Author Topic: Fracking and earthquakes - connected? Problem? (Read 1231 times)

guzzijohn · « **on:** March 12, 2012, 03:30:34 AM »

Maybe this should be studied a bit more before we go all out with "drill, baby, drill". Just sayin.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/nov/02/fracking-cause-lancashire-quakes

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/09/ohio-fracking-earthquakes-cause-determined_n_1334808.html

GuzziJohn

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #1 on:** March 12, 2012, 03:48:38 AM »

Earthquakes are related mostly to tectonic activity. and drilling is not likely to stimulate any new earthquakes. Fracking does have serious negative potential, but that is in pumping toxic chemicals into aquifers. The thing to be vigilant for is how the oil industry will say "we use almost pure water". Well, the one to three percent of non-water chemicals they use are often proprietary, have been found to be horribly toxic, and also to be persistent in the environment.

mcbammer · « **Reply #2 on:** March 12, 2012, 03:57:15 AM »

It dont take a scientist to know when you turn on a water faucet and get a blow torch , something going wrong.

ironglow · « **Reply #3 on:** March 12, 2012, 04:13:11 AM »

"Fracking" is the newest Eco-freak effort to halt progress and cripple capitalism. Yes, it's possibe to find places wher natural gas comes out of the earth on it's own..even sometimes from a faucet, but it doesn't have anything to do with fracking. "Fracking" has been going on for over a century with no proven negatives so dire as the eco-freaks describe.
There are places where these natural emissions are set afire and continue to burn. Not more than 30 miles from where I live is the place where oil was first discovered in the western world. It was an open spring where crude oil bubbled up out of the ground.
The spring itself is for the most part dried up by now, most likely tapped by nearby wells but the sinkhole is still there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuba_(town),_New_York scroll dow to "Seneca oil spring".

oldandslow · « **Reply #4 on:** March 12, 2012, 04:25:06 AM »

It's been used here for many, many years. Noting new at all. No contaminated water and we have very good water. No earthquakes either.

powderman · « **Reply #5 on:** March 12, 2012, 05:02:09 AM »

Just another excuse to try and cover obamas agenda of driving prices up to hurt us, and destroy America, the liberal agenda. POWDERMAN.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2012, 12:02:45 PM »

Ok, my company fracks at over 5,000' well below any water tables. We INSTALL 5 LAYERS of various size pipe and concrete to seal the main center pipe from any water trapped between rock layers. We continue to drill to 5,000 + feet or more, usually over a mile, to the layer that holds the natural gas. Then we insert under pressure 99% water and 1% biodegradeable oil, like cooking oil, for lubrication of parts and pump. This hydraulic pressure fracks the shale rock trapping the gas, which is then released up through the pipe. Fracking is done in 8 different directions from the center well. Once the gas is released to where it is not profitable, then the well is sealed. Water takes the place of the gas in the shale. Earthquakes need a lot more pressure or lack of, to result, than what little fracking does. Yet now we have a glut of natural gas for power generation, vehicle transportation, heating our homes and hot water, cooking, and clothes drying. You guys come up with something cheaper, and the market will use it. Solar and wind still cost more, and they can't run vehicles.

ironglow · « **Reply #7 on:** March 12, 2012, 12:48:58 PM »

Can any of you anti gas retrieval people just a bit of credence to Dixie Dude, who has long experience in the business ? Do you have more experience in the field ?
Here in my home area, there are vast deposits of gas, but the "people's Republik of NY" has not approved it's retrieval. Still, we have had a couple greenies already campaigning against "fracking". They are the usual suspects....anti-everything which would create wealth and jobs..
Here's DD, giving us the "skinny' about the whole process; why is it some folks cannot accept wisdom wherever it can be found ?

BTW; just about 30 miles from me, Pennsylvania is gaining wealth for some small land holders, jobs for the unemployed and funds for the state..by "fracking".. Of course, for folks closer to the border, it is only feet away from prosperity and common sense.

DDZ · « **Reply #8 on:** March 12, 2012, 01:17:41 PM »

When the marcellus shale drilling started in this area, panic was started by the environmentalists and those against drilling. People were running around saying the water table was going to be poisoned, and local reservoirs were going to drain into the abyss. Its the way it always happens. Its the environmentalists mo. They play on the public's ignorance, to sway opinion in their favor. Especially anytime it has anything to do with oil or gas. All they need to do is start their "sky is falling" ploy.
Like, the ozone hole is growing, because people won't stop driving SUV's, Global warming is happening, global warming is going to cause an ice age, birds are being poisoned, and falling from the sky. Bush is poisoning the water. The air and water are becoming more polluted, to many people, we are running out of resources, we are going to starve, cow farts are creating to much methane . DDT is softening birds egg shells. It doesn't matter that DDT has saved millions of lives, we can't take the chance that a birds egg might be softened...etc...etc

Environmentalists have no interest in the environment, no interest at all in human life, or welfare. the environment is nothing more than a propaganda tool, and a means to control people through fear. The idea that fracking is going to cause major earthquakes, and that fracking water is loaded with poisonous chemicals, is no different than the rest of their fear creating propaganda.

ironglow · « **Reply #9 on:** March 12, 2012, 01:20:47 PM »

From DDZ;
" Environmentalists have no interest in the environment, no interest at all in human life, or welfare. the environment is nothing more than a propaganda tool, and a means to control people through fear. The idea that fracking is going to cause major earthquakes, and that fracking water is loaded with poisonous chemicals, is no different than the rest of their fear creating propaganda."
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

More true words have never been spoken...

The old anti who attends our town meetings looks like a double for Jeff Dunham's grouchy old puppet, Walter. Walter has enlisted the help of a 30 something female who looks like a skinny, frustrated dyke.. Typical I guess..below, see Walter (on the right)

SwampThing762 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 12, 2012, 07:15:42 PM »

Walter is prettier , and funnier, than Vice-President Biteme. Off-topic, but the VP is the poster-boy for contraception and birth control.

ST762

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #11 on:** March 13, 2012, 01:09:31 AM »

Well, we have done study after study on alternative natural gas. Cows from dairy farms and feed stalls can produce 1/3 of the natural gas used in America from cow manure. HOWEVER it costs about $5-8 per million cubit feet to extract due to it's labor intensitivity. Fracking less than $2 per MCF. There is a 30,000 year supply of natural gas trapped in hydrates in the Burmuda Triangle, but it also will cost over $5/MCF to mine and extract. However Japan is trying a new method off their coast to extract the methane hydrates off their coast. If it works, we have an almost limitless supply for centruies at a cheap price. We also have about a 200 year supply of OIL in shale formations, but it is under federal lands and off limits to drilling, NOT the 2% Obama says we have. That is from traditional sources. It is just simply a LIE.

mcbammer · « **Reply #12 on:** March 13, 2012, 04:24:11 AM »

Quote from: Dixie Dude on March 12, 2012, 12:02:45 PM

Ok, my company fracks at over 5,000' well below any water tables. We INSTALL 5 LAYERS of various size pipe and concrete to seal the main center pipe from any water trapped between rock layers. We continue to drill to 5,000 + feet or more, usually over a mile, to the layer that holds the natural gas. Then we insert under pressure 99% water and 1% biodegradeable oil, like cooking oil, for lubrication of parts and pump. This hydraulic pressure fracks the shale rock trapping the gas, which is then released up through the pipe. Fracking is done in 8 different directions from the center well. Once the gas is released to where it is not profitable, then the well is sealed. Water takes the place of the gas in the shale. Earthquakes need a lot more pressure or lack of, to result, than what little fracking does. Yet now we have a glut of natural gas for power generation, vehicle transportation, heating our homes and hot water, cooking, and clothes drying. You guys come up with something cheaper, and the market will use it. Solar and wind still cost more, and they can't run vehicles.

Thanks for explaining the process . All most of us know is what the media shows us.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #13 on:** March 13, 2012, 04:36:43 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on March 12, 2012, 12:48:58 PM

Can any of you anti gas retrieval people just a bit of credence to Dixie Dude, who has long experience in the business ? Do you have more experience in the field ?
Here in my home area, there are vast deposits of gas, but the "people's Republik of NY" has not approved it's retrieval. Still, we have had a couple greenies already campaigning against "fracking". They are the usual suspects....anti-everything which would create wealth and jobs..
Here's DD, giving us the "skinny' about the whole process; why is it some folks cannot accept wisdom wherever it can be found ?

BTW; just about 30 miles from me, Pennsylvania is gaining wealth for some small land holders, jobs for the unemployed and funds for the state..by "fracking".. Of course, for folks closer to the border, it is only feet away from prosperity and common sense.

my favorite uncle spent his entire working life with a gas company which operated in MS and LA.
he never told me a thing that would contradict Dixie Dude.

jhm · « **Reply #14 on:** March 13, 2012, 06:26:55 AM »

I am in the middle of the Fayetville shale area in central Ar. as far as the earthquakes go a neighbor had one of the dry well converted to accept used water abt. 3 miles from me and another well was being used for the same purpose in Guy Ar. abt 8 miles away when they were using the wells to recieve the used water we were having earthquakes on a daily basis, so the state decided to close them down and almost immediately the earthquakes STOPED, I really dont know for sure but it appears to me they had something to do with it. Jim

ironglow · « **Reply #15 on:** March 13, 2012, 04:55:42 PM »

They had an earthquake in southeast Missouri last week...I heard somebody was planting corn...

I've about made up my mind, planting corn causes earthquakes..

SwampThing762 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 13, 2012, 05:26:14 PM »

I think there was one here in Florida last week, the same day I hauled a couple of big catfish out of an old phosphate pit that is now a state fish management area. No fracking as I recall.

ST762

streak · « **Reply #17 on:** March 13, 2012, 05:41:31 PM »

I`m glad DD took the time to explain the process of fracking. I am also in the in the Oil & Gas industry and fracking has been going on for a long long time and no it does cause earthquakes. Fracking is an useful tool in extracting oil and gas from the formations, the only downside that I ever have seen in fracking is sometimes it will screw up a otherwise producing well if it is not done correctly or " Murphy`s Law" comes into play!

BUGEYE · « **Reply #18 on:** March 14, 2012, 01:45:51 AM »

Quote from: SwampThing762 on March 13, 2012, 05:26:14 PM

I think there was one here in Florida last week, the same day I hauled a couple of big catfish out of an old phosphate pit that is now a state fish management area. No fracking as I recall.

ST762

you made the pond lighter by catching two large fish, which caused the upward pressure from below to move the earth a little.
this is common when I go fishing.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #19 on:** March 14, 2012, 02:03:40 AM »

When we see things like this taking over the news does it ever make you wonder what really bad thing they are trying to draw attention away from ?

thirty06 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 14, 2012, 02:52:44 AM »

I too live in AR. When they stopped the fracking the earthquakes stopped. OK maybe they were right.
A few months later no fracking, the earthqukes are back. Maybe they weren't right.

gypsyman · « **Reply #21 on:** March 14, 2012, 05:14:38 AM »

Probably has to do with the area they happen to be drilling in. Some area's, it will not bother a thing. Others it will. gypsyman

redneckly33 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 14, 2012, 08:49:30 PM »

I worked in the Gulf Of Mexico for 33 years. I have been on many Frack Jobs. This is a simple procedure where the Well is fracked Hydralicly with the use of water. How far does the fractures extend from the wellbore? I can only guess, I don't know. Sand is pumped into the Wellbore to hold the fractures open. This sand is pumped in a slurry. It is also know as Gravel Packing. The Frac fluid is recovered and disposed of. I worked in Water from a few feet deep to as much as 3500 feet before I retired. I also feel that the price of Gasoline is being controlled to force us into the Hybrid Vehicles. Just my opinon. I apoligize if I am out of line here. I'm just trying to explain this to People who don't have experience with this. It has long been a law that any fresh water zones that the drill bit passes through, must be isolated from the Wellbore. This is accomplished With Casing. Steel pipe that is used in the Drilling of Oil and Gas Wells. Just trying to keep it simple. My Contribution to this Subject. I never felt any Earth Quakes while Offshore. I didn't say it didn't happen, just said I didn't feel it.

Redneckly

powderman · « **Reply #23 on:** March 15, 2012, 04:51:50 AM »

REDNECKLY33. Thanks for the insight and good post. POWDERMAN.

redneckly33 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 15, 2012, 05:45:58 AM »

I agree about the de-stabilization. The slurry is pumped into the fractures to hold them open to have a path for the Oil or Gas to flow to the Wellbore. The first Deepwater Platform I worked on was in 1979. It was called " Cognac". It was located about 15 miles South right straight out of the river. It was in a 1000 ft. of water and at that time was the Worlds tallest Offshore structure. Two Platform rigs were set up on it and 64 wells were drilled and completed. In its best days, it produced 100,000 Barrels of Oil per day. It was on the Continental Shelf. We had severe problems with Mudslides, which would actually shear off the Conducter Pipe. At the time I was a Floor hand on Shell Rig 21. It took 3 years to Drill and Complete the 64 Wells. I worked for Shell for 20 years in both Drilling and Production. Before my Career ended with Shell, they had moved on to TLP Platforms, Horizontal Wells and such. The tecnology was advancing so fast, it was like taking a trip to the Moon. All of the Majors were involved in it. Enough ramblin for the day. I'm retired. I've got work to do outside or my Wife is going to retire me permanetly.

Have a Great Day
Redneckly

Buckskin · « **Reply #25 on:** March 15, 2012, 06:13:53 AM »

Yes fracking does sometimes cause earthquakes. Very, very small quakes. So small that nearly all of them cannot even be detected. And guess what? They have been doing this for over a hundred years, this is not a new process. Why the big hub-bub now? Because liberals need it for ammo to push their failing green agenda.

California and Alaska have hundreds of earthquakes every day that are undetectable as well, big deal...

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** March 15, 2012, 07:08:11 AM »

no big deal ? in lousia county va they will now spend over 40 million to rebuild their high school. that's a big deal. they have had over 100 after shocks some were a big deal.

earth quakes in the simplest is rock slipping past each other along a crack. the movement can be in any direction. which slips easiest wet or dry rock. in hydrofracking large amounts of water are introduced .

Cuts Crooked · « **Reply #27 on:** March 15, 2012, 07:25:48 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on March 15, 2012, 07:08:11 AM

no big deal ? in lousia county va they will now spend over 40 million to rebuild their high school. that's a big deal. they have had over 100 after shocks some were a big deal.

earth quakes in the simplest is rock slipping past each other along a crack. the movement can be in any direction. which slips easiest wet or dry rock. in hydrofracking large amounts of water are introduced .

Uh, The amount of water involved in fracking is minute compared to the other forces involved in creating an earth quake......mother nature plays on a much larger scale than man.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #28 on:** March 15, 2012, 07:30:13 AM »

very true but a drop of oil in the right place ...............................

streak · « **Reply #29 on:** March 15, 2012, 10:14:05 AM »

Quote from: redneckly33 on March 14, 2012, 08:49:30 PM

I worked in the Gulf Of Mexico for 33 years. I have been on many Frack Jobs. This is a simple procedure where the Well is fracked Hydralicly with the use of water. How far does the fractures extend from the wellbore? I can only guess, I don't know. Sand is pumped into the Wellbore to hold the fractures open. This sand is pumped in a slurry. It is also know as Gravel Packing. The Frac fluid is recovered and disposed of. I worked in Water from a few feet deep to as much as 3500 feet before I retired. I also feel that the price of Gasoline is being controlled to force us into the Hybrid Vehicles. Just my opinon. I apoligize if I am out of line here. I'm just trying to explain this to People who don't have experience with this. It has long been a law that any fresh water zones that the drill bit passes through, must be isolated from the Wellbore. This is accomplished With Casing. Steel pipe that is used in the Drilling of Oil and Gas Wells. Just trying to keep it simple. My Contribution to this Subject. I never felt any Earth Quakes while Offshore. I didn't say it didn't happen, just said I didn't feel it.

Redneckly

Good post rn33!