Author Topic: Rubber "0" Ring trick ? (Read 2329 times)

E. Miller · « **on:** January 26, 2004, 05:00:02 PM »

I'm new to the board and I've seen several references to the rubber "O" ring trick used to help accuracy. Could someone please explain what this is, what it helps and how you do it. - Thanks - Eddie

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2004, 01:33:50 AM »

I don't know if I would trust a rubber O ring but the principle behind it is that it elevates the barrel from the handguard, free floating the barrel, or as much free floating as can be had in an encore. I went to Home depot and got a pack of neopreme 5/32 flat washers, and a pack of #8 nylon washers. They are roughly the same size but the neopreme washers are much thicker. I placed these on the forearm bolts between the barrel and the forearm. it gives quite a bit of free float, several thicknesses of a dollar. I tightened them up nice and snug but not over tight. I'm not sure if this helped my accuracy that much because I honestly didn't really shoot my 22-250 barrel much before I floated it. After it was floated with the neopreme washers it now shoots sub 1" groups at 200 and 1.5-2" groups at 300, which is odd because 100 yard groups weren't that impressive. I am very pleased with my encore, 24" sporter 22-250 barrel with burris 3-9x40 ballistic plex scope. I have only really shot it at long range the one time so far but I got very good results with remington 45gr HP UMC ammo. 1/2 MOA out to 300 yards with $8.75 per 20 ammo is good enough for me. I got this rifle for a light handy carry gun for coyotes and the occasional wolf, light and short and easy to carry on a snowmachine.

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2004, 04:52:28 AM »

It was a black synthetic stock, so I painted it. I put in some base patches of gray primer and then covered with twits and bushy weeds, sprayed white over the whole thing lightly, then I took a mesh cloth and put in some brown snake scales, lightly in random patches. the barrel and scope are covered in a type of athletic tape, I put marks here and there with a sharpie marker. This athletic tape is a little different than most, doesn't have as much residue and isn't quite so "fabricy" it almost had a rubber like feel to it, actualy doesn't stick all that well either but it works. I normally would use vetrap in white to do the same thing, much better than the tape I used for this one but I had the tape, didn't have any vetrap. When I get a chance I'll hit up a local vet for some of the vetrap adn change it out.

Pruts · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2004, 09:09:57 AM »

Fellas,

Do you need to get screws longer than the factory ones?

Pruts

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2004, 10:17:40 AM »

I didn't have to use any longer screws but I did have to remove the metal washer that is on the head end of the front screw.

Catfish · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2004, 02:16:21 PM »

I made a forearm for my Contender. I used a piece of walnut and cut a long grove about 6 in. long and 3/4 of an in. wide in the barrel channel. I then put in a piece of steel and set the mounting lugs on this piece os steel with the barrel floated. Don`t look like much, but this is a carry gun and the thing drives tacks.

pa ridge-runner · « **Reply #6 on:** January 30, 2004, 01:05:43 AM »

:grin: After hearing so much about this forearm floating I cant understand WHY T.C. doesnt just put the darn washers on.or do something to eradicate this problem :? :?

Thebear_78 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2004, 01:48:45 AM »

There are several things that T/C could do to make thier stocks better. Washers to float the barrel, a aluminum bedding block for the butstock, would make them a heck of a lot stronger. Not sure why they don't do it, but wish they did.

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2004, 06:52:36 AM »

If I remember correctly TC had/has a better mounting system for the contender. Not sure why they didn't carry it over to the encore.

Runs with Scissors · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2004, 08:54:22 AM »

When you float the barrel using electrical tape, how many layers of it are required?

Bill

pa ridge-runner · « **Reply #10 on:** January 31, 2004, 03:14:28 AM »

:grin:I ordered and am waiting for a new T.C. encore in a 7mm-08.This gun is not really a cheap gun at over 500 bucks.Obviously we are not talking top of the line but when I hear about putting electrical tape on it to remedy certain problems,I have to say I'm not real pleased

, but I have heard alot of good about these guns.
It seems like a simple solution and a very cheap one,so why doesnt T.C. do something about this?? :? :? Seems dumb to me :roll:

Bullseye · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2004, 04:30:22 AM »

I see folks starting to ask why T/C does not fix the problem. I for one have never had the problem. Mine shoots great without any washers or anything under the forearm. None of my friends that shoot Encores have had this problem either. I did have a Contender barrel once that would not shoot worth a toot, but putting a spacer in did not help it. Is there a problem to fix? I do not know, just seems that there are guns that shoot fine by just screwing the forearm on and then others seem to have problems. I read a good article a while back that said that some guns will not shoot good with a free floated barrel. Some guns like some pressure on the fore end. Maybe the problem is not universal with the Encores, it varies by gun and what the barrel likes just like with bolt actions, lever actions and others.

hunt4570 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 14, 2004, 07:42:34 AM »

Quote from: Runs with Scissors

When you float the barrel using electrical tape, how many layers of it are required?

To me ...after a while seems the tape would compress and be ineffectual,I did mine with #8 ss washers ,perfect fit and definatly improves accuracy.SGB

Flash · « **Reply #13 on:** February 15, 2004, 02:30:51 AM »

I used faucet washers and they helped me on my 223 contender and now, I use em' on my Encore. The washers keep the screws in place on my forends too.

DannoBoone · « **Reply #14 on:** February 15, 2004, 03:06:43 PM »

Quote from: Thebear_78

There are several things that T/C could do to make thier stocks better. Washers to float the barrel, a aluminum bedding block for the butstock, would make them a heck of a lot stronger. Not sure why they don't do it, but wish they did.

Not sure why they don't do it? Answer is simple -- T/C is selling Encores
faster than they can make them, as is.

The custom competition is making aluminum bedding blocks for the
buttstock and solving the forearm problems with hanger bars and
specially made forearms to fit the hanger bars (for a price).

It only takes 10% bad of anything good to make the whole thing bad, and
it seems like that is what is happening with Encores. People will strongly
voice their opinion when they are unsatisfied while saying little when a
company makes them happy with a product. Someone guessed that in
the case of the Encore, it is more like 1 in 5. This would make for a lot
of unsatisfied folks out there who wish to voice their opinion.

I was fairly happy with the 209x50, and then got a 25/06 barrel which
got horrible groups. Imagine one's displeasure when the smoke pole
gets 300% better groups than an otherwise very accurate round. T/C's
response (or lack thereof) added to that displeasure. Several things
were done to that barrel and it now gets 3/4" groups, no thanks to T/C.
But I am happy, by totally eliminating the T/C problems and getting
my barrels and wood from VVCG. They cost more, but they don't give
me headaches and withhold the aspirin.

chuckduster · « **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2004, 04:07:06 PM »

I was told form the get go not to order any of the T/C factory or T/C custom shop(fox ridge) barrels becouse so many of the guys I had talking too went round and round with T/C about problems with their barrels. I was told to check out shops like Virgin Valley, Bull Berry, SSK, Bellm and Van Horn first. I just got a V.V. barrel chambered in .338 Ultra Mag and was SUPER impressed with the quality and even more so with my first handloads producing groups of under 1.000 @ 100 yards. Best group of .930. Got another barrel on order for Bull Berry in 22-250 Ackley Improved. Next one will be either a .17 Mach IV, 20 PPC and a deer barrel chambered in 6.5-284.

Runs with Scissors · « **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2004, 04:28:35 PM »

If its one in five, that works out to 20%. That's 20 people out of 100 who get screwed by T/C. I really know of no other product where so many get unsatisfactory results. McDonalds would fail. S&W would get sued. GM would have a class action lawsuit and a lot of negative press.
Thompson keeps just shoving the crap out the door and people are lined up to buy it.
I don't know you guys really well but I would wager you too would be pissed if you spent $500-$600 on a gun that not only wouldn't shoot, but wouldn't even lock up safely.
I'm really happy for the four of you that are satisfied with your Encores. I'm the fifth and I'm pretty disenchanted with a company that specializes in single-shot products and has difficulty making them right.
T/C's is getting their second chance with me. But if my Encore comes home after two months at the factory and doesn't shoot or rattles about, I'm selling it and moving on.

Bill

DannoBoone · « **Reply #17 on:** February 22, 2004, 12:16:33 PM »

Ok, OK!!! -- I do have a good comment about my Encore. :roll:

The T/C receiver along with the Boyd laminated butt stock (which hasn't
cracked like the factory one did) does allow for some very top notch
accuracy with my Tactical 20 barrel and custom 209x50 barrel.

Since I'm attempting to limit this to a good comment as much as
possible, I'll force myself no comment about the factory 25/06 and
factory 209x50.

DannoBoone · « **Reply #18 on:** February 22, 2004, 12:24:45 PM »

Or put another way...........

Let's count the parts:

Buttstock -- bad
Receiver -- good
209x50 barrel -- mediocre
25/06 barrel -- real bad, but salvageable!
Forearm -- mediocre

Throwing out the "mediocre's", that leaves me with a 33 1/3% success
rate, something to really smile about. So, why should I complain!!! :twisted:

Bullseye · « **Reply #19 on:** February 22, 2004, 04:41:34 PM »

You fellas must have big black clouds that follow you around.

hunt4570 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 23, 2004, 02:23:50 AM »

Quote from: Bullseye

You fellas must have big black clouds that follow you a

round.

Ya really.I've got a 16" 223 factory,shoots 3/4" at 150 yds,a 14" 30/30 does about the same.I had a 308B**** 14" I couldn't get to shoot less than 2 1/2" at a hundred yds.So much for custom.SGB

Runs with Scissors · « **Reply #21 on:** February 23, 2004, 06:33:29 AM »

The only "black cloud" firearm I own is my Encore. I do hope it is repaired because I really like the rifle and have had excellent luck with my T/C Contender and Hawken. I've already invested in a top notch scope, laminated stock, hard case and reloading dies.
I took my new Encore to the range with several shooting/hunting buddies to sight it in. We set up at 50 and 100 yards as usual.
My first and second groups were fired at 50 yards and came in at 3/4". They were, of course, high because the scope was bore sighted.
The second group was 3" high (right where I wanted it) and less than 1"in diameter.
The third group held three shots in 3/4" and two flyers 3" to the right.
I suspected the barrel was coining a bit so I cleaned it.
The fourth group was all over the place, but I called it a wash because I had just cleaned the barrel.
I had the same problem with the next two groups (3 shots in a tight, sub-inch group and two flyers always to the right). We thought it was the forend at first, but I felt the barrel move when I was tightening it up. You definately could feel movement if you held the tip of the barrel while resting the buttstock on solid ground. It felt like the tip of the barrel was moving 1-2mm and you could hear an audible knock in the action when the barrel end was jiggled.
Needless to say, I never moved to the 100 yard target with my Encore.
I put it away after firing 40 rounds and shipped it back to the factory later that week. It's been gone now just under two months. I personally find it irritating that my $800 investment doesn't shoot. The long turnaround also is upsetting. My problem is not a bad barrel. It's a combination of frame, barrel and hinge pin.
But, If I had a black cloud following me, this situation would have happened right before deer season.

Bill

lakota · « **Reply #22 on:** February 25, 2004, 05:45:16 AM »

It's not just T/C- IMHO none of these companies really care about the quality of their rifles. Remington-my buddy just rid himself of a .221 fireball in their classic rifle series they put out once a year-the rifle was a spectacular dud! eratic groups nothing under an inch at 100 yards. No amount of tinkering would make this rifle shhot-Remington can keep their rifles as far as I am concerned. In the late 90's I bought my first T/C, 2 barrels one in .357 Max that would not even group off the rest at 25 yards w/ a leopold scope. So I think to myself, " a .223 barrel would have to shoot right?" Wrong- just as dismal as the .357. I took a bath with this one and traded the whole rig out right for a Super Black Hawk. My last Ruger rifle, which will be my LAST Ruger rifle, was an M77 MK II in .223 Same scenario as my buddy's Remington, not to mention that this $700 dollar rifle needs a $100 trigger job right out of the box.Which brings me to my latest T/C. I traded the P.O.S. Ruger for an early 80's Contender frame, by some streak of luck I find a never-been-fired .222 carbine barrel in some dealers back room, finaly a rifle that will shoot. In my opinion if it was made after 1990 it is garbage

Runs with Scissors · « **Reply #23 on:** February 25, 2004, 07:48:01 AM »

Lakota.
I appreciate your comments, and I agree that most firearms manufactured after 1990 are pretty crappy.
I have over 35 quality firearms. All came from a period beginning in the early 1970's and ending in the mid 1980's.
All of them shoot at the point of aim. None have required any service, and none have warning signs stamped into their barrels or frames.
The wood furnishings on these firearms are beautiful.
I do own a really old Contender (late 70's). It currently has a 10" octagon .22LR barrel and octangular T/C Lobo pistol scope.
It is an excellent shooter and has an adjustable trigger.
I purchased the Contender to enter competitive metallic silhouette shooting and set it up with a Super 14 30-30 barrel. I won trophys with that setup and regret I sold the barrel.
The Encore replaced a 30-06 BAR that I used as a hunting rifle since 1980. Other than being heavy and a bit of a overkill for deer, the rifle produced 1" groups at 100 yards and probably jamed 3 times while I owned it. I'm lucky that I used the BAR this past hunting season because the Encore wouldn't have worked. I now wish I hadn't sold it.
I'll get the Encore back from T/C next month (they have had it 2 months as of today). I'll remount the scope and head to the range.
If it doesn't perform as it should, T/C and I are history.

Bill

Bullseye · « **Reply #24 on:** February 25, 2004, 02:29:21 PM »

Well I own plenty of guns made after 1990 and they are pretty and shoot good. 3 of my Contenders and 1 Encore fall into this category. I think the real problem in a lot of cases is the shooter, and I am not passing judgement on anyone in this forum. Sub MOA groups are not easy to obtain. I have three guns that will shoot sub MOA everytime when I shoot them. My wife cannot shoot sub MOA groups with them. Does that mean the gun is junk? Does that mean she is a terrible shot? No to both, she can shoot good groups but is happy with a 2" group and I just plain shoot a whole lot more than her. Now I am no competition shooter, but how many times does a friend say I bought this new gun last week and it will only shoot 2" groups. That might not be that abnormal, because in my opinion sub MOA groups can be hard to acheive unless you reload and shoot a whole bunch. That is unless everyone is a natural born great shot like me and all of you guys. :grin:

pa ridge-runner · « **Reply #25 on:** February 26, 2004, 01:08:43 AM »

Runs w/scissers,
Sorry to hear that you hated your Ruger.I own about 14 guns total and if I had to part with all but one,I would keep my Ruger m77.I LOVE this gun.Shoots fantastic,is light(I have the ultra-light model),and when I pull up with gun it feels like part of my body.I have killed running deer with it and put my shot where it needed to be.
After hearing all this stuff about T.C. I kinda wished I'd have gone and bought a new single shot RUGER.I still havent gotten my new Encore(7mm-08) yet.Ordered it in early January.I am buying this gun for my first year hunter, son.He will be 12 in October and I thought this would be a great gun for him....and ME.Im just hoping I get one that doesn't come with all the troubles I've heard.If so,I will trade it in I guess.The reason I ordered this TC is because I heard it was an accurate reliable gun :? :? .The cost is not really cheap either.I know there are alot of cheaper guns for a youth out there but I dont usually buy crap.Lets hope this new gun doesn't fall into that catagory. :cry: :? :eek:

PARR

Runs with Scissors · « **Reply #26 on:** February 26, 2004, 03:53:02 AM »

Parr.

You have a really good chance of getting a solid Encore. Word around here is "one in five" for problems.
And. if your problem is solely with the barrel, the service turnaround is a couple of weeks. T/C is quick on barrels, otherwise they are incredibly slow.
When mine comes home, its first trip to the range will be with the stock iron sights and a 50 yard target. If it shoots well I'll put the scope back on and keep it.

Bill

lakota · « **Reply #27 on:** February 27, 2004, 06:49:36 AM »

Dont get me wrong guys, I love my current Contender .222 carbine. She's a tack driver but it didnt shoot like that right from the get go. It took a lot of tinkering with the forearm and a lot of load development. My only gripe is that when I take the forearm off and the barrel off the reciever for a good cleaning, I have to completely sight the gun back in. Anyone else have that problem? I was thinking of getting a torque wrench so I could snug the srews down to a consistent pressure every time.

Bullseye · « **Reply #28 on:** February 27, 2004, 04:31:24 PM »

Never had that problem lakota. That is a new on me, interesting to see what some others say.

muslmutt · « **Reply #29 on:** February 29, 2004, 11:44:39 AM »

I have had a lot of t/c stuff most shot pretty good groups. I have yet to find one that did not like speer tnt bullets, or at least prefer them. As for the forearm removal problem, I too have experienced this. I also considered a inch/ lb torque wrench, instead I put a wittness mark on the forearm to line up the screw. Worked like a charm, it's a lot cheaper too.