Author Topic: First outing wit New 7mm-08 = FTF (Read 1210 times)

Jim Flinchbaugh · « **on:** March 23, 2012, 02:57:08 PM »

Been to the FAQ already.

First 6 shots ok, then FTF, re-cock, boom. Out of 40 rounds of ammo
12 FTF. Got all of them to go off after pulling and re-chambering with the
exception one that would not light. Hit it 4 times, no boom boom.
I AM holding the trigger full back.
Where do I look next? Barrel locks up good, no side to side movement.
To me, the firing pin strike looks light-but I'm a recent convert from the bolt gun camp.
I read something about the transfer bar pin not being peened right but I dunno what to look for there.

CCI 200 primers, new Rem brass, flashhole de-burred and primer pockets uniformed.

This would shoot a few shots tight and then a flyer. Classic light strike indicator.
Whats the cure?

Jason F · « **Reply #1 on:** March 23, 2012, 03:16:33 PM »

What brass you using,is it 308 necked down,

Jason F · « **Reply #2 on:** March 23, 2012, 03:19:56 PM »

I just noticed you said new remington,i had some trouble with remington 308 i switched to federal 308 necked down and havnt had any trouble with it since

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #3 on:** March 23, 2012, 05:46:50 PM »

Before you go crazy, and blame the gun. I would switch to Federal primers, and give it a shot. I found CCI primers to be very hard primers, compared to the other brands.
When I was shooting PPC, I had a lot of light strikes with CCI's, (because of a very light spring) once I switched to Federals, no more problems.

Shoots For Fun · « **Reply #4 on:** March 23, 2012, 05:59:50 PM »

I had the same problem with my 204 Ruger. Many FTF.s and when it did go boom it sometimes left pierced primers. I've been reloading for 40+ years and never experienced anything like it

I went through all the different primers, different brands of cases, nothing helped

I ordered a new firing pin and spring. It did not help.

I swallowed my pride and fetched me some new Hornady factory cartridges.
Out of twenty I had 6 FTF's. I gave up!

I called a local gunsmith and explained to him what was going on. He has had some experience with these handi rifles and told me to bring it to him in a couple of days. When I took it to him, he had already gotten what he said would fix it. He took me to the backroom and I watched him as he replaced the hammer spring. We went outside and fired an few rounds and all was fine again

Since then I have put 4-500 rounds of various reloads through it and not one FTF. While he had it apart he honed up the trigger parts for me and really made it a nice shootin machine. All of this he did for $35.
Don't know for sure, but this could be your fix as well.

Good shootin!

yukondog · « **Reply #5 on:** March 24, 2012, 03:46:43 AM »

If new, I would give CS a call they should send a return shipping label and get them to fix it. I had the same problem with a new 30-30 sent it back they fixed it and have had no FTF to date, good luck.
Try a box of factory rounds first and if all go bang look at your reloads.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #6 on:** March 24, 2012, 04:30:27 AM »

OK, first off sorry for the troubles.

You have two choices, fix yourself or have someone do it for you. If new, maybe just return to Remington and let them deal with it.

If you wanna do it yourself, here is where we can help. Start with the basics, checking things.

1) Pin protrusion. With barrel off receiver, first cock hammer and pull trigger fully and lower hammer, holding trigger measure the amount the pin protrudes. Should be a min of .040. If at 40 or close you can increase by carefully grinding .010 or so off the hammer where it contacts the frame.

2) Head space. With barrel off and extractor OUT. Drop a shell in and using a straight edge look at the case head. It should be very close to flush. Your a reloader, think seating a primer. ever so slightly below flush is OK. Allot below, say .010+ NO GOOD, that is excessive and will result if stretched cases and frequent FTF's.

3) Something we know of is poor quality hammer springs. As a rule I swap in Wolffe springs before even firing a new H&R firearm. Brownells and Midway carry them.

4) The disconnector is another known problem. There was a sn range and I do not off the top of my head rem. But its in the FAQ's. The factory will fix this one free of charge IIRC.

5) You mentioned fully pulling the trigger, so you know or have read about this possible issue.

6) Now look at your reloads. Good on uniform and clean pockets! The suggestion of different primers is a good one as many have had issue with CCI's for being hard. But a good HD hammer spring (like the Wolffe) should take care of that!

Look at these things and get back to us!

GOOD LUCK,
CW

Jim Flinchbaugh · « **Reply #7 on:** March 24, 2012, 04:47:19 AM »

Thanks guys, after sleeping on it, I think the wolf heavy hammer spring is the easiest thing to try first, Pin protrusion is good.My 25-06 handi has not FTF, but the strike looks light on it too. Keep in mind I'm used to a custom 98 Mauser bolt gun that has good striking force.
I do wonder if the lighter strike is resulting in inconsistent ignition, and resulting in flyers. Both rifles will shoot 1/2 groups, but it is like 2 shots close to touching, 3rd of in left field and the next back in the group again.

Wolf springs coming up!

Jim Flinchbaugh · « **Reply #8 on:** March 24, 2012, 04:54:06 AM »

One more question, is the heavier hammer spring gonna change my trigger pull weight?
Not familiar enough with these rifles yet to know their relationship
I got the trigger down to 2-3/4 pounds, hate to loose it!

quickdtoo · « **Reply #9 on:** March 24, 2012, 05:34:33 AM »

A heavier hammer spring will likely increase trigger weight, it may even be too much for it if it's that light, going below 3-3½lbs can be risky and it will drop in weight quickly as it wears, been there, done that, I had one that was at 2½lbs when I honed it, wasn't long before for it was down to 21oz, I didn't trust it, so I replaced parts and started over.

Wolff has the best price on the springs if you buy a 5-pack, link in the FAQs.

Tim

moorepower · « **Reply #10 on:** March 24, 2012, 06:17:44 AM »

Switching primers is a crutch. If this is a new gun they will fix it. Does if ftf with the hammer extension on and off or just if it is on. This is why I chose to go with the Knight screw in jobs that are much lighter. They are around $10 for a 3 pack.

Jim Flinchbaugh · « **Reply #11 on:** March 24, 2012, 06:49:18 AM »

Haven't tried it w/o the hammer extension, Might do that tomorrow when at the range,
I agree completely about the primer switch being a crutch, it SHOULD fire ANY primer - if the rifle is right

Jim Flinchbaugh · « **Reply #12 on:** March 24, 2012, 10:38:37 AM »

Nuttin' to do, so I went back to the cave and took it apart.
Took the boogers out of the firing pin hole and put a light spring in there.
It fired 20 primers with out a hitch.
We'll see what happens with live ammo at the range tomorrow

Jim Flinchbaugh · « **Reply #13 on:** March 25, 2012, 05:54:12 PM »

Shot it today after the match. Not as many FTF but still, 5 out of 20 rounds.
New brass, the shoulder might not be in the right place yet either.
Neck sizing the next batch and see what happens

Jim Flinchbaugh · « **Reply #14 on:** March 26, 2012, 01:41:50 PM »

Google is my friend

Search results brought me to threads here @GBO not in the faq.
The problem is the striker/transfer bar is too short, even with full trigger pull it only contacts about 1/3 of the firing pin
resulting in a light strike and spitting the transfer bar out from under the firing pin. I'm gonna do some more measuring,
I think a weld on top of the bar to make it taller, and some file work & I'll be good to go.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #15 on:** March 26, 2012, 02:40:38 PM »

Quote from: Jim Flinchbaugh on March 26, 2012, 01:41:50 PM

Google is my friend

Search results brought me to threads here @GBO not in the faq.
The problem is the striker/transfer bar is too short, even with full trigger pull it only contacts about 1/3 of the firing pin
resulting in a light strike and spitting the transfer bar out from under the firing pin. I'm gonna do some more measuring,
I think a weld on top of the bar to make it taller, and some file work & I'll be good to go.

Jim,
We did mention the transfer bar to you, its my #4 and yes the factory (us too) know about this and they will fix free of charge...

CW

Jim Flinchbaugh · « **Reply #16 on:** March 27, 2012, 04:36:53 AM »

Quote from: cwlongshot on March 26, 2012, 02:40:38 PM

We did mention the transfer bar to you, its my #4 and yes the factory (us too) know about this and they will fix free of charge...

CW

you did mention the "disconnector" without any description of what the problem was though,
The threads that talked about this are 2 years old, H&R should have had this sorted out by now
I'll make it work the way it should.

Dinny · « **Reply #17 on:** March 27, 2012, 03:41:33 PM »

Jim,
If that doesn't fix it, I have one last idea. It's a shot in the dark but.... You could get a rim counterbore cut and use necked-down .307 Win brass. That will give you a rim to headspace off instead of the shoulder. I'm currently having that very thing done to my new 7mm-08 superlight barrel, even though it hasn't had any FTF issues.

Thanks, Dinny

Jim Flinchbaugh · « **Reply #18 on:** March 28, 2012, 06:27:23 AM »

Yesterday, I spent all day in the shop with the 7mm-08
I took it apart, reassembled all the pieces on the outside of the action so I could study the movement of all the parts.
The trigger extension, lifter and transfer bar are not moving the transfer bar high enough for full contact on the firing pin even with full trigger stroke, much less a short stroke.
I initially thought about adding a piece to the top of the transfer bar, but after thinking, it would only fix one thing for me.
So what I did was, I made a new trigger extension. Raising the lifting surface, and extending the surface that controls the timing of the transfer bar drop.
Then after hours of "put it together and take it part" filing everything to fit and work, I now have a full firing pin strike, even when stopping the trigger movement at the break. It breaks like a bolt gun, and very little over travel on the trigger. This mod is completely reversable by placing the stock trigger extension back in the action.
It lit off ALL of the primers that FTF at the range the other day, even the ones I hit 4-5 times trying to get ignition. Primer indentation is MUCH better

Brian offered to send me replacement parts that should correct the issue, I will try them when they get here as I would rather have a rifle unmodified (all stock parts) in the event I ever should sell it. I'll get to the range soon and try it out again and see what happens with live ammo.
I think someone smarter than me could really make some mods or replacement parts for these Handi's that would allow for a great trigger and add much to reliable ignition, and still incorporate the safety features.

Thanks to all who offered suggestions, I'll report back after the next live fire

Jim Flinchbaugh · « **Reply #19 on:** March 28, 2012, 06:31:18 AM »

Dinny that's a good idea on the rimmed cartridge. Single shots like rims jobs

Explains why the 30-30 is such a good shooter in these things. I had one when I was 12, a Topper combo
with 30-30 and 20 guage barrels, I wish I still had it

cwlongshot · « **Reply #20 on:** March 28, 2012, 08:14:18 AM »

Good work Jim!

A couple guys have charted this coarse too. You are 100% correct with some time getting the required modifications "down". It could be done on additional actions in less than a hour or two each.

Some other guys have better fit the barrels resulting in better more consistant accuracy. Fred up in Canada comes to mind here. He also has done beautiful work "reworking" the wood.

Still others have found the latch spring rebounds on the bigger recoiling calibers resulting in inconsistant latching and subsiquent in-accuracys or fliers. Again all are in FAQ's, admittedly TONS are in there and can be overlooked.

Personally speaking I keep a couple "sets" of internal parts on hand for these guns. More than once I have needed them to either refer to or to replace a bad part or one I made bad

Best of luck with this issue I am sure you got it licked this time!!

CW

quickdtoo · « **Reply #21 on:** March 28, 2012, 09:13:15 AM »

All of this has pretty much been covered in the FAQs thread TRANSFER BAR AND MISFIRES, particularly the trigger extension issue.

Tim

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,227831.msg1099262522.html#msg1099262522

Jim Flinchbaugh · « **Reply #22 on:** March 28, 2012, 11:51:37 AM »

CW,
yeah, the thread you linked put me on the right track for what I needed to do.
Dunno why I didn't see it when browsing the FAQ, but googling this site, brought it up for me.
Now I need range time!
BTW,
Brian's 1st rate! what a guy