Author Topic: Button bucks (Read 2396 times)

DANNY-L · « **on:** March 22, 2012, 10:42:46 AM »

Just read in ny outdoor news that 19,793 button bucks were taken this past hunting season. I can understand people misjudging size but this is crazy. Some people must be desperate.

bobg · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2012, 11:29:42 PM »

Why would you think it desperate?

I have killed one button buck. Believe me at 60 yards running wide open i had no idea it had buttons until it was on the ground and i walked up to it. The buttons were even with the hair. You sure can't see them.

hillbill · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2012, 01:06:55 AM »

ive killed several button bucks that even at 25 yrds with a scope you would not of been able to see the buttons. they sure were tasty!

DANNY-L · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2012, 01:21:39 AM »

Your situation is what I ment by misjudging the size which happens when they are alone or running through the woods,but it sounds like there must be quite a few that look at it as just a deer not careing what it is. I have done the same thing as you have described but if I had known I wouldn't have fired a shot which I think some feel the same way but with numbers that high seems alot of hunters aim for the fawn.

LanceR · « **Reply #4 on:** March 26, 2012, 02:15:25 AM »

Danny, I suspect that you would be pretty cranky of someone told you how to pick what deer you shoot. Each of us buys a tag and each of us gets to pick how to fill it.

Lance

52bagman · « **Reply #5 on:** March 26, 2012, 02:29:03 AM »

From what I've read button bucks don't stay in the area they are raised in, the doe runs them off and they will go 3-7 miles away. Natures way to prevent inbreeding. So if you want to keep buttons on your property , shoot the doe of the buttons. Seems to be working at my back 40.

DANNY-L · « **Reply #6 on:** March 26, 2012, 10:14:33 AM »

Must be the difference between n.zone and s.zone we don't get as much for tags up here so hunters are a bit more picky as to what they shoot. Fawns don't go to far when ya package it up. Most hunters here will not tell ya they shot a fawn by mistake and I don't even know anyone that would intentionally shoot one.

hillbill · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2012, 01:24:46 PM »

i have often picked out a obviously smaller deer out a group and tagged them. i prefer the smaller, younger deer for eating.also a adult deer has a much higher chance of surviving a bad winter than does a young of the year deer. the buttons mama will likely produce another 1, possibly 2 fawns next year. whereas the button will produce nothing..thats just my opinion.

Mikey · « **Reply #8 on:** March 27, 2012, 01:37:21 AM »

I will agree that it is difficult for many to tell the differneces between buttons and smaller doe, especially when there aren't any other whitetail around to help compare sizes but the group I hunt with has always felt that we should leave the smaller ones for the following year and also feel that if the mature doe is taken the younger ones will have a better chance of surviving the winter.
But poachers out in my neck of the woods like buttons because they are easy to deal with. They shoot them and then leave them until they feel nothing else will come along; the smaller buttons are easier to move. I do not tolerate poachers and deal with them very harshly, especially if there is a dead button on the ground within their shooting distance. I actually had one idiot tell me that the still steaming button on the ground 10 yds from his stand was not shot by his still smoking shotgun with the empty hull on the ground beneath the stand he was in.
I hope nobody here has ever fallen from their tree stand or tripod stand and that whenever possible you wear a safety harness, just in case some property owner doesn't believe your story about being on his land and knocks your tree stand out from beneath you. Your safety harness will prevent falls and the resultant broken legs or a broken back and although you may drop your shotgun or rifle and bust it up badly, and look pretty silly hanging there in your harness until some EnCon Officers come to take you away, at least you don't have to worry about hospital bills and a permantly crippling injury, in addition to your fines for trespassing and poaching, loss of fiream, loss of vehicle and loss of hunting license.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #9 on:** March 27, 2012, 01:59:50 AM »

New York must be a wild place , I can't imagine the guy who just shot an illegal deer allowing someone to kick his stand out from under him

. As for shooting button bucks , if your state game department is worth having their plan for numbers of deer taken includes the taking of button bucks and seasons are set to accomplish their goals. Its all about the health of the herd not growing racks for hunters per se .

bubba · « **Reply #10 on:** March 28, 2012, 02:03:00 PM »

Probably over half of those who shot button bucks are the ones trying to get antler restrictions. I do not see any difference in shooting a button or a spike. You eliminated an immature buck. And Danny you are correct. There is a definite difference in northern zone hunting and southern zone hunting. That is why I do not go to the southern zone any more. Everyone complains that there are no deer and kill every young deer they see. Ummm that is the future of the herd.

DANNY-L · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2012, 01:18:31 AM »

Everyone complains that there are no deer and kill every young deer they see. Ummm that is the future of the herd.

Exactly what I'm talking about bubba.

hillbill · « **Reply #12 on:** March 29, 2012, 01:48:31 PM »

Quote from: DANNY-L on March 29, 2012, 01:18:31 AM

Everyone complains that there are no deer and kill every young deer they see. Ummm that is the future of the herd.

Exactly what I'm talking about bubba.

yuall should come to sw mo. at least here in my area we are plum covered up with the varmints! before season we were seeing a herd of bucks, maybe 6 or so about every day. and litterally dozens of does. 2 yrs ago my 15 yr old son shot the biggest deer id ever seen in the wild hereabouts. a few years ago we started a culling program where we shoot small deer, bucks with malformed or light antlers for their age and maybe 1 mature doe or two. 6, 8 or small 10 pts walk if they look like they got growth potentiol. we still need to shoot more does as the buck/doe ratio is prob 1 buck to 4 does or more. we now see more bigger well formed bucks and just more deer period. but a lot of it can be because of much more wheat and corn being planted in my immediate area. with the easy winter we have had and they way the wheat and barley is growing locally i look for every mature doe to have twins this year.

bobg · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2012, 11:30:43 PM »

Looks like a lot of folks think a button buck is small or a fawn. The one i shot weighed 110 pounds. The heavyest was a doe that went 140. The rest were all bucks and the average weight was 125. These were not guesses. They were ALL weighed.
I was hunting with a friend of mines son. He shot a fawn that weighed 35 pounds and still had spots. I was pissed.

I told him he had just lost any chance of hunting my property ever again.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #14 on:** March 30, 2012, 04:36:13 AM »

Quote from: DANNY-L on March 29, 2012, 01:18:31 AM

Everyone complains that there are no deer and kill every young deer they see. Ummm that is the future of the herd.

Exactly what I'm talking about bubba.

Come to Va. if ya want lots of deer and let yours rest. Like with hillbilly they become pest . Have you had 15-20 come by at a time ? Had a 4 pointer lay on my foot once while on a stand waiting for a larger rack.

bubba · « **Reply #15 on:** March 30, 2012, 06:59:01 AM »

Around my camp, I have plenty of deer. In the 2010 season I shot a nice 8 point weighed 197 pounds 2 days later. I attribute some of it to food plots even though we are in the middle of agricultural areas with lots of food available. I also attribute it to not shooting all the deer we see. We are a bit selective. Last season in the neighbors corn field, I saw a real monster. I am talking a saskatchewan looking buck. I called him to within 80 yards or so from the property line and he turned and walked away. I am gunning for him this fall. But my point is with some patience, you do not have to kill every deer that moves just to fill a tag. I also guess when I have a buck tag and an archery and ml tag, I can be more selective and not feel compelled to fill 5 or 6 tags for bragging rights. I guess I prefer quality to quantity.

DANNY-L · « **Reply #16 on:** March 30, 2012, 07:35:34 AM »

We are selective where I hunt to bubba (private land) we have had a 3pt on 1 side rule since 2000 meaning the young ones walk and learn and once they are big enough they are very smart,so it's a challenge. The only time the rule is broken is when one of the youngsters are old enough to get their license they are allowed 1 legally antlered deer. We have had a few so called mistakes happen where the deer only had 2pt on a side. Mistakes would cost the shooter $100 which was used towards taxes,food plots and such.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #17 on:** March 30, 2012, 08:23:31 AM »

Quote from: DANNY-L on March 30, 2012, 07:35:34 AM

We are selective where I hunt to bubba (private land) we have had a 3pt on 1 side rule since 2000 meaning the young ones walk and learn and once they are big enough they are very smart,so it's a challenge. The only time the rule is broken is when one of the youngsters are old enough to get their license they are allowed 1 legally antlered deer. We have had a few so called mistakes happen where the deer only had 2pt on a side. Mistakes would cost the shooter $100 which was used towards taxes,food plots and such.

Check out DEMAP , its a good way to insure nice bucks .

bubba · « **Reply #18 on:** March 30, 2012, 03:11:08 PM »

we dont fine, but the guy does not hear the end of it. And since I pay the taxes and it is by invite, he may not get invited back. We also have 250 acres with an extra 200 next door. Only 8 people hunt it and I will occasionally allow a few others. we also have the kid rule, and we do our best to get them in the places where the deer are. I would like to teach a hunter safety class at camp and take them out and see what it is about. Maybe someday.

Rock Home Isle · « **Reply #19 on:** March 30, 2012, 03:38:19 PM »

Quote from: DANNY-L on March 22, 2012, 10:42:46 AM

Just read in ny outdoor news that 19,793 button bucks were taken this past hunting season. I can understand people misjudging size but this is crazy. Some people must be desperate.

I've never taken a Button Buck...But I do I think that a lot of the hunters that take these little guys are out to get a Doe and take them by mistake.

I have always had a hard time telling the youngens from the old fat Does...My Dad and Uncles taught me how to hunt as a teenager and one of their primary rules when taking a meat Doe was to never never shoot a doe that was alone. You get a group of them together and it's quite easy to tell the yearlings from the mature Does... at least its worked for me.

hillbill · « **Reply #20 on:** March 31, 2012, 12:29:34 PM »

Quote from: bobg on March 29, 2012, 11:30:43 PM

Looks like a lot of folks think a button buck is small or a fawn. The one i shot weighed 110 pounds. The heavyest was a doe that went 140. The rest were all bucks and the average weight was 125. These were not guesses. They were ALL weighed.
I was hunting with a friend of mines son. He shot a fawn that weighed 35 pounds and still had spots. I was pissed. I told him he had just lost any chance of hunting my property ever again.

lol that reminds when my sisters bfren came down and hunted behind my house.i got home and he was back at his truck in my back yard. he said he just got a deer and was goin to drive down and git it. i said ill go with yu and help yu get it out. he said, no dude, i really dont need any help. i said, well dont matter i jus want to see it anyway. he literally carried it out like a big jackrabbit by its hind legs. i was roflmao. it didnt have spots on it so what the hell! he was a city boy and im glad he filled his tag.

Rock Home Isle · « **Reply #21 on:** March 31, 2012, 04:54:12 PM »

When I was about 18, my dad had me teach my younger brother how to hunt deer. I took him up into this ridge back and we sat down and glassed the area. We both had filled our buck tags and were now looking for Meat Does for our "B" tags. I was glassing one way and he was looking in the other direction.

We both said "HHHey Look at that Doe" at about the same time. So we both thought that we were looking at the same doe. It was a big doe so I told him to take her. At the shot the doe that I was watching looked around and the went back to feeding, my brother was so excited that his deer went down. In the end it was a tiny little fawn, back at camp he took a lot of ribbing...that was the last deer hunt that he went on.

I was such an idiot. I should have taken better care of my little brother's hunting experiences.

bubba · « **Reply #22 on:** April 20, 2012, 10:46:59 AM »

I had the pleasure of meeting and chatting with danny-l last evening. It is it see someone else who really gets it

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #23 on:** April 23, 2012, 01:43:38 AM »

I see nothing wrong with shooting button bucks if it is part of herd management and is to the benifit of the herd. Here we have DMAP programs that in effect manage areas of 1100 acr. or more for trophy deer. There is much record keeping involved but one of the first things you do is kill off does and buttons in the first few years then keep the ratio more even . It works to produce more big bucks.
What does not work is hunters thinking they know more than the people who watch the herd year round and set seasons to manage it. It creates conflict and the herd suffers.
the choice is more small deer or less quality deer

DANNY-L · « **Reply #24 on:** April 23, 2012, 03:05:48 AM »

How does it produce big bucks when the buck fawns are being killed off?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #25 on:** April 23, 2012, 04:05:40 AM »

Quote from: DANNY-L on April 23, 2012, 03:05:48 AM

How does it produce big bucks when the buck fawns are being killed off?

Quite simple really. The bucks that live are allowed to grow to an age where they have mature / large racks. The bucks that have poor racks are taken along with a few buttons and does. With the pressure off the young bucks they grow. With the smaller number of deer on site there is more food for the ones left and they are stronger. Here on DMAP (DEER MANAGEMENT ASSISTANCE PROGRAM) desinated land there is a min. size rack that can be taken. Hunters under 15 (or what ever age you pick ) can take one less than mature buck. In most cases they provide a ring that must not be able to fit over the rack or the hunter pays a steep fine. Every deer taken is inspected and a jaw bone removed and aged . Good records on kills are recorded and checked by the game dept. The object is to blance the herd for the better and make sure really good bucks mate with does to produce more good bucks.
To be honest its hard to get meat hunters to agree but it really works well where it is being used.

bubba · « **Reply #26 on:** April 24, 2012, 12:07:43 PM »

a few button bucks? 19 thousand a season is not a few. How many of them were going to be cull bucks and how many trophies? I guess we will never know huh.

hillbill · « **Reply #27 on:** April 24, 2012, 02:25:51 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on April 23, 2012, 04:05:40 AM

Quote from: DANNY-L on April 23, 2012, 03:05:48 AM
How does it produce big bucks when the buck fawns are being killed off?

Quite simple really. The bucks that live are allowed to grow to an age where they have mature / large racks. The bucks that have poor racks are taken along with a few buttons and does. With the pressure off the young bucks they grow. With the smaller number of deer on site there is more food for the ones left and they are stronger. Here on DMAP (DEER MANAGEMENT ASSISTANCE PROGRAM) desinated land there is a min. size rack that can be taken. Hunters under 15 (or what ever age you pick ) can take one less than mature buck. In most cases they provide a ring that must not be able to fit over the rack or the hunter pays a steep fine. Every deer taken is inspected and a jaw bone removed and aged . Good records on kills are recorded and checked by the game dept. The object is to blance the herd for the better and make sure really good bucks mate with does to produce more good bucks.
To be honest its hard to get meat hunters to agree but it really works well where it is being used.
[/quote

well im a meat hunter and i agree with you!if i let a strong well formed 6 pt go and shoot the button rite behind him.how am i reduceing the chances of me seeing that 6 pt as a nice wide 8 next year?like i said im a meat hunter but am manageing for trophy bucks for my son and my guests.if we can reduce deer pop to less than holding capacity and get buck doe ratios closer to 1 to 1. we will see bigger buks and way more rutting activity for a longer period of time.that is my goal.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #28 on:** April 25, 2012, 01:10:54 AM »

Then the DMAP is for you as it works , check it out on Va. Dept of game and fish.

As for 19 thousand it would depend on the ratio of buttons to other deer along with total heard population . With out knowing any other numbers 19 thousand might sound high but in reality may be low. But that has been the hard part of game management , knee jerk reaction with out looking at the whole picture and the facts.............

bubba · « **Reply #29 on:** April 25, 2012, 12:17:03 PM »

I guess it just makes no sense to me. Almost everyone yells for antler restrictions and you can not shoot anything smaller than 3 on one side. But these same people are ok with killing button bucks. Please enlighten me with the logic.