Bales' a war crime and atrocity...etc.
Thanks for your input; nothing more from me on this.

Singleshotsam · « **Reply #117 on:** April 06, 2012, 04:13:32 AM »

Look if you two are only going to drag this thread on for 20 pages because your trying to figure out who's ego is bigger then take it up via PM. The thread is originally about Ssgt Bales. So either shift the discussion back to that or I'll lock it.

I'm trying really hard to leave these threads as unmoderated as possible but if your not going to police yourselves then I don't really have an option but to either get things back on track or lock it.

reliquary · « **Reply #118 on:** April 06, 2012, 10:44:00 AM »

As I said in post # 132, I've made my point and am out of the discussion. Thanks for your forbearance.

Scibaer · « **Reply #119 on:** April 06, 2012, 11:00:20 AM »

TM7,
i have minimized nothing in topic. or have in looked the other way. and certainly my personal views are not going to bring the US into signing on with the anti-christ ( im not real sure what that even means ) my opinions are just that and nothing more. i sure dont expect to type anything here and convert you , or even have you understand me. i dont care to hear anyone apologizing for the actions of any middle eastern individual here or abroad. all i want is for americans to support american soldiers regardless. did that soldier do wrong ? maybe but maybe not in the bigger picture.