rimmed 5.56/.223 cartridges

[moorepower]

The question is:  will I need any more pressure than could be provided in a shorter case, which would still have more volume than the .223 Rem case?


.223 reloading stuff on the way this week.  Will be experimenting with .223 stuffs probably for the rest of the summer and be doing more research until it freezes.  Should be rechambering this winter.

The more capacity the case the less psi required for the same velocity.
I can't imagine a .225 not ejecting/extracting and worse with a little bit less rim protruding. Just keep the psi sane and it will be fine.

[quickdtoo]

A good example of that is the 45-120 compared to the 45-70, 500gr 1800fps loads in the 45-120 run ~31kpsi and 50kpsi in the 45-70.

Tim

[broom_jm]

I could always pick up forming dies and form my own .225 from .30-30 or .25-35 brass.  This would allow me to keep the rim, and wouldn't involve that much work in the chamber.

The thing to understand is that the 225 case, while derived from the 30/30 is actually built a whole lot stronger, particularly in the web area.  That's why the 225 Winchester runs at 56,500psi while the 30/30 runs at 42,000psi.  You can make brass with the EXTERNAL dimensions of the 225, from 30/30 brass, but you'd be tempting fate to then use full-throttle loads in those cases.

You can get 225 brass for a pretty reasonable price at Midway or a few other places.  You won't find it everywhere, but if you could, that would just be BORING!   

I still say the 225 AI is whatchya need.   

[burdickjp]

You can make brass with the EXTERNAL dimensions of the 225, from 30/30 brass, but you'd be tempting fate to then use full-throttle loads in those cases.

I'm plinking with this thing.  That's it's purpose.  I might put together loads for heavier bullets for windy days, but the purpose of the gun is to get a projective to a piece of paper 200-300m away as efficiently as possible.  I've been considering .17 Hornady and some of the 5mm calibers as well, but I believe wind drift will make it much less fun.


What I'm getting at is that I don't believe I'll really be abusing the brass that much.

[moorepower]

I would still go with the .225 brass.

[burdickjp]

I probably will be.  I'm just not intending on jumping into anything feet first until I've exhausted all of my options.  I see .222 rimmed brass is available from a few sources for a small fortune.  I'm curious that this could be sized for a .223 chamber and a minimum of easy machining could be done to accept the rim.  The hope would be a literal .223 cartridge with a rim.


This site:
http://www.bellmtcs.com/FAQ/about_the_5 6 cartridges.htm
says that 5.6x50R can be used to make a rimmed version of .223 Rem.  JACKPOT.  That makes me think that the .222 rimmed may also be of use.  If I can find some 5.6x50R I'll be ordering it, otherwise I'll see about .222 rimmed.

[smokehouserex]

 
 
  I believe the 375 Win. brass will substitute anywhere the 30-30 is used and it is much stronger than the 30-30 or the 38-55. It does cost more but it is very strong.
  HM

[gcrank1]

Is it a different cartridge brass alloy?; and if so where can I find documentation to that regard?

[burdickjp]

Did some reading over the weekend which favors the 225 Win.  P.O. Ackley speaks highly of it in his books.  It seems a semi-rimmed cartridge headspaces on the shoulder, which is apparently more accurate than rimmed cartridges headspacing on the rim.

[gcrank1]

IIRC, a properly done rimmed cartridge chamber should also headspace on the shoulder (in a perfect world), but have the rim as a positive extraction structure. I know I have read about overly long necks and throats in 30-30 reamers, especially for cast bullets, so if building/rechambering anything, one needs to research and ask the proper questions before ordering. Remember a sloppy chamber is a sloppy launch platform, no matter how good, or expensive, a barrel is.

[burdickjp]

Everywhere that has 5.6x50R wants a small fortune for it.  Considering the flexibility of a cartridge with a larger case capacity, the price of brass, and availability of dies I think I've my answer: 225 Win.
Especially considering that if available brass goes the way of the dodo I would still be able to put together SOMETHING for it with other available brass.

[dh260]

Can't use the Zipper, it won't clean up the 223 chamber.  Otherwise that's where I'd've gone for sure.  What a cool round.
 
 
Cat

A .219 Zipper Improved reamer will clean up a .223 chamber. Cases can be made by necking down/fireforming .30-30 or .25-35. Some work to make cases but parent cases are readily available and inexpensive. Imp. Zipper equals the .225 and uses the common .30-30 extractor.
A .224 R-C Maxi is a .222 rimmed made from necked down .357 Max case. I would have to look it up but have info about cutting this type chamber using a std .223 reamer then making the rim cut with lathe tool. Cartridges of the World shows 3200 fps with 55 gr bullet.

[briannmilewis]

An old post said just use a Hornet barrel and .219 Zipper reamer...no issue, and leave a long neck so you don't have to trim any off a 25-35 case.

[Catshooter45]

 
{Quote}  A .219 Zipper Improved reamer will clean up a .223 chamber. Cases can be made by necking down/fireforming .30-30 or .25-35. Some work to make cases but parent cases are readily available and inexpensive. Imp. Zipper equals the .225 and uses the common .30-30 extractor.
A .224 R-C Maxi is a .222 rimmed made from necked down .357 Max case. I would have to look it up but have info about cutting this type chamber using a std .223 reamer then making the rim cut with lathe tool. Cartridges of the World shows 3200 fps with 55 gr bullet.  {Quote}

 
That could well be.  Dies for the Improved is what stopped me, that and a reamer.  A 225 reamer was available to me and dies were cheap and easy to get.
 
 
Cat

[broom_jm]

Everywhere that has 5.6x50R wants a small fortune for it.  Considering the flexibility of a cartridge with a larger case capacity, the price of brass, and availability of dies I think I've my answer: 225 Win.
Especially considering that if available brass goes the way of the dodo I would still be able to put together SOMETHING for it with other available brass.

Yep, the old 225 Win is what you're looking for, all things considered.  It's a 223R +P+, using very strong, but affordable AND readily available brass, reamers and dies are easily found, pressures are just right for an SB2 frame and if you want to load it down for plinking, that is easily accomplished with H4895.  It headspaces on the shoulder, 223 chamber will be cleaned up and (hopefully) better than factory, the semi-rimmed design allows sufficient extraction and it will give a 22-250 a run for its money in velocity and accuracy.  It's not a wildcat, but it's an old, obscure, obsolescent round with just enough mystery and novelty to make it "cool"!   

Frankly, the 225 Winchester is one of the best cartridges that never became popular or successful.  It only failed because it was introduced at the same time the 22-250 was standardized, AND when the Model 70 was (in many minds) ruined.  Had it avoided either of those events, I'm confident in saying it would be a much more commonly used cartridge, today.    :twocents: