Author Topic: On the hunt for a 24 O/U  (Read 2357 times)

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Offline Sierra Sherpa

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On the hunt for a 24 O/U
« on: March 27, 2012, 08:51:51 AM »
Hi folks,
Now that I've got my Handi .45-70 single-shot in hand, I'd like to join the Savage Model 24 crowd.  Been perusing online to get educated some on the gun, liked what I've read mostly.  Locally, there's a 24S in .22 mag/20 ga. going for $450.  It has the action release in front of the trigger guard and barrel selector on the hammer.  It's a bit plain and I've considered offering a little-used, scoped Marlin 60 and $100 in trade but haven't pulled the trigger on this yet.  What I would ideally like to find is a 24V in .30-30/20 ga.  After reading everything I can find on the gun, I'm still not quite clear on when (manufactured year) Savage went from welding barrels together (monoblock?) to separating them.  Does anyone know for sure?  I'll also try and avoid the comparatively fragile side lever barrel selector, but would be willing to put up with the heftier plastic stock models -- circa 1990s and 2000s -- if those shoot well and to the same POA.  When did Savage actually drop the Model 24?
Finally, I know the Model 42 is coming out this year.  Sounds like it's gonna be priced right about where all the used 24s I've seen are selling for.  Doesn't look like it's available in the set-up I want for deer/grouse hunting in the Sierras, but I'm hoping they'll get around to that.  Sure, it's butt ugly.  On the other hand, I got rid of a gorgeous 7X57 Ruger No. 1 light sporter that strung shots so badly I dubbed it my "giraffe gun" and have come to think that "pretty is as pretty does," especially when it comes to shooting irons.  If the 42 is a shooter, and I know it's got separated barrels that some say compromise accuracy, do you think it's worth waiting for Savage to get around to making one in .30-30/20 ga.?  Appreciate any help on this.

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: On the hunt for a 24 O/U
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2012, 01:44:10 PM »
  The only Savage you can buy and know that both bbls will both shoot to the same POA, is the Savage 2400...  On ALL others, you have to "buy and try"...  I've yet to buy one that both bbls. shot to the same POA, no matter what year it was made, others have found a few that did.
 
  DM

Offline dougk

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Re: On the hunt for a 24 O/U
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2012, 02:45:56 PM »
I know the Staggs Bilt is available in 20/30-30.  I really like mine.  It is light and aims very nicely.

there are currently 5 for sale on GB http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=staggs

If you have any questions about the Staggs Bilt please let me know.

Doug

Offline Sierra Sherpa

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Re: On the hunt for a 24 O/U
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2012, 09:07:35 PM »
Thanks Drilling Man and dougk for the advice.  Both guns are a little out of my budget right now.  And, truth be known, I've taken a shine to the Model 24.  At an MSRP of $450-ish is it out of the question to presume the Model 42 will not be well regulated, barrelwise?  Would Savage risk shooters' wrath and derision with such an offering?  Seems better to not even build a gun nowadays than to build a gun the shooting press and public would hammer from day one.  I've been wrong about other things before, though.
I have read posts about Savage 24 barrels shooting close enough to POA to serve as suitable hunting guns.  I'll try and find them.

Offline Drilling Man

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Re: On the hunt for a 24 O/U
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2012, 03:09:16 AM »
  Savage has been building combo guns that both bbls don't shoot to the same POA for many many years, and guys keep buying them.  Why would they change now?
 
  I can't tell you how many times someone has told me, "it's only a few inches off, i just use Kentucky windage and shoot"...  Personally, i don't like to have to "aim over here, to hit over there" but that doesn't seem to bother some folks and that's why the guns sell. 
 
  If i have to use a Savage combo gun, make mine a Savage 2400 please...  lol
 
  DM

Offline Sierra Sherpa

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Re: On the hunt for a 24 O/U
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2012, 04:09:26 PM »
Drilling Man's arguments and penchant for the 2400 notwithstanding, here's an interesting thread on the Model 24.  Perhaps there is still hope for finding a good one?
http://plainsmanscabin.yuku.com/topic/4156

Offline Sierra Sherpa

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Re: On the hunt for a 24 O/U
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 05:55:45 PM »
Not exactly what I'm looking for, but I've got a bead on two 24s:  a 24S w/.22 mag over 20 ga. and a 24F w/.17 HMR over 12 ga.  I'm wanting to get my feet wet with the 24 but can't quite decide on the practicality of one over the either, or maybe just hang on to my coin and try and find the .30-30/20 ga. I started looking for.  I'm not really familiar with the hunting uses of the .17 HMR.  Does anyone have helpful comments on this choice?  Also, how common is the .17 HMR offering in the Savage 24?  Haven't seen many references to it?  Does this gun have any added value?  Thanks.

Offline Nudge6771

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Re: On the hunt for a 24 O/U
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2012, 08:35:47 AM »
Sierra Sherpa,

Congratulations on acquiring the Savage 24 'bug'!  Your interest, and reasoning, are well founded.  I own 2 of these beauties, and have been a part of the little Savage 24 "community" (and it is one!) for quite some time.

But there are a few things you need to know which will help you along the way.  There are some unfair criticisms, and some fair ones, when it comes to 24's...so you need to know what you're buying.

First a little history...

The Stevens .22/.410 combo gun ran from 1939-1949.  Stevens was owned buy Savage going back to the 1920's, but operated as it's own company, building guns under it's own name.  In 1950, Savage decided to re-brand the model under the Savage name, and started calling it the Savage Model 24 from then onward.

The original guns are quite pretty, featuring case-hardened receivers and fully seemed barrels, which shot very well.  The ONLY drawback to these guns was the receiver-side button barrel selector, which was a design flaw from the beginning, about which many, many people will complain to this day.

The side button remained in production through the 1963 model year, after which it was moved to the center top of the hammer, where it remained for the rest of it's production years.  The hammer top selector was a huge improvement, and has always worked perfectly fine.

In 1971, Savage made the dubious decision to separate the barrels, undoubtedly because of cost of production.

** A side note on separated barrels.  Given all rifle barrels have "whip," no matter what the caliber, separated barrels require special regulation to make them shoot straight.  This is just fine in higher end guns like the 2400, Valmet, and even Baikal's of certain lineage, as these are higher grade guns of better manufacture.  But Savage ALWAYS presented the 24 as a working gun, and as such wanted to change a working man's price.  Unfortunately, this means that people typically found difficulty in getting the barrels to group together...a common complaint you will hear from people who own these post-'71 guns.  Unfortunately, most of those who will loudly say this, are either unaware of the earlier guns, or presume that the older models perform the same...WHICH THEY DON'T.

My first gun was a Model 24-C, called the "Camper's Companion."  It is the only Model 24 ever to NOT be made with 24 inch barrels, but instead had 20 inch barrels.  The 24-C was offered in the 1970's, and as such had the separated barrels...and while I loved the gun because it was handy, and MINE...the damn little thing didn't shoot too straight.

OK, so fast forward to what I DO own...and what I think you ought to know.  The 1964-1971 guns were a period that featured the BEST of both of the primary features of these guns -- fully connected barrels, AND hammer top barrel selectors.  As such in these years you get exactly what you're wanting in terms of great shooting and problem-free operation.

Mine are both .22lr / 20 gauge (I kind of frown on .410's as being too weak for anything other than a boy's first "toy" gun...and one which would have frustrated him!).  They are both Model 24 J-DL, denoting their "deluxe" stock and trim:  raised MonteCarlo cheek piece, nicer grade of wood, and nicer receiver finish.

I would strongly suggest that IF you want a 24, you consider holding out (they aren't THAT hard to find) for any of the 24 DL (E-DL through J-DL) or 24 S models from this era.  The "S" model featured the same seemed barrels and selector, just were more plain looking, and had a push down break action on the right side of the receiver, instead of the DL's tang top paddle lever.

So, 1964-1970 for the "DL" variations, and 1964-1971 for the "S" variations.

Get very familiar with how they work, buy a Radocy take-down guide and schematic, and buy yourself plenty of spare plungers, springs, and pins of each type from Numrich in Kingston, NY.  Because you WILL want to shoot it alot, and they aren't making any more 45+ year old spare parts!

One more thing.  This standard elevator rear sight which came on these guns was never good.  So be on the lookout for any of the 4 after-market (and ONLY these 4) sights you could install.  With them, these are totally different guns.

Redfield RE-24 is the absolute BEST, but very hard to find, and expensive when you do.  It included a front sight riser in the box, and the sight itself mounted to the dovetail groove on the receiver, so NO D&T work.

Williams WGRS 24 is the other no D&T option.

The there are the Lyman 53D, and the Williams 5D-24 (which is NOT the standard 5D, which doesn't fit).  Both of these require drilling and tapping.

You CAN mount a scope, despite what it says right on the barrel...but you need a GOOD mount.  Scope mounts have come a long way in these decades since, and the BKL Technologies 260 MB has served me well on one of my guns (the other wears a Redfield RE-24).  The BKL mount has NOT loosened or lost a zero after firing tons of 3inch shotshell and slugs...the .22lr is still spot on @ 50 yards.

Oh one more thing.  You mentioned the 30-30 /20ga specifically.  This gun was called the 24 V (offered also with .222 Rem. /20ga), and was ONLY offered in years when the barrels were separated.  Some guys love em, and they were built a little more robust than the rimfire models...so maybe they regulate better.  I wouldn't know, having never owned one.  They certainly go for a pretty penny, I can tell you that!

Peruse savage24.com for lots of good information, as well as how to date pre-1968 models with no serial numbers.

Good luck! :)

Offline Sierra Sherpa

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Re: On the hunt for a 24 O/U
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2012, 07:21:44 AM »
Wow, thanks Nudge!  I've been offline for a while, but still checking locally.  The little .22mag/20 ga. sold and I haven't been back to the store to see if the .17HMR/12 ga. is still there, but have decided to try and find a .30-30/20 ga. or 223(222)/20 ga. even if it takes a bit longer.  Really appreciate all the good info you and others have helped out with.  Take care.

Offline Nudge6771

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Re: On the hunt for a 24 O/U
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2012, 07:41:45 AM »
No problem, I love these guns...their utility and simplicity.  You will too.  I do see 30-30/20's here and there on Gunbroker and GunsAmerica, but they are often in the $700 asking range.  In fact ALL 24's have been getting both scarce and bid up in the last 2 years like crazy.  You can do your own math as to why that might be...

Also, I CAN'T stress enough that you have to visit savage24.com.  There is a wealth of information on fixes for things, how to date old guns, etc there.  And there is a forum as well (not as nearly as nice in terms of format, as go2gbo is...but the guys on there are VERY knowledgable.

Offline Sierra Sherpa

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Re: On the hunt for a 24 O/U
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2012, 08:23:48 PM »
Nudge,
 
It was interesting to learn on Savage24.com that the 1990 and 2000 Savage catalogs show a Model 24F offered in centerfire -- .22 Hornet, .223 and .30-30 -- calibers with either 20 or 12 ga. barrels.  So that must have replaced the 24V version, I'm guessing, produced in earlier years.
 
Also, as another interesting aside, I still can't find a listing of the 17HMR/12 ga. gun I found locally.  Anyone got info on that?  It must be a later model as it has a synthetic, non-wood stock and, if I recall correctly, was another F version but the website only had catalogs to 2000.
 
I agree, their forum is informative but comparatively crude next to go2gbo.
 

Offline Nudge6771

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Re: On the hunt for a 24 O/U
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2012, 04:35:13 AM »
I don't know if the 24F (and also the rarer 24T) were meant to be direct descendants of the 24V, but I can definitely see why you'd think that, being that the 24V was the only 24 variation which had previously offered center-fire versions (.222 Rem and .30-30).

I have only ever run across a couple .17 HMR guns, and don't recall whether they were 20ga or 12ga on the bottom.  I also don't know their years of production, but I can tell you they were indeed a later production gun that came in the years with synthetic stocks only.  I have a number of Savage catalogs (reprints from Cornell Publishing) dating from 1946 through 1980, so I can track the variations from year to year myself with these.  But I don't know as much about the newer guns that came with synthetic stocks.  I mentioned the 24T, and I know one of the key features of that one is it came in camo color, and I BELIEVE a tighter turkey-appropriate choke (hence the "T").

As I said, there are many guys on there who have a wealth of knowledge about FIXING 24's.  But there is one guy in particular on that forum who knows more about the HISTORY of them than probably anyone else.  His site handle is odell23, and if you go to the very bottom of the forum page there is a search window on the lefthand side.  Plug his handle into it, or try searching things like "history" or "calibers" and you will see some very long, detailed posts he's put up about it all.

He has stated many times that he has been working on a book about Savage 24's for a while, and here and there he mentions that it's coming along.

I don't even know his real name, but he seems like a nice guy, and generally answers direct questions from people.

Here is just one of his many informative posts: -->  http://disc.yourwebapps.com/discussion.cgi?disc=180203;article=37351;title=Savage%2024%20Discussion%20Board;pagemark=400