Either 243 or 7mm08 Axis

[Jim Thomas]

 I cant decide which one to get for my wife and son to start out with.I shoot a 308 handi myself and thats a little too much recoil for them.I have killed alot of deer with a 243 but Ive heard so many positive  reports on the 7mmo8 . any feedback wiil be appreciated .                                                                                                                                                       Thank You                                       

[cjclemens]

Never shot a 7mm08, but I can tell you that .243 is one of my favorite cartridges.  Recoil is mild and the 87-100 grain bullets kill like Thor's hammer.

[LanceR]

Assuming you are picking bullets with similar sectional densities then you won't see much drop in recoil between the .308 and the 7mm-08.  Likely it will be around 12-15%.  Going to the .243 will see a drop of closer to 30% when compared to the .308.

You don't mention whether you reload, what weight bullets you've been using for yourself or what weight bullets your son was shooting but changing bullet weights or loading reduced loads could be just the ticket.

If you've been shooting 150 grain .308 loads and switch to a 125 grain bullet at similar velocity you will net around a 30% drop in recoil while retaining shooting a proven deer getter that is going to be effective to 200 yards or more.

Another option would be a reduced load using Hodgdon H4895 if you are loading any of the cartridges.  If you look at the Hodgdon homepage you'll see a link to reduced loads.  The specific loads they use as examples are all good deer loads out to 200 yards or more and have significantly less recoil than full power loads with heavier bullets.

There is a good article on developing reduced loads with H4895 at  http://www.chuckhawks.com/reduced_recoil_H4895.htm

H4895 is a great reduced load powder and for practice loads it can be safely loaded down to 60% of the maximum charge for any listed cartridge.  That info is on the Hodgdon reduced load page, too.

If you don't reload you could go with the 7mm-08 and Remington Managed Recoil loads in .308 or 7mm-08.

Lance

[44 Man]

Jim, I can't say what the percentage is, but I can tell you that my 7-08 Handi kicks right up there with the .308, even considering that my particular Handi is heavy with a lamanated stock.  My friend who's wife is learning to shoot and hunt has shot the .243 and likes it a lot and has not noticed the recoil at all (Youth Ruger bolt action).  I load down the 7-08 for whitetail with a soft load of H4895 and Nos BT 120's, and it still kicks more than I'd want to start a youngster with.   I like my 7-08 but I'd go with the .243, it's never a bad choice.  It will do much more than you expect, and it's fun to shoot besides.  44 Man
PS, I like the Axis also.  Thinking of one for myself.....

[44 Man]

Well, I took a step in that direction yesterday.  I was in my favoriet gun shop (Jay's in Clare, MI) and saw a discontued youth model 11 in 7-08 with a muzzle brake.  This brake can be opened or closed.  Having used a muzzle brake before I can tell you that it really does work!  I think another gun like mine would be a good choice.  Being a discontinued model, you won't find it on the website but you should be able to locate one.  You could use the muzzle brake to train him on moderate loads (just be sure everyone is wearing ear protection because it re-directs more noise to the sides) then give him full loads and close the brake for hunting.  You know that when hunting, you never feel the recoil when the gun goes off.  This gun has a synthetic stock and a hard butt pad.  I'm going to put a soft recoil pad on mine.  The gun has a 13" length of pull as offered and that should work fine for him.  If you can locate one in your area, you might ask the dealer if you can shoot it.  Buy a box of managed recoil ammo and have him try it.  If he doesn't care for it, then go to the .243.  44 Man

[Huntsman1]

I chose the .243 for my Axis decision. I based it on versatility. Deer/Coyote round. 
As well as the mild recoil it produces compared to my .308s. i just picked up a 111 in .300WM too for the big stuff but with what the Axis has to offer I will definitely be picking up another one!

[fullup3]

I own a couple of .243's and love them.   you can load 55 grain bullets to 4000fps for varmints, or 115 grain bullets for 1000yd long range shooting.   Check out this video of an elk dropped at 688yds using a .243 with a berger 105vld bullet.  They can just about do it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18
   And someone mentioned that the recoil is much less with the .243.   It kicks very, very little.   My daughter is 7yrs old and 55lbs and shoots a .243 for a deer rifle.   

[BBF]

Any one using a 243 or whatever short of a 338 Lapuna sniper rifle to shoot an elk or moose at those ridiculous ranges is an unethical hunter IMO.
 
I've seen those Best of the West videos and consider them an advertisement from an unscrupulous businessman.
 
 
I have an Axis in 308 Win and loading it down to 30-30 energy with a 150 gr 30-30 bullet has very little free recoil.

[26-t]

  7-08!!!

[BBF]

I took the Axis to the Range after a long summer of no shooting. One of the things that surprised me was the trigger pull on the Axis. I've had a Stevens before and you could diddle a bit with the setting, not so on the Axis and it is a heavier pull than the Stevens.

[TNBilly]

It's pretty easy to lighten the pull on the axis, simple as installing a lighter spring.  I know some clip the original but I prefer to save the original in case i want to put it back.  You can usually find a ball point pin spring that'll work in this case.

Ron

I took the Axis to the Range after a long summer of no shooting. One of the things that surprised me was the trigger pull on the Axis. I've had a Stevens before and you could diddle a bit with the setting, not so on the Axis and it is a heavier pull than the Stevens.

[Ranch13]

As much as I've used and admire the 243, I'ld recommend the 708. It's ballistically the same as the 7x57 and the recoil on that one is pretty mild and the killing ability is way  up there.

[FPH]

I own a couple of .243's and love them.   you can load 55 grain bullets to 4000fps for varmints, or 115 grain bullets for 1000yd long range shooting.   Check out this video of an elk dropped at 688yds using a .243 with a berger 105vld bullet.  They can just about do it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18
   And someone mentioned that the recoil is much less with the .243.   It kicks very, very little.   My daughter is 7yrs old and 55lbs and shoots a .243 for a deer rifle.   

1000 yd shots are BS.........I grew up in the flat plains where long shots are common and 600 meters is about as far as I go even with a .300 Weatherby.  Anyone tasking a 1000 yd shot with a .243 is an irresonable bragart and idiot.

[fullup3]

I own a couple of .243's and love them.   you can load 55 grain bullets to 4000fps for varmints, or 115 grain bullets for 1000yd long range shooting.   Check out this video of an elk dropped at 688yds using a .243 with a berger 105vld bullet.  They can just about do it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18
   And someone mentioned that the recoil is much less with the .243.   It kicks very, very little.   My daughter is 7yrs old and 55lbs and shoots a .243 for a deer rifle.   

1000 yd shots are BS.........I grew up in the flat plains where long shots are common and 600 meters is about as far as I go even with a .300 Weatherby.  Anyone tasking a 1000 yd shot with a .243 is an irresonable bragart and idiot.

 
the shot on the video is 688yds....a long way from 1000ys.  I do not advocate anyone doing this, just merely posted the video to show that the .243 can kill big game and at good distances.   

[FPH]

I own a couple of .243's and love them.   you can load 55 grain bullets to 4000fps for varmints, or 115 grain bullets for 1000yd long range shooting.   Check out this video of an elk dropped at 688yds using a .243 with a Berger 105Vlad bullet.  They can just about do it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18
   And someone mentioned that the recoil is much less with the .243.   It kicks very, very little.   My daughter is 7yrs old and 55lbs and shoots a .243 for a deer rifle.   

1000 yd shots are BS.........I grew up in the flat plains where long shots are common and 600 meters is about as far as I go even with a .300 Weatherby.  Anyone tasking a 1000 yd shot with a .243 is an irresponsible bragart and idiot.

 
the shot on the video is 688yds....a long way from 1000ys.  I do not advocate anyone doing this, just merely posted the video to show that the .243 can kill big game and at good distances.   

688 yds with a .243 for Elk is irresponsible........how many wounded animals did it take to get that shot?  688 on paper is fun and doable, but not with a live animal and expect a one shot humane kill with any consistency..
 

[T.R.]

Remington's Managed Recoil ammo is an option to consider.
 
TR
 

[BBF]

As much as I've used and admire the 243, I'ld recommend the 708. It's ballistically the same as the 7x57 and the recoil on that one is pretty mild and the killing ability is way  up there.

Not so!
The factory loading of the 7-08 mm are much more potent than the 7x57.
 
I suppose you could download the 7-08mm to acceptable recoil level but what would be the point unless you expect to increase that level as the shooter gets bigger/older. 
If you are going to download the ammo you might as well go to the 308 Win to start with
 
For instance you could use the Rem,  30-30 150 gr Cor Lokt bullet that has lots of exposed soft lead and kick it out below 30-30 Win level and still have an adequate Deer round depending on Range requirement.
 
SR 4759 will give you from 1600 fps with 21.0 gr  to 1900  fps with 25.0 gr of that powder. The 1900 fps MV is similar what a standard 30-30 Win bullet has at 100 yards.
 
Downloading to 60% of H-4895 to 29.4 gr  as an example could be used on a 125 gr Sierra bullet.
 
For the same powder you could use as little as 27.3 gr to push a 150 gr bullet.
 
Since you use a 308 Win yourself and I presume you reload you can give this a trial run without a lot of expense. Make sure the stock fits the shooter!!

[fullup3]

I own a couple of .243's and love them.   you can load 55 grain bullets to 4000fps for varmints, or 115 grain bullets for 1000yd long range shooting.   Check out this video of an elk dropped at 688yds using a .243 with a Berger 105Vlad bullet.  They can just about do it all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hY0w1c-gf18
   And someone mentioned that the recoil is much less with the .243.   It kicks very, very little.   My daughter is 7yrs old and 55lbs and shoots a .243 for a deer rifle.   

1000 yd shots are BS.........I grew up in the flat plains where long shots are common and 600 meters is about as far as I go even with a .300 Weatherby.  Anyone tasking a 1000 yd shot with a .243 is an irresponsible bragart and idiot.

 
the shot on the video is 688yds....a long way from 1000ys.  I do not advocate anyone doing this, just merely posted the video to show that the .243 can kill big game and at good distances.   

688 yds with a .243 for Elk is irresponsible........how many wounded animals did it take to get that shot?  688 on paper is fun and doable, but not with a live animal and expect a one shot humane kill with any consistency..
 

maybe 4 or 5

[BBF]

IMO those vids are bogus. It wouldn't surprise me if there is a sniper somewhere shooting something a lot bigger than a 243 and probably much closer as well.
 
I don't have my ballistics program handy. It would be interesting to see how much energy that Berger bullet had left at that distance.

[Ranch13]

As much as I've used and admire the 243, I'ld recommend the 708. It's ballistically the same as the 7x57 and the recoil on that one is pretty mild and the killing ability is way  up there.

Not so!
The factory loading of the 7-08 mm are much more potent than the 7x57.
 
I suppose you could download the 7-08mm to acceptable recoil level but what would be the point unless you expect to increase that level as the shooter gets bigger/older. 
If you are going to download the ammo you might as well go to the 308 Win to start with
 
 

Without splitting real hairs, less than 200 fps is not exactly fitting into the "more potent" category. No need really to down load the 7mm08, as the recoil is not that bad.
I know a fella that runs a major gunshop, he says he makes the most money off selling lightweight 308's, ie Remington model 7 etc, to people getting their kid a hunting rifle. Says it's not uncommon to sell that same rifle at least twice, first time when it leaves the door brand new, second time after the adult brings it back , trades it in on a 708 ,260,257 or 243 that a kid can handle well, and then it sells again as a used rifle...

[Ranch13]

IMO those vids are bogus. It wouldn't surprise me if there is a sniper somewhere shooting something a lot bigger than a 243 and probably much closer as well.
 
I don't have my ballistics program handy. It would be interesting to see how much energy that Berger bullet had left at that distance.

Those videos by John Burns are about as real as they get. He specializes in building long range rifles, and he also runs numerous clinics on long range shooting. The scopes they use on those rifles a fine tuned instruments, combined with range finders that go way beyond the accuracy and quality of a Walmart super special...The ammo is purpose built handloads and not Armscorp discount special.
 
 

[Huffmanite]

Hmmmmm, own a 243 and a 7mm-08.  Recoil wise, yea the 7mm-08 has more recoil, but not enough more to be concerned about.   I'd prefer the 7mm-08 for deer  hunting over the 243.
 

[FPH]

IMO those vids are bogus. It wouldn't surprise me if there is a sniper somewhere shooting something a lot bigger than a 243 and probably much closer as well.
 
I don't have my ballistics program handy. It would be interesting to see how much energy that Berger bullet had left at that distance.

Those videos by John Burns are about as real as they get. He specializes in building long range rifles, and he also runs numerous clinics on long range shooting. The scopes they use on those rifles a fine tuned instruments, combined with range finders that go way beyond the accuracy and quality of a Walmart super special...The ammo is purpose built handloads and not Armscorp discount special.
 
 

Your example doesn't really apply to the OP's initial question concerning his wife.......you are citing a custom rifle, a extremely expensive scope, custom ammo and an extremely experienced shooter.  I bet the whole rig is upwards of 5 grand and not suitable for a typical hunt.  Heck I can make alot of calibers achieve those results with that expenditure......ad I like the 6mm by the way.  Just get real.

[Ranch13]

[


Your example doesn't really apply to the OP's initial question concerning his wife.......you are citing a custom rifle, a extremely expensive scope, custom ammo and an extremely experienced shooter.  I bet the whole rig is upwards of 5 grand and not suitable for a typical hunt.  Heck I can make alot of calibers achieve those results with that expenditure......ad I like the 6mm by the way.  Just get real.

You are correct, I was responding to someone elses post, and that's why I included the quotes.
 You might want to step back for a moment, as you have yet to address the OP's question, and have only seen fit to condemn someone elses opinion...
As you did address the cost of the Greybull precision rifle, I would urge you to look them up, and decide whether or not they are fit for a typical hunt. But I will also tell you those rifles have been the basis of 2 different Outdoor Channel hunting shows/series.
 As for getting real, I witnessed my dad many times use his model 70 sporter in 243, he purchased new in 1957 to cleanly drop elk and muledeer at ranges that surely would raise eyebrows.That rifle was equipped with only a Bushnell scopechief scope, and firing his reloads which consisted of a healthy dose of 4350 powder and the Hornady 100 gr bullet.
 But that has nothing to do with the OP's post, and I still stand by my original statement , that as much as I like the 243, I would favor the choice of the 7mm08 or the first timers rifle.
 Now what exactly was your choice?

[FPH]

My Elk medicine of choice is .300 Weatherby mag.  Muley  also.  I apoligize if I also went off subject and was overly critical.  I bet the scopes iIquestion are about $2000.00 a pop.  Am I wrong?  Their rifles?  How many Elk did your father wound in order to make kills with a .243?

[FPH]

Greybull rifle $ 6,000.00 I was low.

[FPH]

Weight 10 lbs.....hunting rifle?

[Ranch13]

My Elk medicine of choice is .300 Weatherby mag.  Muley  also.  I apoligize if I also went off subject and was overly critical.  I bet the scopes iIquestion are about $2000.00 a pop.  Am I wrong?  Their rifles?  How many Elk did your father wound in order to make kills with a .243?

He never lost a single elk to cripple loss. My  mother , also used a 243 with zero cripple loss. I used a 243 well into the 1970's , and never had a cripple loss until 1994, and that was with a cartridge and bullet that most internet elk hunters and gun magazine rifles almost make you believe the elk will not only be dead hog dressed and half processed by the time you can get to it.
Once in the late 1960's we had a fella from California in camp , I had shot a nice bull 3 times, and he had shot his bull 3 times. Both were dead recovered and hanging on the meat pole. He stated to me that the 243 was to small for elk hunting and that's why he used the 300 wby. I asked him which elk was deader his or mine? He gave me a funny look and the conversation just died there.
I have never priced those Greybull rifles or the scopes they use, that type of thing just don't interest me much, but you can surely use google to find them if you are interested.
 Now what exactly was your answer to the OP's question?

[Ranch13]

Weight 10 lbs.....hunting rifle?

Yup why not 10 lbs+, my uncles m70 he bought in 1947 and then glass bedded, and fitted with a pachmyr cheek piece weighs closer to 13 lbs.
Now what was your answer to the OP's question?

[FPH]

Weight 10 lbs.....hunting rifle?

Yup why not 10 lbs+, my uncles m70 he bought in 1947 and then glass bedded, and fitted with a pachmyr cheek piece weighs closer to 13 lbs.
Now what was your answer to the OP's question?
[/quote       10 lbs?  Must be one of those drive to a Bull let me set up on the hood and here is your $10,000. Not humppig that up to 12,00 ft.  Not me Oh, cost of the rifle?  $ 6,000.00, every man hunting rifle?  I would go with the .243 for the OP's question.