45 Carbine to 454?

[AtlLaw]

To ream, or not to ream, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to ream the
Handy Classic Carbine to 454Casull and suffer
The Slings and Arrows of outrageous recoil,
Or to maintain the 45 Colt against a Sea of Magnumitis,
And by opposing the urge to die in normality, to sleep
No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
The heart-ache of indecision, and embrace
the thousand natural recoils that flesh is heir to?

[dpe.ahoy]

Dang!  Richard, talk about waxing poetic!    You have some firearms that are not strong enough to to take Ruger level or higher pressures, if I remember correctly.  In your case, I would say to do it to keep from mixing up the higher pressure loads in one of your other firearms.  Now nothin says ya gotta load em up to full pressure to have some fun.    Had about all the fun you can handle with the 45-120?    DP

[AtlLaw]

I would say to do it to keep from mixing up the higher pressure loads in one of your other firearms.

Hey DP!
 
That's just what I was looking for!  A real reason to ream the 45 out!     I've already got a bunch of loads marked "For Handi Rifle ONLY!!"  I'd hate to try one in my Win '73 or SAA's !   
 
As I was saying to Tim when I asked him his thoughts, it seems to me that most of the Casull's increase in performance over the Colt is in the higher operating pressure, not the itti bitti increase in case length.
 
The 45-120 is still my child but I have a lot of work to do on it.      Not to mention the fact that I didn't get to the range hardly at all last year.   
 
I just figured the Colt would fill the lower range of my 45 family well, for 250 gr bullets.  Then I have the 45-70 (in Carbine furnature) for 300 - 350 gr bullets and the 45-120 for the 450 -550 gr bullet range.      Wait ...    Did I just see a gap!?   
 
Looks like I need a 45-90 for the 405's!   
 
Then there's the 50-70, 50-90 and 50-140!      But I got to see how Tim makes out with the 499 Hubel  first!   

[tacklebury]

I'm leaving mine.  Works great with pistol loads, but better with Paco Kelley's levergun loads.  I'm getting around 1800 FPS with a 300 gr. XTP magnum.  It's got a heck of a bang, but minimal hurt on the shoulder.  I don't even need a pad for hunting with the curved buttstock.    Might check em out.  I'm using Reloader7 personally, because I already use it in my .45-70, 30-40 krag, 7.5x55 swiss and .223 loads. 
 
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm

[yukondog]

Ream it, I did mine and it shot real nice, but with a bad shoulder had to down load it some, then in a moment of stupidity sold it to dave29.

[Dinny]

I say - leave it as is. I had mine throated and now I'm getting Casull performance with heavy cast bullets.


The Colt is a Classic!


Thanks, Dinny

[petemi]

I agree with Dinny (Why am I always doing that? ).  It is a classic as is the .45-70.  I"m leaving mine alone.  The modern calibers I have, the .445, .357 Max etc. fill the niche.  No need for a .454........Unless I get a second .45LC

Pete

[bikerbeans]

Throating is for folks who can't make up their mind what cartridge they want to shoot.     If you are going to pull the extractor and grind away on your chamber might as well go for broke.  460 S&W.
 
BB

[Jason F]

Thats what i am doing to the one i got coming in mail. 460 s&w 

[mechanic]

45 is red
454 is purple
but not as bad as your shoulder with the 499 huble
 
You only live once might as well ream 'er
I'm talking about the rifle,  can't you see sir.
 
I failed poetry...fancy that.
 
Ben

[Dinny]

I agree with Dinny (Why am I always doing that? ). 
Pete

Great minds think alike.    Either that or I'm wise beyond my years. 


Thanks, Dinny

[Irongoat]

500 Magnum don't need no stinking reaming.

http://irongoatguns.com/NFA/sw500.jpg

[Doublebass73]

Leave it a 45 Colt, 300 grains at 1800 fps does not need to be magnumized.

[mcwoodduck]

Richard,
Since you have 45 Colt SAA type guns and you reload......
I say if you want a hot 45 Colt that you ream and load the 454 cases with the hot loads.
That way someone does not load a hot 45 Colt into one of your SAA type guns and someone gets hurt.
I am not talking about you or your friends but 30 to 50 years down the road when a grandkid or great grandkid is out shooting your stuff when you are no longer around to explain what is a hot load and what is not, and what can and can NOT go into your SAA.
It is a simple safety issue if you have to have a Magnum 45 Colt.  Or just have 45 Colt handguns that can handle the hot loads.
 
Love the paraphrasing of Shakespear.
 

[bikerbeans]

500 Magnum don't need no stinking reaming.

http://irongoatguns.com/NFA/sw500.jpg

Some folks find the 500 S&W Mag in a Handi to be a bit whimpy.
 
http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,251280.0.html

[petemi]

Some folks find the 500 S&W Mag in a Handi to be a bit whimpy.
 

That's why God created Ben Gay and Ibuprofen .....to help those poor half-witted souls.

Pete

[cwlongshot]

Richard,
Since you have 45 Colt SAA type guns and you reload......
I say if you want a hot 45 Colt that you ream and load the 454 cases with the hot loads.
That way someone does not load a hot 45 Colt into one of your SAA type guns and someone gets hurt.
I am not talking about you or your friends but 30 to 50 years down the road when a grandkid or great grandkid is out shooting your stuff when you are no longer around to explain what is a hot load and what is not, and what can and can NOT go into your SAA.
It is a simple safety issue if you have to have a Magnum 45 Colt.  Or just have 45 Colt handguns that can handle the hot loads.
 
Love the paraphrasing of Shakespear.

Richard,
 You know I reamed mine and the above reasons and the intro of the FTX bullets are the reason.   I have a "small" amount invested in SAA Colts and having one of them come apart would put a tear in my eye.

My 454 shoots just as good if not better than it did as a STD Colt. I LOVE IT! Its a GREAT nitch filler, will do what lighter to med 45/70 loads will, will do ALL what the 45 Colt did. I dont puch mine anywhere near what its able to do. Thats fine by me, I no longer have to be conserned about hot possible SAA grenading loads making into a fine old colt. Its a NO BRAINER to me.

What I WILL admit is I bought a second barrel in 45COLT and will leave this one as is.

If we where closer, I would let you take mine and shoot a bit to convince you you NEED one of them! You may not need all the HP its able of producing but so what! It's like having TOO much $$, a rough problem to have.

CW

[bikerbeans]

Some folks find the 500 S&W Mag in a Handi to be a bit whimpy.
 

That's why God created Ben Gay and Ibuprofen .....to help those poor half-witted souls.

Pete

I think Tim prefer's his lead sled over taking pain pills.
 
BB

[Irongoat]

Me?  I like "whimpy" to shoot.  I can't imagine anything or anyone on the receiving end of that 600 grain plus slug saying, " That all you got?"

[AtlLaw]

Well, I went back and forth on this issue with every post I read.     I'm nothing if not indecisive!   
 
So I boiled each post down to their essence to make it easier for me to understand the consensus.  Here are the "do it's!"
 
YES

Ream it, I did mine and it shot real nice,

might as well ream 'er

Seemed to me to be sort of "damning with faint praise...    Now for the "don't do it's"
 
NO

I'm leaving mine.  ... 1800 FPS with a 300 gr. XTP magnum.

Leave it a 45 Colt,

leave it as is. ... I'm getting Casull performance with heavy cast bullets.

Here it seems we have the "it's not necessary for performance" thought.  Kind of what I was thinking on the pressure over powder space argument.
 
Then there are those with a "NO," qualified with the ubiquitous "Hi-ebber!"   
 
DEPENDS
 

I"m leaving mine alone. ... No need for a .454........Unless I get a second .45LC

I bought a second barrel in 45COLT and will leave this one as is.

Finally we had the always vocal bigger is better group!   
 
THE 454 IS FOR WIMPS!
 

500 Magnum don't need no stinking reaming.

460 s&w 

might as well go for broke.  460 S&W.

That, I think, would be the preferred solution.  But I don't think I'll find another Carbine for $199.95!     So that option is out.   
 
Then these posts put things in perspective and really got me thinking.
 
LOOK AT IT THIS WAY...
 

Richard,
Since you have 45 Colt SAA type guns and you reload......
I say if you want a hot 45 Colt that you ream and load the 454 cases with the hot loads.
That way someone does not load a hot 45 Colt into one of your SAA type guns and someone gets hurt.
I am not talking about you or your friends but 30 to 50 years down the road when a grandkid or great grandkid is out shooting your stuff when you are no longer around to explain what is a hot load and what is not, and what can and can NOT go into your SAA.
It is a simple safety issue if you have to have a Magnum 45 Colt.  Or just have 45 Colt handguns that can handle the hot loads.

Richard,
You know I reamed mine and the above reasons (see McWoodDuck's Post) and the intro of the FTX bullets are the reason.   I have a "small" amount invested in SAA Colts and having one of them come apart would put a tear in my eye.

My 454 shoots just as good if not better than it did as a STD Colt. I LOVE IT! Its a GREAT niche filler, will do what lighter to med 45/70 loads will, will do ALL what the 45 Colt did. I don't push mine anywhere near what its able to do. That's fine by me, I no longer have to be concerned about hot possible SAA grenading loads making into a fine old colt. Its a NO BRAINER to me.

It seems that if I were to go with the majority I would just bypass the 454 for the 460!  BTW, Tim, noticeably absent from this thread,    told me he reamed his out to 460 S&W but he also has another carbine he is leaving as a 45 Colt.  Leave it to him to be one step ahead of everone else with the best of both worlds!   
 
But as far as the 460 and the like is concerned, shoot! I got me a 45-70 for that!  So I says to myself, self... you know you will just have to shoot some "hot" 45 Colt rounds outa that Handi, and the real issue is keeping them out of a SAA pistol or toggle-link rifle!
 
So, as was said, it's a no brainer.  Ream the barrel and load all ammo for the rifle in 454 brass.  That way I can still use any 45 Colt ammo I load in the Handi, but no ammo loaded for the Handi will chamber (not to mention the different headstamp) in my revolvers or toggle link rifles!
 
Now, about using 45 colt dies to load the Casull... 

[cwlongshot]

I reamed mine a short time act Timmy went 460 and we spoke about it. But to me I have a half dozen 45/70's if I want that level of performance I already have it in spades. The 460 was out on performance alone. Don't get me wrong, it's a good one and would never pupu another for having one. But for me In This case I did not need the 460.

I have loaded my 454's in three diff die sets, none are labeled 454... A newer redding set a 20 yr old RCBS set and a 30+ yr old Lyman all American set. All loaded just fine.

There are more benifits going with the cassull case too. SR primers! Better for the large volumes of pistol powder many use! I also have excellent case life at my sub 2000fps 200g FTX loadings. Accuracy is also excellent.

You can always keep a eye out for another barrel down the road. I got my second kinda by mistake. It's a good shooter as the 454 is! 

As always best of luck with it!

CW

[yukondog]

AtlLaw the 45 LC dies will work just fine for both.

[Jimbo47]

Yep, I reamed mine and never looked back.
 
If you want to shoot the mild 45 LC you can do that all day loaded within normal specs.
 
If you want to hot rod a little then you have the 454 to satisfy that itch, and have the same accuracy from both.
It didn't take much to convince me to ream it since I had reamed my .357 Mag to Max and that was a no brainer, and the 45 LC is about the same.
 
I load my 454  using my 45 LC dies also.

[quickdtoo]

Richard, I guess when it comes to rifle chamberings I'm kinda a "bigger is more fun" kinda guy, not necessarily bigger is better!! 

Tim

[Blackhawker]

Once reamed, it's done and you can't go back.  BUT, if you leave it, you can get a Buffalo Classic in 45-70 and shoot to the same performance.  I kinda think that's more fun, yet sort of keeping things traditional, I guess.