Author Topic: Got my new/old CVA Mountain Rifle today (Pics Added) (Read 2398 times)

BE Wild Willy · « **on:** March 30, 2012, 07:50:54 PM »

Hello Gents,

I've been eagerly anticipating the arrival of what is to be my new roundball gun, an older MR I purchased off of GB. Well it showed up today and I'm very pleased thus far. I'll try to get some pics up tomorrow, ran out of light today before I could snap some. The gun is in great shape overall, no Made in USA or Spain on the barrel, and the bore looks very nice. Only markings on the browned barrel are Connecticut Valley Arms Inc., Black Powder Only .50 cal., and the serial number 00770xx. Lock is a tiny little thing that is case colored with Spain marked inside. Stock is in great shape with a pewter forearm cap, and I believe that it's maple. Escutcheons, wedges, and 4 screw patchbox are German silver. Hex ramrod ferrules, butt plate, and trigger guard are browned like the barrel and rear sight. Ramrod looks original with both ends, that are pinned, appearing to be GS also.The only downside is that the clean out screw on the drum is a little buggered doesn't seem to want to budge. And the nipple is a little mushroomed and feels a little funny the last 32nd of an inch when you snug it down. I'm going to replace the nipple, what is the proper size and type? Any suggestions on getting that rascally screw out? Once I've addressed these two items it's off to the range, I can't wait. Any comments or info about my new smokepole will be greatly appreciated.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #1 on:** March 31, 2012, 03:49:10 AM »

The clean out screw really isn't necessary, few originals had them, but if you just can't abide the ugliness of a buggered screw head I'd remove the nipple, squirt a few shots of penetrating oil into the drum and let if sit drum side down for a day or two. If that doesn't loosen it then remove the barrel and heat the screw head with a torch, that should break it loose. I don't know the nipple size of the old CVA's but if you call Track of the Wolf I'd bet they can provide the correct nipple. Some previous owner may have installed an incorrect nipple which may explain the "funny" feel when you snug it down. The metric 6x.75mm is very similar to our 1/4x28 and will often seem to fit for the first few threads but 6mm is smaller and the thread pitch is just slightly different so examine the female threads closely for damage, you sure don't want a nipple to blow out.

Ladobe · « **Reply #2 on:** April 01, 2012, 09:32:36 AM »

It will be a great shooters for you, congrats on getting it. My early "USA" 45MR is the most accurate shooter of all the traditional muzzies I've ever owned (a lot of them). Why while I have sold most of the rest it still lives with me.

Your MR would be a transitional rifle of about 1978/9 vintage. IOW has some parts from the earlier MR's that they used during the transition. Your serial number is after the Made in USA barrels (that ran into the 60,000's by 1977), but it still has a 1:66 RB barrel. It also has the patch box of the earlier MR's... by 78/79 PB's were 2 screw and a different shape; and it has the earlier hex RR ferrules that changed to round by then. Stocks were still maple then, became just select hardwood later and later yet fancy walnut.

Even without the USA barrel I'm sure you will find it to be a very good shooter for you.

CVA's recommended loads for it (although it will shoot FFFG very well and cleaner). It deseves to be fed only real black powder IMO.

.50 RIFLE .490 ROUND BALL .015 PATCH 50 FFG-100 FFG
.50 RIFLE .500 CONICAL NONE 50 FFG-100 FFG

Enjoy.

BE Wild Willy · « **Reply #3 on:** April 01, 2012, 12:22:11 PM »

Thanks Ladobe,

A quick question if you have the time. My non-USA marked barrel has a prominently recessed crown. The gentleman that I purchased through has one that he bought new '79/'80 and is marked Spain. His does not have the recessed crown, does your USA marked barrel have this feature? Rumors abound on who made these barrels, just curious is yours is like mine.

Rock Home Isle · « **Reply #4 on:** April 01, 2012, 02:12:00 PM »

okay...I'm Done Waiten...where are the Pictures?

BE Wild Willy · « **Reply #5 on:** April 01, 2012, 03:21:53 PM »

By popular demand, hastily taken, but here you go...

Ladobe · « **Reply #6 on:** April 01, 2012, 03:47:32 PM »

Opps! See you posted pictures (I started my reply a couple of hours ago but had company show up and just got to finishing it).

Guess it depends on your definition of a recessed crown. IMO the MR's do not have a recessed crown. TC did offer the QLA barrel for years that in use worked like the old original rifles that had removable false muzzles to align the projectile for loading, and to protect the crown when loading or cleaning. Never had a TC QLA myself, so I don't know how deep in the bore the crown on them is.

Too far in the back of the safe to get my Hawken switch barrel out for another 45 barrel, but here's the crowns on my 45 MR and 54 Renegade, and I don't call either recessed.

Speculation runs very high on who made the MR barrels - opens a big can of worms that will bring on the opinions. Douglas, Sharon and others have been sworn to by folks who continually pass on hearsay but have no proof.

Steve Chapman lived 1/4 mile from, knew and spent a lot of time in Don Kammerer's shop and shooting with him. So who's Don... the gent who built the prototype MR for CVA's Dave Silk (CVA Pres), went to Spain many times with him to teach them how to make a barrel properly by them watching and working with him making them. He also had a CVA employee work in his shop for about a year to learn the craft "his way" (who later went to Lyman and was instrumental in developing their GPR). Yes the prototype MR had a Douglas barrel, because Don was a huge Douglas barrel fan. And possibly some of the few early custom MR's that have turned up over the years have them as well from just before Douglas got out of the business. But Don never touted the production MR's as having Douglas or Sharon or US made barrels. Lends to none of the production MR barrels being made by US makers... they were all made in Spain whether they have proof marks or not. Maybe early on by Santa Barbara who also made their BP revolvers, belt/boot pistols, etc. In Steve's opinion those with Made in USA on them are Spanish made barrels, period. I communicated with Steve several times about it all 4 years ago (Don had passed on years before or I would have ran him down). I tend to believe Steve far more than the hearsay - he was there. Besides, I've seen early non USA marked barrels shoot just as good as marked ones. So I imagine many keep the rumors alive for ego and/or to keep the value of USA MR's higher. No doubt down the road CVA had a bunch of problems with Spanish barrels with BPI/Bergara in the mix though.

BE Wild Willy · « **Reply #7 on:** April 01, 2012, 05:12:04 PM »

Thanks again Ladobe,

I guess recessed crown may not have been the most accurate way to describe the muzzle, how about strongly beveled. Your .45 MR muzzle definitely appears more beveled than the TC's, but not quite as much as my new .50 MR. Should be nice for loading the PRBs this gun is intended to shoot. I'll be picking up a new nipple tomorrow, can't wait to give her a try. The only BP I have is some Goex Express FFFg, thinking I'll start out at 45-50 grs. Would like a nice light load for punchin' paper, will experiment with some heavier loads for huntin' down the road.

The main reason I opted for the CVA, instead of T/C or Lyman, was the comments I read in old posts on the Muzzleloading Forum, including the ones by Mr. Chapman. This in turn lead me to this forum, along with your comments, and those of others. Isn't the internet a wonderful and potentially wallet lightening tool?

Well the proof will be in the puddin' so they say. Hopefully the next pics I post will be of some impressive groups.

Ladobe · « **Reply #8 on:** April 01, 2012, 08:37:27 PM »

For target shooting the range can help dictate loads. The primitive matches I shot with my freetrappers group were not overly long ranges, most the longest target no longer than 60-70 yards, so my loads could be as low as 15-20 of 3F in a 45 or 50, never more than 40. I even shiot a 54 with only 15 of 2F sometimes and didn't give up anything for those matches. Not the same as shooting paper for groups maybe, but some of the gongs/spinners/chains/etc were pretty small, as was cutting playing cards on edge. I did up the loads when shooting card corners/etc though. Some of those matches were won by only a 1/16" difference. Just comes down to knowing your rifle with a wide range of loads and you don't have to fiddle with sights for different ranges or targets.

Have fun tomorrow with your MR.

Rock Home Isle · « **Reply #9 on:** April 02, 2012, 01:50:31 AM »

That is a beautiful looking firearm there BE Wild Willy.

The ram-rod even looks to be original. I haven't seen a CVA with the original ram-rod in decades.

BE Wild Willy · « **Reply #10 on:** April 02, 2012, 02:17:12 PM »

Thanks RHI,

It really is in pretty nice shape, hoping it's a shooter. Unable to give her a try today but did manage to pick up a new nipple. Tomorrow's another day...

Swampman · « **Reply #11 on:** April 02, 2012, 02:21:45 PM »

I've always wanted one of those.

BE Wild Willy · « **Reply #12 on:** April 02, 2012, 04:52:19 PM »

I had originally purchased a T/C Hawken in .45 cal. off of GB with a supposedly excellent bore and minor handling marks. The bore was actually badly pitted and I sent the gun back for a refund (had to eat the shipping though). Having to work with a $300 dollar budget I came across this gun, opted for it instead of a T/C or Lyman. Hoping I did alright.

Ladobe · « **Reply #13 on:** April 02, 2012, 06:39:48 PM »

"I've always wanted one of those."
All it takes is money Mark.

"Hoping I did alright."
Not to worry, you did right and WILL love the rifle.

Ron T. · « **Reply #14 on:** April 03, 2012, 03:24:42 AM »

I didn't read the other posts because I wanted to get my post written as soon as possible.

Before you shoot your "new/old" rifle, remove and replace that questionable nipple with a new nipple that SOLIDLY screws all the way down in the threaded nipple hole!!!

I say this because I had a similar situation with an older .50 caliber CVA Hawken I bought (used), but I didn't replace the nipple because it still SEEMED usable. I was shooting it, using some lighter target loads (47 grains of Swiss FFFg), at my club's rifle range when the nipple "let go" and when I fired the rifle, the nipple came flying out of it's threaded hole and, luckily, passed over my head and embedded itself in the wood of the out-building a few feet behind my shooting position.

Had it's path been a few inches lower, it would have embedded itself in my HEAD... with possibly fatal results!~!~!

'Nuff said?

Please change that nipple and make SURE it screws ALL THE WAY DOWN into it's threaded hole.

Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

spooked · « **Reply #15 on:** April 03, 2012, 08:32:33 AM »

Recently parted with a very nice CVA, great bore, nice overall..needed the bucks

.50 cal with original ramrod..it wuz it or my Cherokee an that ain't happenin'

BE Wild Willy · « **Reply #16 on:** April 03, 2012, 09:05:49 AM »

Quote from: Ron T. on April 03, 2012, 03:24:42 AM

Please change that nipple and make SURE it screws ALL THE WAY DOWN into it's threaded hole.

Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Thanks Ron,

I replaced the nipple last night and everything seemed OK and the threads on the new nipple appeared slightly different. Threaded in much more securely than the existing one, I have a suspicion that the one that was in there wasn't the right size. I'm still a little apprehensive because of this but the new (6x1) grabbed nicely. My intention is to shoot in the next couple of hours, pray for Willy...

BE Wild Willy · « **Reply #17 on:** April 03, 2012, 04:13:38 PM »

Well my prayers were answered in more ways than one.

First off, no issues with the replaced nipple at all.

Secondly, the gun is a great shooter. Shot 1"-1-1/2" groups point of aim at 50 yards consistently, even in 15-20 mph winds off a folding camp table. Would have been able to do the same at 75 yards except I would inevitably pull one shot. At this point I have only shot one loading, .490 handcast RB, 50 gr. Goex Express 3fff, .015 spit patch, and RWS primers.

Eager to shoot more combinations and better targets, some that I can post for my ever growing ego.

Thanks again for your input which steered me in the direction of the MR...BEWW

Ladobe · « **Reply #18 on:** April 03, 2012, 08:54:45 PM »

Quote from: spooked on April 03, 2012, 08:32:33 AM

Recently parted with a very nice CVA, great bore, nice overall..needed the bucks .50 cal with original ramrod..it wuz it or my Cherokee an that ain't happenin'

Had no problem at all parting with my 2 TC Cherokee's, 2 Seneca's, a couple of my Hawken's and a Renegade; nor a couple of early CVA Squirrels, an early Kentucky, the Philly or even the Siber that was the best pistola they ever imported and was heads higher than those from others... mainly 'cause I kept the Mountian Rifle. None of them could match it shooting, not even close except the Siber, simple as that. Did keep my TC Hawken 3 barrel both lock switcher, and a Renegade too though (so far, but they are the next to go). So I went from 15 very serviceable traditional's to 3 over the last three years or so, but the MR will be the last to go.

Spanky · « **Reply #19 on:** April 04, 2012, 03:59:07 AM »

Whooooeeeeeee.....she's a beauty.

Spanky

spooked · « **Reply #20 on:** April 04, 2012, 10:11:43 AM »

Quote from: Ladobe on April 03, 2012, 08:54:45 PM

Quote from: spooked on April 03, 2012, 08:32:33 AM
Recently parted with a very nice CVA, great bore, nice overall..needed the bucks .50 cal with original ramrod..it wuz it or my Cherokee an that ain't happenin'

Had no problem at all parting with my 2 TC Cherokee's, 2 Seneca's, a couple of my Hawken's and a Renegade; nor a couple of early CVA Squirrels, an early Kentucky, the Philly or even the Siber that was the best pistola they ever imported and was heads higher than those from others... mainly 'cause I kept the Mountian Rifle. None of them could match it shooting, not even close except the Siber, simple as that. Did keep my TC Hawken 3 barrel both lock switcher, and a Renegade too though (so far, but they are the next to go). So I went from 15 very serviceable traditional's to 3 over the last three years or so, but the MR will be the last to go.

Might've kept mine iffin it had been a .45...

RemingtonMagnum · « **Reply #21 on:** April 05, 2012, 01:53:36 AM »

Hi Friends

I could tell you how nice it looks but you already know that fact. May you enjoy your rifle as much and in the way I have for so many years. It will serve you well and be a good friend.

Don Jackson Remington Magnum/Ultramag

BE Wild Willy · « **Reply #22 on:** April 05, 2012, 07:26:32 AM »

Thanks Don...

lakota · « **Reply #23 on:** April 05, 2012, 04:45:49 PM »

I may have a nipple that will fit if you want an extra. I will look through my parts box and if I have one its yours if you want it for an extra. I had to sell my Mountain Rifle a few years ago because I was short on cash. I wanted to find another but I got hooked on flint pretty bad so I probably wont go back to caplocks. I think those mountain rifles are some of the best feeling production guns out there.

BE Wild Willy · « **Reply #24 on:** April 05, 2012, 06:29:17 PM »

That's a very kind offer lakota, thank you for making it. Don't go through any hassles trying to find it, but if you do let me know. The only replacement nipple I could find for my gun locally was a Traditions, not my first choice, but to tight and impatient to mail order a good one yet.

I know how it is being "short on cash", the only way I can make any purchases nowadays is by selling something first. I must say that my curiosity of flints has been hindered by the lack of funds. I'm planning on going to my first traditional shoot at a local club the third weekend of this month. Maybe I'll get my first chance to shoot a rocklock then, hoping that it won't lead to another sale.

lakota · « **Reply #25 on:** April 06, 2012, 05:52:41 AM »

I thought I had one new in a package but I didnt find it. I did find one loose in my parts box. I have had a few different caplocks so there is no telling what it was for but if you want to try it PM me your address and I'll put in an envelope. It looks like it has seen some use but its not beat up bad or mushroomed.

I got the deal of a lifetime on a TVM flintlockTennessee rifle from a guy who said he just didnt like the feel of the rifle. I love that gun.

Stay away from those rock locks unless you want to buy another gun!

BE Wild Willy · « **Reply #26 on:** April 06, 2012, 04:26:24 PM »

Thanks again lakota for the kind offer. I'll probably just pass on it though, might not be worth the cost of sending it.

I'm fearing that I'll catch the bug when I go to the shoot. Just what I need, another sickness.

BE Wild Willy · « **Reply #27 on:** April 17, 2012, 01:14:55 PM »

Been experimenting with some loads, here's a couple of targets shot from my tailgate at 50yds.