Author Topic: Cast (BHN) Brinell Hardness (Read 1177 times)

PigBoy Crabshaw · « **on:** March 24, 2012, 04:13:21 PM »

I came across some stats and was wondering if there correct pertaining to
muzzle velocity, BHN, and bore leading.
With cast an oversized fit of .001 - .002 is need to seal off gas is an important factor.

800 - 1000 fps = 10-12 BHN
1000-1400 fps = 12-16 BHN
> 1700 fps = 20-30 BHN
I don't plan on running cast bullets at jacketed speeds and want to find a good range
load to start off my reloading career.

I picked a nice used 1894CB 45colt - 20" Marlin on the cheap. I think the 45LC is a good round to start off with and get my feet wet reloading, or so I'm told.
Looking for Cowboy type loads for knocking iron down.
Missouri Bullets seem to be popular
Cowboy #1
.452 Diameter
.45 Colt (.452)
250 Grain RNFP
Going to start with the old stand by of Unique or 231. Vel between 800 - 1000fps.
My long winded question is; Do you think the Brinell or 12 is the way to go?
Would like to hear what you all are shooting out of your 45LC levers for range work.

Thanks
-gary

LONGTOM · « **Reply #1 on:** March 24, 2012, 05:14:00 PM »

I use a 255gr lead flat nose BHN 15 over 12.5gr of Hodgson HS6 in all my 45 colt loads that will be used in Ruger Blackhawk strenth handguns and all of my rifles.
Burns clean and so far every gun has loved them.
Velocity out of my custom 5.5" Blackhawk runs right at 1040 fps.
Never checked the speed out of my rifles.
Started with Unique when I first started loading the colt but soon left it because it was just to dirty of a powder for my likes.
It is a good powder but I like others better.
I do use Unique in my colt clone guns that are kept under 900 fps.
My old 7.5" Schofield seems to like it at about 840 fps.
Might try trailboss for the Schofield and colt clones the next time I load for them.
I don't shoot much in the way of cowboy speed loads as most of my handguns are used for hunting so most of my experence is with the slower powders ( HS6 & H110 ).

LONGTOM

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #2 on:** March 24, 2012, 05:32:55 PM »

Those stats are not correct. Leading is not really related to BHN given a proper cast bullet of proper alloy that fits the throat and groove depth of the bore. Oh yes, and a good lubricant is used. A BHN of 8 - 10 with the proper alloy and proper lube will do fine and should not lead for loads in the 800-1000 fps range. Hard cast on the 22-24 BHN also works as well such as Laser-Cast Bullets. BHN only measures half of the bullets "strength". The other half is the malleabilty or "toughness" as some call it. That is different from the BHN and is dependent on the alloys composition.

The trend in Cowboy Action loads for the .45 Colt these days revolve around the 200 gr RNFN at 625 - 675 fps out of a SAA 4 3/4" and 800 - 850 fps out of 20 - 24" rifles.

Larry Gibson

Land_Owner · « **Reply #3 on:** March 24, 2012, 05:34:02 PM »

Long answer very short, there are multiple avenues that cause leading. Your "formula" will not assure no leading. More reading is required. When I find the "causes of leading" link I will post it for your reference. It is eye opening and creates a lot of brain scratching.

IMO, I think that softer BHN cast bullets with milder powder loading is the way to start. You can always cast harder bullets by different "chemistry" and/or water quenching, load hotter rounds by adding powder, and watch for both increasing pressure and leading along the way.

Savage · « **Reply #4 on:** March 26, 2012, 12:51:40 AM »

Don't know what kind of rifling the .45 Colt Marlin has, but the " Micro Groove" rifling used by Marlin in some rifles doesn't work well with cast bullets I'm told. I have no personal experience with Marlins and cast bullets, just something to be aware of.
Savage

PigBoy Crabshaw · « **Reply #5 on:** March 26, 2012, 04:58:55 AM »

Quote from: Savage on March 26, 2012, 12:51:40 AM

Don't know what kind of rifling the .45 Colt Marlin has, but the " Micro Groove" rifling used by Marlin in some rifles doesn't work well with cast bullets I'm told. I have no personal experience with Marlins and cast bullets, just something to be aware of.
Savage

They were made for shooting lead in cowboy action. Tapered octagon with deep-cut Ballard-type rifling (6 grooves)

GH1 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 26, 2012, 07:34:06 AM »

As was noted, fit is far more important than hardness to prevent leading. As far as Micro-Groove barrels go, they can shoot cast bullets just fine, but they typically need a larger bullet than a ballard bore will.
Whoever told you the 45 Colt was a good round to learn reloading on gave you good advice. Those old straight walled black powder cartridges are very forgiving. The only thing you need to be careful of is the possibility of double charging. Modern smokeless powder take up much less room than BP so if you're not paying attention you can double charge the round and have a real problem. That's how guns get damaged and people get hurt.
Unique is a good powder, but for a plinker I would recommend Trail Boss.
TB was designed to produce mild loads in old BP cartridges used by target shooters. It's unique design makes it extremely bulky, virtually eliminating the chance for a double charge. I've used it successfully in .38 spcl, .357 mag, .45 Colt, and .45-70. It's good stuff.
Anyway, welcome to the wonderful world of reloading. I find it to be a rewarding and relaxing hobby, hopefully you will too.
GH1

PigBoy Crabshaw · « **Reply #7 on:** March 26, 2012, 04:21:37 PM »

Thank you for your input. I have a pound of trail boss!

I only need the bullets now. I'm staying with the original 250Gr in RNPF.
The cowboy bullets at either Missouri Bullet Co. or Rimrock look to be of good
quality from what I've read. I think I'll order up a box of 500 to make sure there
to my Marlin's liking before going hog wild on a case. -g

GH1 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 26, 2012, 10:30:24 PM »

If you're not going to slug your bores I would buy 100 of a couple of diferent sizes and see how they shoot. You may have to run two different size bullets. I'm going to order 100 SWC for my revolver sized at .359 to see if I can solve my leading problem.
GH1

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #9 on:** March 27, 2012, 12:37:01 AM »

im impressed. At least no so called expert has come on this post and told you you need soft alloys that will bump up to prevent leading. I about want to choke people who say that.

Land_Owner · « **Reply #10 on:** March 27, 2012, 01:58:26 AM »

Lloyd...you should have been the one to recommend this link: http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,247755.0.html

Within the linked document, whose author(s) are friends of Lloyd, there is a wealth of information that describes the ways and means of barrel leading. It is recommended reading for everyone that casts and shoots lead bullets.

PigBoy Crabshaw · « **Reply #11 on:** March 30, 2012, 06:56:50 PM »

I ordered up a 1000 250gr RNFP's from the Missouri Bullet Co. today.
After I finish my shelf for the loading bench and mount my presses, I'll
be ready to start my reloading career with the 45Colt.
Thanks for the your input.
-gary

336SC · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2012, 05:02:12 AM »

I cast with wheel weight lead with 8oz of tin added to a 10lb pot. Don't know what the BHN is but I do know I run 180gr bullets @ 2275fps out of my .32 Win Specials with NO leading and superb accuracy. As mentioned above, leading can be caused by a number of factors including a too hard bullet. Too hard and the bullet won't bump up to obturate the bore which causes gas cutting and leading.
336SC

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #13 on:** March 31, 2012, 06:34:00 AM »

Quote from: 336SC on March 31, 2012, 05:02:12 AM

I cast with wheel weight lead with 8oz of tin added to a 10lb pot. Don't know what the BHN is but I do know I run 180gr bullets @ 2275fps out of my .32 Win Specials with NO leading and superb accuracy. As mentioned above, leading can be caused by a number of factors including a too hard bullet. Too hard and the bullet won't bump up to obturate the bore which causes gas cutting and leading.
336SC

If your bullets are AC'd the BHN will probably be 14 - 17, more likely 16 - 17. That, the probalbe medium to slow burning rate powder and the 16" twist of the .32 Win Special barrel is what allows the "superb accuracy" at the "2275 fps". Should be excellent for hunting to 200 yards

Larry Gibson

336SC · « **Reply #14 on:** March 31, 2012, 09:25:14 AM »

Larry,
Yes mine are air cooled. My mould is an old RCBS 08-170 designed for the 8mm Mauser but works perfectly for my lever action .32 Specials with it's big flat nose. Hodgons new LVR powder gave me both high velocity and accuracy. First photo is the RCBS 08-170 @ 180gr launched at 2275 fps with LVR powder. Second photo is a Ranch Dog mould # TLC 323-170, also at 180gr launched at 1744fps with 16gr of 2400 powder, which has been my standard target load thru every .32 Special I own (4 of them)
336SC