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Author Topic: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges  (Read 4388 times)

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Offline burdickjp

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rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« on: March 12, 2012, 04:22:55 AM »
I'm going to be hand-loading cartridges for my Handi.  It is currently chambered for .223 Remington with the faster barrel, I believe it's a 1 in 9 twist.


I'm looking for a load which will be good for killing paper out to 300m.  Not considering using it for anything more than killing paper.  I'm considering switching to .17 Hornet, but I'm afraid of wind characteristics at 300m.


I'm relatively certain I want to stick with .224/5.7mm bullets, as the plethora available should give me years of playing.  I'm thinking I'm wanting 68-75g bullets and wanting close to 3000ft/s velocities.  This is an uneducated guess.


I've found a few cartridges which look like they'll perform well and can either be formed to the chamber, or have the chamber reamed to the new cartridge:  .222-rimmed, 5.6x50R, 5.6x57R.


Does anyone have any experience with similar cartridges and have a suggestion as to where I can find more information on this?
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Offline moorepower

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2012, 05:04:04 AM »
The .223 will do what you ask with the 75 grain hpbt Hornady if it will stabilize in your gun. Th 75 will go 2850-2900 fps. If you must shoot rimmed, I would consider the .225 Winchester for reasonable brass availability.
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Offline Couger

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2012, 05:56:47 AM »
If you're only killing paper, can it ONLY be in .223?
 
You could get 5.6X50R brass and shorten it/neck it down ...... but why go through that trouble if the .225 winchester would work as suggested by Moorepower, or have your chamber lengthened and extractor changed for the 5.6X50R!  ;)
 
On the other hand, you could always get a .22 Hornet Handi-barrel
and have it rechambered to .222 Rimmed that Norma makes brass for.
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Offline moorepower

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2012, 07:46:40 AM »
The .222 rimmed is lower psi round and will not get close to the desired velocity. How about a 1-9 .22-250 with a no turn neck set up to shoot the new high b.c. 53 grain V-max at 36-3800 fps.
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Offline burdickjp

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2012, 07:57:03 AM »
I bought this rifle to be a learning experience from beginning to end.  Part of that learning is going to be reloading.  If I can learn more by fire-forming brass, reaming a chamber, or doing a small amount of gunsmithing, then good!  Learning is always good.
I will be reloading the .223 I do have as suggested, and probably enjoying it for a while, but the goal will be to put something together which is rimmed.

I've also seen a few interesting loads based on .357 brass...


and I still can't get .17 Hornet out of my head.   It probably won't do what I'm wanting to do, but it still sounds interesting.
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Offline Catshooter45

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 09:47:41 AM »
I took a Handi 223 barrel and had a friend re-chamber it to 225 Win.  I wanted a rimmed cartridge.
 
I do not use mine for paper with jacketed; I'd use cast for that.
 
Nosler 60 grain partitions over AA 2230 give me 3229 feet average and about 1/2 MOA.  Primers were slightly flattened but case head expansion was nil.  Ejector had no trouble popping them out.
 
Works for me.
 
 
Cat
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2012, 11:00:05 AM »
225 Winchester was the first thing I thought of... As long as you can get some brass.
 Based on your given criteria, I can not think of a better caliber...
 
CW
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Offline burdickjp

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2012, 01:44:35 PM »
Interestingly enough I was following a few muses such as "how long of a .357 case can I find?  not long enough"  "what about necking .303 brit?  Popular in Australia..."  "necking .30-30?...BINGO!"


It would seem the .219 Zipper and .225 Win are both derivatives of a necked .30-30 case.  So I guess I'm following the right bunny trail there.


Both seem to have MUCH more case volume than the .223, and MUCH higher velocities, in the 22-250 range.  What kind of barrel life can I expect out of .225 Win or .219?




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Offline Dinny

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2012, 02:47:25 PM »
There are a few wildcats out there that fit the bill. 22 x 307 (22-250), 22 Max Cat (uses .357 Max brass), 22 x 444. I would expect barrel life of a .225 Win to be very similar to that of a 22-250. I don't recall anyone having issues with barrel life from a single shot.


225 brass is available at Midway. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1390227108/winchester-brass-225-winchester


Thanks, Dinny
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Offline nevada75

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2012, 02:56:59 PM »
225 Win is what I recommend.  Brass and dies can be bought new from MidwayUSA.  Cost more than 223 other common cartridges but then again you'll be the only person at the range with a 225 Win.
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Offline burdickjp

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2012, 04:46:35 PM »
Thanks, guys!  I'll keep you updated with what I find, go with, etc.  You've given me a lot of direction!  I really appreciate it.
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Offline Couger

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2012, 12:25:45 AM »
Another consideration ..... ?
 
the .219 Wasp!  (basically an improved .219 Zipper)
 
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Offline Catshooter45

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2012, 11:37:06 AM »
Can't use the Zipper, it won't clean up the 223 chamber.  Otherwise that's where I'd've gone for sure.  What a cool round.
 
 
Cat
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Offline cudatruck

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2012, 12:38:31 PM »
after necking down the .30-30 case for the 225 win do you have to turn the rims down or do you rim cut the barrel for both?
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2012, 12:45:23 PM »
Quote from: Catshooter45 on March 13, 2012, 11:37:06 AM
Can't use the Zipper, it won't clean up the 223 chamber.  Otherwise that's where I'd've gone for sure.  What a cool round.
 
 
Cat

219 Zipper Improved will work according to the AG rechamber guide.   ;)

Tim
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Offline Couger

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2012, 07:36:17 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo
Quote from: Catshooter45
Can't use the Zipper, it won't clean up the 223 chamber.  Otherwise that's where I'd've gone for sure.  What a cool round.Cat

219 Zipper Improved will work according to the AG rechamber guide.   ;)  Tim

Methought too.  But whatever ..... Iffn it did, could .219 Improved (.219 Donaldson Wasp) cases be made by simply firing them in an 'improved' chamber?  :D
 
If YES, I think the best answers to this thread would be the .225 Win or .219 Wasp!
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Offline Darreld Walton

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2012, 02:26:36 AM »
.22 Savage Hi Power with .224 diameter bullets?
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Offline burdickjp

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2012, 03:09:57 AM »
I looked at the .22 savage, but not much further than looking.  I really wish I could find some extra long .357.  Then I could make .223 rimmed brass and have just that:  .223 Remington with a rim.  Use .223 rem dies and all.
.224 BRM, maybe? Dies and brass are cheap.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2012, 05:20:13 AM »
Quote from: Couger on March 13, 2012, 07:36:17 PM
Quote from: quickdtoo
Quote from: Catshooter45
Can't use the Zipper, it won't clean up the 223 chamber.  Otherwise that's where I'd've gone for sure.  What a cool round.Cat

219 Zipper Improved will work according to the AG rechamber guide.   ;)  Tim

Methought too.  But whatever ..... Iffn it did, could .219 Improved (.219 Donaldson Wasp) cases be made by simply firing them in an 'improved' chamber?  :D
 
If YES, I think the best answers to this thread would be the .225 Win or .219 Wasp!

219 Wasp won't clean up the 223 chamber.

Tim

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Offline Catshooter45

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2012, 06:09:10 AM »
225 brass and dies were easy for me to find.  And it delivers all the ballistics that I wanted. 
 
The Zipper, to me, was an elegant old fashioned looking round that I could make out of 30-30 brass which is everywhere and cheap.  I already make 38-55 out of 'em.  Too bad.
 
 
Cat
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Offline Couger

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2012, 03:09:19 PM »
Quote from: quickdtoo
219 Wasp won't clean up the 223 chamber.  Tim

Oh!!??  Your diagram looks like it would!  Just how "sloppy" is that .223 chamber?  If it had an extra long throat/leads to the rifling then I could see a problem.
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Offline cab32

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2012, 04:01:00 PM »
What about the 220 Swift. It si rimmed and should clean up the 223 chanber just fine. \
CAB
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2012, 04:36:49 AM »
Id shoot the .223 for a year and get the experience before I did anything. At this point, what you think you want and what you really want may not be the same thing.
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2012, 05:32:00 AM »
Quote from: Couger on March 14, 2012, 03:09:19 PM
Quote from: quickdtoo
219 Wasp won't clean up the 223 chamber.  Tim

Oh!!??  Your diagram looks like it would!  Just how "sloppy" is that .223 chamber?  If it had an extra long throat/leads to the rifling then I could see a problem.

The 223 is .060" longer to the shoulder/neck datum than the Wasp.

Tim


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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2012, 05:36:29 AM »
Quote from: cab32 on March 14, 2012, 04:01:00 PM
What about the 220 Swift. It si rimmed and should clean up the 223 chanber just fine. \
CAB

220 Swift would clean up fine if the 9" twist wasn't a problem, it's prolly too fast, 1:12" would be a better choice.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,131985.msg1098493577.html#msg1098493577
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2012, 05:54:26 AM »
Im not too sure that 'overstabilization' isnt a myth........
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Offline quickdtoo

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #26 on: March 15, 2012, 05:57:14 AM »
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Offline gcrank1

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #27 on: March 15, 2012, 06:57:17 AM »
I agree that it does happen, but I think not 'all that often'? A lot of rounds are fired with complete satisfaction in fast twists. Look at all the 'lightweight' bullets fired in .30cal rifles designed for the mil-spec bullet, among many others.
Bottom line is, try it in what you have and see if it works  ;D .
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Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2012, 07:01:29 AM »
All that about a new bottle but the 1-9 twist might limit you on bullet weight. Seems 75 gr a bit heavy for the 1-9 . The military went to 1-7 for their heavy bullet .
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Offline cwlongshot

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Re: rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges
« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2012, 07:18:21 AM »
Quote from: gcrank1 on March 15, 2012, 05:54:26 AM
Im not too sure that 'overstabilization' isnt a myth........

I agree, I have said many times, I do not believe you can OVER- stabilize a bullet.

CW
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