Author Topic: What cleaner to use on vintage Winchester stock? (Read 1845 times)

mannyrock · « **on:** March 19, 2012, 11:56:14 AM »

My neighbor has a Winchester bolt action made in 1925. The stock looks like it has never been refinished, and has about 95% of its original finish.

But, it is really grungy, both to the look and touch.

What's the best thing to use to clean the grime off of this stock down to the finish? I thought about Liquid Gold, but it has some chemicals in it and I worry that it may remove/dissolve finish.

I thought about Murphy's Soap Oil, but this is a vegetable oil, and I worry that it will soak down into the unfinished wood and never come out.

What do the pros use?

Thanks, Mannyrock

gunnut69 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2012, 01:20:36 PM »

I usually clean a stock with mineral spirits. It will disolve finish but most times the 'black' coloring is oxidized oils a combo of finish and hand oils from being handled. As these oxidize they darken..as do many lubricating oils. Some of these, such WD40 and 3-in-1, will actually harden into a varnish! Use lubrication oils sparingly and use non-hardening type oils such as Remoil or automotive ATF..

Swampman · « **Reply #2 on:** March 19, 2012, 01:20:42 PM »

I'd use low odor Mineral Spirits.

fastchicken · « **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2012, 03:38:52 PM »

Goo Gone, citrus based, has worked good for me

Frank46 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 19, 2012, 05:01:27 PM »

Gotta guess here but acetone or low odor mineral spirits. Sounds like a winchester model 54??. Frank

Bigeasy · « **Reply #5 on:** March 19, 2012, 06:52:06 PM »

Manny

I would use caution with mineral spirits, or any other product that may damage / remove the original finish. No matter how dirty it is, a 1920's Winchester with 95% of its original wood finish would probably strongly appeal to a serious collector who wants and values the original finish and patina.

Now if its just to clean it up and keep it as a user with no intention of future sales / value, then a strong cleaning / refinish may be in order.

Larry

gunnut69 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 19, 2012, 07:14:49 PM »

I ould steer clear of acetone as it's too gressive.. Mineral spirits won't cause damage unless allowed too long to work. The finish will certainly require a coating of wax as was there from the factory. The wax is the protection as varnish is just water resistant and will be damaged by the water. If one has a stock as crudded up as the description led us to believe the amount of remaining finish would be truly difficult to guage until thoroughly cleaned. The biggest danger to varnish finishes is hand oil and gun oil applied indescriminately. I would carefully clean the stock with a rag soaked in mineral spirits and allow it to dry completely, perhaps a couple of days.. Then a very light application or TruOil if needed and when cured a protective wax coat, I use JohnsonsPaste floor wa with carnuba and buff lightly.. If there is enough varnish left all that's needed is the wax..

sr sawyer · « **Reply #7 on:** March 19, 2012, 07:30:46 PM »

Birchwood Casey makes a product called Stock Sheen and Conditioner that does a good job of cleaning old stocks without removing the finish. The finish must however be hard and not soften from oils that soaked under the finish and thus destroyed it from below. Most anything used, even soap and water, on a softened finish can remove it.

Mineral spirits works fair but you should use sparingly. Under no circumstances do you want to use acetone or lacquer thinner as these will damage or even remove the good finish.

saddlebum · « **Reply #8 on:** March 19, 2012, 08:16:41 PM »

Quote from: sr sawyer on March 19, 2012, 07:30:46 PM

Birchwood Casey makes a product called Stock Sheen and Conditioner that does a good job of cleaning old stocks without removing the finish. The finish must however be hard and not soften from oils that soaked under the finish and thus destroyed it from below. Most anything used, even soap and water, on a softened finish can remove it.

Mineral spirits works fair but you should use sparingly. Under no circumstances do you want to use acetone or lacquer thinner as these will damage or even remove the good finish.

+1 on the BC Stock Sheen. It has a very mild abrasive for polishing stock finishes. So you don't want to bear down on one spot too hard to get a grimey spot, or you might get a bad spot in the finish. I bought a 'take off' M-70 walnut stock awhile back. It was virtually a new stock, but it was really grungy from long term storage in a dirty place. Stock Sheen did the trick and buffed out the satin finish on the wood real nice. I have been using SS for alot of years to spruce up gun wood and other stuff.

Rangr44 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2012, 04:03:50 AM »

HOWARD'S FEED 'N WAX - available at most home improvement centers like HomeCheapo & NHD stores, sold in a plastic bottle. Read/follow the directions.

I certainly would stay FAR away from any sort of mineral spirits or other solvent, as they would surely damage the remaining finish (remove it, actually).

.

Swampman · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2012, 04:35:25 AM »

All that stuff will just make a gummy mess more gummy. Low odor mineral spirits is the way to go.

oldandslow · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2012, 05:30:40 AM »

Ordinary rubbing alcohol is my go to cleaner to remove gunk from a surface that you don't want to damage. I just rescued an old J. C. Higgins/Marlin .22LR that was nasty, both metal and wood. Alcohol, a soft cloth, and wax to finish it off and it's looking nice.

gunnut69 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2012, 06:28:02 AM »

Be aware that alchohol is the solvent that will litterally disolve lacquer finishes which many older weapons and even some cheaper guns today use. Also alchohol contains water and varnished surfaces really don't like water. If allowed to sit you can get staining much like the ring a glass can leave of the coffe table.. Any cleaning will remove some finish, we want to contain that to only the damaged and altere layers.. Mineral spirits have always worked best for me..but whatever you use, do it with caution and go lightly..

saddlebum · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2012, 08:13:42 AM »

Yea, whatever you do, don't use anything that was specifically formulated to clean and condition wood and wood finishes. That would make too much sense. I clean stuff with carburetor cleaner from an aerosol can. It works real good!!.....Try that!

Swampman · « **Reply #14 on:** March 20, 2012, 08:37:12 AM »

The BC Stock Sheen and Conditioner is just silicone wax with pumice mixed in. It won't take off old ruined finish.

saddlebum · « **Reply #15 on:** March 20, 2012, 08:58:54 AM »

Quote from: mannyrock on March 19, 2012, 11:56:14 AM

But, it is really grungy, both to the look and touch.

What's the best thing to use to clean the grime off of this stock down to the finish? I thought about Liquid Gold, but it has some chemicals in it and I worry that it may remove/dissolve finish.

Do you ever get tired of being wrong, Swampy? The OP says nothing about removing "old ruined finish". And your made up recipe for Stock Sheen is also wrong. It must be lonely out there on, my way or the highway...............

mannyrock · « **Reply #16 on:** March 20, 2012, 09:27:41 AM »

Dear Guys,

Thanks for all of the great advice. I guess I will have to review and sift.

This is a Winchester Model 54. Unfortunately, as a pure collector's piece, I think the value of this rifle is ruined. Someone back in the 1920s drilled and tapped the front of the receiver, and two holes in the barrel, to mount a strange looking base mount. I think that these rifles had a high bolt handle, and you couldn't mount a scope on them over the receiver unless you had the bolt handled cut and rewelded.

The stock was also cut for a recoil pad.

Still, with so much original finish on the stock, it would be ashamed to remove any more. These stocks were gorgeous from the factory, with a schnauble forend and hand cut checkering. Much more sleek and refined than the later "clubby" stocks of the Winchester Model 70.

I have seen pad-cut stocks like this for a pre-64 Model 70 go for two hundred and more, with the hardware. So, you like to preserve what is there.

Thanks, Mannyrock

saddlebum · « **Reply #17 on:** March 20, 2012, 09:43:25 AM »

I agree, mannyrock, M-54s are neat old rifles. I am not an expert, but all of the ones I've seen only have iron sights and peeps. Still very useful. All of the sighting alterations I've seen were to customize the irons. Sometimes it's painful to see where someone has chopped up a gun for some weird scope mount.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #18 on:** March 20, 2012, 09:49:22 AM »

I would try OLD ENGLISH furniture polish. use a soft tooth brush to get into tight places . Doit it aecond or third time with a soft cloth . If you can remove it from the action to clean and polish. OE has nothing to hurt a stock that I know of. If that dosen't suit you then the more radical methods can be tried.

Swampman · « **Reply #19 on:** March 20, 2012, 02:15:51 PM »

The Old English will get all over everything the rifle touches for the next 10 years. Ask me how I know....

trotterlg · « **Reply #20 on:** March 20, 2012, 03:55:16 PM »

If you are going to clean it up think about what they had to clean it with when it was built. Don't think it was any thing special, listen to Swampman, mineral sprits will be the way to go. Try a little on a small spot, bet it works perfect. Larry

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2012, 01:15:31 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on March 20, 2012, 02:15:51 PM

The Old English will get all over everything the rifle touches for the next 10 years. Ask me how I know....

you know because you didn't follow instructions and polish and wipe excess off! I use it on all wood and never have it be a problem later .

gunnut69 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2012, 05:53:55 AM »

Gentlemen please keep this civil! Carbcleaner is mostly acetone and it's used warned against.. The stock sheen and conditioner is not a cleaner of the degree needed per the description but I suppose if you were persistant it would work although the wax in the production might get a bit built up.. OldEnglish I've never used on a gun stock but the wife uses it to leave a flim on her kitchen cabinets... Just try the mineral spirits lightly and don't apply too much or let what you do apply set too long. The grung will be removed and the finish can then be freshened as needed. The 54 you have is the first style stock. The later more rounded less european style was introduced before the changes were made that were the M70. The barrel and front ring mount were for externally adjusted scopes. The front ring may well have been drilled at the factory.. Ther e were even mounts available that utilized the front ring holes and the receiver sight mounting holes on the side of the rear ring. Remember that whatever you do to the finish is going to alter the finish on the rifle..as what you look at as grung is just the accumulation of the years..and it HAS already changed the finish to soome degree.. I've a couple of 54's, a 250-3000 in the early slow lock and snauble stock and a 22 Hornet with the later clasic style stock and the speed lock changes..

BUGEYE · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2012, 06:12:25 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on March 20, 2012, 09:49:22 AM

I would try OLD ENGLISH furniture polish. use a soft tooth brush to get into tight places . Doit it aecond or third time with a soft cloth . If you can remove it from the action to clean and polish. OE has nothing to hurt a stock that I know of. If that dosen't suit you then the more radical methods can be tried.

A friend brought me a 11-87 that was filthy. washed the stock with soap and warm water, let dry for 24hrs and rubbed it with "old english" for dark wood, beautiful stock now.

saddlebum · « **Reply #24 on:** March 21, 2012, 06:55:22 AM »

Quote from: gunnut69 on March 21, 2012, 05:53:55 AM

Gentlemen please keep this civil! Carbcleaner is mostly acetone and it's used warned against.. The stock sheen and conditioner is not a cleaner of the degree needed per the description but I suppose if you were persistant it would work although the wax in the production might get a bit built up..

I can't believe you actually took my sarcastic remarks about using carburator cleaner seriously. I was joking on people that suggest using patroleum based grease and oil solvents intended for use on metal, on a wood finish that is to be preserved. I guess there is just no way that I can be too careful what I post on this forum.

There is no "wax buildup" when using the Stock Sheen product since it contains no "wax''. If anyone giving this evaluation of the product had ever actually used the product much, they would know that. Can't believe I'm even involved in this ridiculous back and forth. I need to get a life!

I feel dumber just from reading this thread.................

swifty22 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 21, 2012, 09:19:14 AM »

Mannyrock. I would ONLY use hot water and dishwashing liquid and let it dry. The reason is that probably most of the stuff on the stock (sweat, dirt ect) is soluble in that. Please don't use any type of commercial self drying solvent until you have used soap, hot water and let it dry-Muddy

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #26 on:** March 21, 2012, 09:30:26 AM »

I would only use old english as water can raise the grain if the wood is not sealed.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #27 on:** March 21, 2012, 09:58:20 AM »

I have had some good results with the Homer Formby's furniture polish. The hunk of finnished wood is often called the furniture. It is finnished like old furniture and using furniture cleaner on polish makes the most sense to me.
I tape the barrels and action and clean and oil (often with lemon oil) peal the tape and let the lemon or orange oil dry.
Then will wipe the whole gun down with T-9 Spray wax.

mannyrock · « **Reply #28 on:** March 21, 2012, 11:10:55 AM »

Wow Guys,

Thanks again. What a can of worms.

The original Winchester stocks have a distinctive red hue, which is difficult to reproduce, so for that reason I would not try the Old English brown colored cleaner. If it hits any wood where the finish is worn through, it will dye the wood brown.

One thing I have used on old furniture is Old English pure Lemon Oil. It is a very light oil, and its citrus really does cut through grime. The oil that hits bare wood does not seem to change the color, and it is so thin that it seems to evaporate in a few days.

Unfortunately, the current patina/grime of the stock is sticky, and leaves your hands stinky, so it has to be cleaned.

I think I will go with lemon oil first, very sparingly, and then go upwards to more powerful things in stages, if necessary, from there.

Best, Mannyrock

gunnut69 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 21, 2012, 01:48:24 PM »

Mannyrock let us know how this turns out..pics would be good.. Saddlebum--might I suggest you stop reading in that case, you've lost enough!!