Author Topic: Zombie Max ammo a Lawyer magnet? (Read 5915 times)

trotterlg · « **on:** March 20, 2012, 01:16:41 PM »

Anyone else think that carrying Hornady Zombie Max ammo may be a bad plan? The thought of a Lawyer passing around a box of ammo that looks like this one would give me a bad feeling if I were the one on trial for using it. Larry

Spirithawk · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2012, 04:34:48 PM »

The point of carrying is to defend yourself. The point of defending yourself is to be able to decisivly stop any threat. You don't carry a pellet gun to do that, for obvious reasons, so why should an ammo designed to stop a human threat quickly without over pentration, and therefore the risk to bystanders, be seen as something you shouldn't use? It would most likely be seen as bad by those who see carrying a gun as bad. I'd rather be alive to expain it to them than dead, having been unable to quickly stop an attack because I was undergunned, which includes using a poor choice of ammo. To me it makes as much sense to say your ammo is too deadly as it would to say your choice of firearm or caliber is too deadly.

trotterlg · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2012, 05:27:49 PM »

I was thinking more on the line of what the thought process was of a person who would be attracted to buying ammo that was marketed this way. Larry

quasne.inc · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2012, 05:43:46 PM »

Well it's the exact same thing as their critical defense just with a green plug. Which is why I want some, cause my favorite color is green.

timothy · « **Reply #4 on:** March 21, 2012, 03:56:06 AM »

Its funny how somethings are ahead of their time because people arent ready for them yet. Today winchesters black talon wouldnt even warrant a second glance yet at the time it scared winchester enough to drop it. I guess we're ready now?

drdougrx · « **Reply #5 on:** March 21, 2012, 04:19:43 AM »

I think a mediocre lawyer could easily make the case that carrying Zombie Defense ammo was a manifestation of an irrational fear and the over riding proclivity to want to shoot things (will refer to the zombie movies). I see it as a PR issue. It is marketed as a fantasy brand and fantasy has no place where guns are concerned....an easy set of dots to connect in a shooting much like the cop killer bullet craze (winchester black talons) which were and are still legal but with a negative stigma attached.

The difference with critical defense ammo is the way it is marketed, as a last ditch defensive ammunition. I think ones best bet if one wishes to carry is to carry what law enforcement carry...so that when asked...your response is that I carry what the police carry...they are the experts on these things. At that point your lawyer will bring in police experts to testify the merits of the ammunition, not your possible motives for carrying it.

drdougrx · « **Reply #6 on:** March 21, 2012, 04:23:51 AM »

BTW...if I were a lawyer and my client was shot with Black Talons...I'd surely make an issue of it with an uneducated jury. After all, why would any reasonable person carry this overly deadly ammunition that was removed from the market by its own manufacturer?

?

Really...I could have a great deal of fun with this If I were a lawyer and in this situation...I'd at least cast a shadow of doubt on your judegment.

timothy · « **Reply #7 on:** March 21, 2012, 04:33:28 AM »

If you really wanted to be mean you could make an issue of winchesters sxt by saying they changed the name. LOL!

Blue Duck · « **Reply #8 on:** March 21, 2012, 05:58:25 AM »

"Overly deadly" Interesting term. Meaningless but interesting. How does that load compare with a load of 00 buck at 15 feet.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #9 on:** March 21, 2012, 06:11:23 AM »

Quote from: drdougrx on March 21, 2012, 04:23:51 AM

BTW...if I were a lawyer and my client was shot with Black Talons...I'd surely make an issue of it with an uneducated jury. After all, why would any reasonable person carry this overly deadly ammunition that was removed from the market by its own manufacturer? ?

Really...I could have a great deal of fun with this If I were a lawyer and in this situation...I'd at least cast a shadow of doubt on your judegment.

"Over Deadly"? Gee, then that argument could be used as to, " Why do you carry a .45 when a .22 would do? " I mean if you carry a larger caliber you surely must be intending to kill somebody right? Makes just as much sense as to bashing a legal cartridge. My argument would be simple, " If it wasn't legal I wouldn't be using it, but it is legal so I do! Sooooo, are you going to convict me on your personal opinion or are you going to stick to the law? "

drdougrx · « **Reply #10 on:** March 21, 2012, 06:50:54 AM »

You are right but it is about misguided perception....for example....the news will report that so and so was killed with a "High Powered Rifle" or "a semi automatic rifle" like a 10/22 or that hundreds of rounds of ammunition was found in the person's residence (a brick of 22's).

This matters at a trial...remember...it isn't about what's the truth..only about what makes the case. The case of which caliber is only made when there's a "High Capacity magazine" as in the shooter's gun had a high capacity magazine...did he expect to be going to war?

Not, that's how the gun is currently sold by the manufacturer....that's your attny's job....

I generally feel it isn't about the law if the firearm is legal...I think it is about that big ameoba called "justice" .

BTW...Winchester STX isn't the same as the Balck Talon...they have been changed where they don't have that dangerous black coating....so they are different!

...and...FWIW ... I use Ranger Ts.

I think my point in all of this is not to stand out and be exotic. You won't need to convince me or fellows like us cause we won't ever make your jury.......

quasne.inc · « **Reply #11 on:** March 21, 2012, 11:49:31 AM »

I completely agree that there are many ignorant people out there who believe whatever they are told by gun haters. Luckily for me, I am more likely to have to use my gun against a skunk than a person.

timothy · « **Reply #12 on:** March 21, 2012, 03:24:59 PM »

A jury of my peers scares me a heck of a lot more than any criminal or zombie.

drdougrx · « **Reply #13 on:** March 22, 2012, 03:30:21 AM »

+1 Tim....not much chance there will be many "peers" on one of our juries.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2012, 08:39:45 AM »

For myself I'd rather be alive to be tried by a jury than dead. I chose my firearms to be the most effective for my needs. I choose my ammo the same.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2012, 09:26:04 AM »

best advice is use the ammo the police in your area use if possible if you are worried about it or burn the box

.

drdougrx · « **Reply #16 on:** March 22, 2012, 01:44:24 PM »

I understand Spirit and respect your decision. I figure that if the nasty happened...and I pray it never does....I suspect surviving the shooting is only the 1st step.

Airsporter · « **Reply #17 on:** March 22, 2012, 02:37:53 PM »

Winchester "Black Talon" was rebadged as "Ranger." I've been stocking up on this:

"This is 9mm Winchester Ranger Talon 127gr. +P+ Hollow Point Ammo. This ammo contains the 3rd generation of the Black Talon bullet. It is basically the same bullet as the original Black Talon, except for that it is not black, which was a Lubaloy coating."

drdougrx · « **Reply #18 on:** March 22, 2012, 02:40:42 PM »

This is a great SD load...well respected. I'm using the 124gr+p because all of my practice loads match it in bullet weight, velocity and accuracy.

Spirithawk · « **Reply #19 on:** March 22, 2012, 03:23:27 PM »

What I carry in my PF-9 is Hornady Custom 124 gr JHP/XTP's. They work great in my Kel Tec and I trust Hornady's quallity.

kynardsj · « **Reply #20 on:** March 22, 2012, 03:34:23 PM »

Only factory ammo I shoot is shotgun and 22's, I just like rolling my own. These may be great stuff but reminds me too much of all these silly movies and video games. And I too agree with Spirithawk, it's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

Dand · « **Reply #21 on:** April 01, 2012, 10:57:42 PM »

I couldn't believe Hornady would use such stupid marketing. I'm more worried it will prove to the anti gun folks that we're a bunch of crack pots and makes us vulnerable to the middle roaders who haven't decided yet. I will avoid buying this stuff just on the name only. Sad thing too because its probably good ammo but c'mon big H is it worth the bad press etc to follow the current -STUPID - zombie fad?

Spirithawk · « **Reply #22 on:** April 02, 2012, 11:43:59 AM »

Quote from: Dand on April 01, 2012, 10:57:42 PM

I couldn't believe Hornady would use such stupid marketing. I'm more worried it will prove to the anti gun folks that we're a bunch of crack pots and makes us vulnerable to the middle roaders who haven't decided yet. I will avoid buying this stuff just on the name only. Sad thing too because its probably good ammo but c'mon big H is it worth the bad press etc to follow the current -STUPID - zombie fad?

I agree it's not my idea of good marketing but there are those who will eat it up. They'll buy them simply for the box itself more than what's inside the box. I wouldn't worry too much about anti gun folks thinking it makes us look like crack pots. First off, they're the same folks that buy gorey blood and guts zombie killing video games for their kids and send them off to their rooms to play them using the games as babysitters. Same folks who can't understand why their good kids go off the deep end and resort to violence when things don't go their way in school. Besides, since when do they realy need an excuse to criticize us? They do that just fine using their imaginations and making things up to fit their parinora. As I've already said, when it comes to self defense ammo I look at it like this. I gave great thought and research choosing the caliber, type of weapon, manufactuer, and model firearms I carry. I chose them to effectively be able to protect myself. So why would I cut myself short, tie my hands, and choose a minimal cartridge because I feared judgement for sellecting the most efficient LEGAL cartidge available to me? Why? Certainly not going to for the sake of putting smiles on the faces of smug anti gun peons! I'm afraid if I were asked by an attorney why I used a legal cartridge I'd ask him, " If it's legal, effective above others as a self defense round, why wouldn't I use it? I plea common sense!"

dougk · « **Reply #23 on:** April 04, 2012, 04:50:08 PM »

Quote from: trotterlg on March 20, 2012, 01:16:41 PM

Anyone else think that carrying Hornady Zombie Max ammo may be a bad plan? The thought of a Lawyer passing around a box of ammo that looks like this one would give me a bad feeling if I were the one on trial for using it. Larry

Personally I think it is silly. But rather interesting marketing strategy. I wonder is this is something we will laugh about in 20 years.

drdougrx · « **Reply #24 on:** April 05, 2012, 03:55:01 AM »

I wonder if I should buy a few boxes and sit on them. May have some collector value!

Mikey · « **Reply #25 on:** April 06, 2012, 01:03:22 AM »

Doug: that's what I was thinking too....

drdougrx · « **Reply #26 on:** April 06, 2012, 03:11:26 AM »

Mikey!!! Up for a September Zombie Hog hunt???

Mikey · « **Reply #27 on:** April 07, 2012, 03:24:15 AM »

Hey Doug: Sounds good, but only if I can use my 300 gn 444 Zombie Splatter rounds............ do I get a t-shirt with those?

drdougrx · « **Reply #28 on:** April 07, 2012, 04:20:13 AM »

I'm sure we can arrange one!

Brett · « **Reply #29 on:** April 07, 2012, 05:29:48 AM »

I wouldn't worry too much about anti gun folks thinking it makes us look like crack pots either, just the fact that we own/carry guns is enough to get them all in a tither.

Either the use of a gun is justified or it is unjustified period. The type of gun, the ammo or any packaging/advertising associated with it or the ammo is a moot point and any defense layer worth his salt will be quick to point that out.