Suppressed .223 Handy-Rifle

[Irongoat]

This weekend, I tried a suppressor I built for .22 pistols on an AR-15.  The 1/2" x 28 tpi threads were the same.  I found to my pleasant surprise that it quieted the .223 PMC 55 grain FMJ to about the noise of an unsuppressed .22 rifle.  The loudest noise heard as the shooter was the bolt operation.  I even heard the click of the trigger.  It was sorta click, clang/sping, and then ting as the bullet hit the target.

Bear in mind this was a 12"-long, screw-on suppressor.  Got me to thinking about how quiet I would be able to make a .223 Handy-Rifle with a ported-barrel and a can with an expansion chamber that went all the way to the hand guard over the barrel.  It would on make the overall length only about 6" more.  If I shortened the barrel to a little over 16 inches and trimmed the hand guard, it would be about 24" from the breech to the end cap.  Gotta try it, but next project is a suppressed 20 gauge barrel that I have lying around.

[Andrew Quigley]

Hope you don't live in the USA. Making suppressors is a no-no.

[45-70.gov]

if in the USA  hope you paid your $200 bribe like i did


i took my 9mm suppressor and put it on a 357 cut to 17 inches....[shoot subsonic 38s]


scoped with a red-dot.......named it ''the possum poacher''

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Hope you don't live in the USA. Making suppressors is a no-no.

Not true

[quickdtoo]

Hope you don't live in the USA. Making suppressors is a no-no.

Not if a fella is licensed to make em, haven't ya ever watched Sons of Guns? 

Tim

Hello, everyone!  I recently built a Suppressed 500 S&W Magnum Handi-Rifle, which I believe will make a great hog gun.  With subsonic loads -- even as heavy as 617 grains, it is almost as quiet as a handclap. Just wondering if anyone here has had a similar project.  Oh, yeah.

The suppressor is registered and legal, My wife and I operate a gun store here in Quanah, Texas.  We have the Type 7 FFL with the SOT.

To see some pix and video, go to http://irongoatguns.com/NFA.html

BTW, I noted that several posters mentioned the involved break-in of these H&R barrels.  Mine is slowly getting better.

[Irongoat]

As pointed out by quickdtoo, we have the proper licenses and tax to build ANYTHING except destructive devices.  I wonder is anyone really dumb enough to come on a public forum and explicitly describe personally building and using suppressors without benefit of clergy, so to speak?

[stimpylu32]

As pointed out by quickdtoo, we have the proper licenses and tax to build ANYTHING except destructive devices. I wonder is anyone really dumb enough to come on a public forum and explicitly describe personally building and using suppressors without benefit of clergy, so to speak?

You would be surprised , some people think that just because they use a Screen-name and not their real one that the Fed's can't find them -- Remember the old adage " You can't fix stupid "
 
stimpy

[Swampman]

I just don't see the attraction of suppresors.  The have to ruin the handling of the firearm.

[geezerbiker]

As pointed out by quickdtoo, we have the proper licenses and tax to build ANYTHING except destructive devices.  I wonder is anyone really dumb enough to come on a public forum and explicitly describe personally building and using suppressors without benefit of clergy, so to speak?

I was but I was 16 at the time and I'm 54 now.  Since the statute of limitations is long up, I'll talk about it. 

Not knowing much about how a suppressor worked, I drilled rows of holes in a copper pipe for the gasses to go through.  Not having a suitable sized metal outer tube, I used a cardboard tube and I scrounged some fiberglass insulation from a junk pile at a construction site to pack it with. As I recall I used the bottom of concentrated orange juice cans for the ends.  I don't recall how I cut the holes for the copper tube to go through.  I put it all together with 5 minute epoxy glue and duct tape.   

I made a reducer bushing to fit my .22 rifle from duct tape.  It seemed to sort of work on my .22 single shot in the basement.  A couple months later I had a chance to  go out in the country and shoot an old 7.7mm Arisaka rifle that had been handed down though my family.   I got the crazy idea try the suppressor on the Arisaka.  It took only a couple more wraps of duct tape to get the reducer bushing to fit.   I fired a shot and it started to rain fiberglass insulation.  The suppressor was gone and I never did find it. 

Later on I found out how much trouble I would have gotten in if caught with such a thing and I never tried again...

Tony

[Irongoat]

Tony, all I will say is that I am certain you were not unique in your youthful indiscretion.

Regarding the handling of the firearm with a suppressor, a firearm with a suppressor is different than one without. The primary attractions for most people is the greatly reduced noise and recoil.  In most cases, increased comfort and damping of barrel vibrations mean better scores or kill percentages. More bulk and weight?  Yep, but some people seem to like big bulky firearms.  You just have to try one to appreciate suppressors.

[geezerbiker]

I plan to pay the fees and get the license to buy a suppressor one of these days.   Would I be able to by one suppressor and use it on a couple different guns legally?

I'm too old and beat up to even think of running afoul of the ATF these days...

Tony

[Irongoat]

Short answer is , yea, you can use a suppressor on more than one gun.. Long answer is depends on threads/adapters, caliber, rating of suppressor for low/high power firearms.  Larger caliber suppressors are still pretty effective on smaller calibers, but usually require thread adapters.

Since a suppressor ALWAYS changes point of impact, each gun would almost surely have to be sighted in -- probably each time the suppressor is installed.  For accurate shooting, it is arguable that a suppressor should be dedicated to a particular firearm or vice-versa.

Strange as it may seem, stock barrels are seldom either straight or concentric, so what works on one may get baffle strikes on another.  In the real world, we often have to increase tolerances over perfect.  Bottom line is that there are variables to consider.

[tacklebury]

Typically, you need to use scopes also.  Difficult to get on irons with them, unless they are elevated versions or one mounts sights on the suppressor at front and uses an elevated rear sight.  Once again, difficult to get repeatability if you are using on multiple firearms.  Best performance is when baffles are within .005" of the bullet diameter also, so there is less pass by of gasses. 

[Irongoat]

You are correct in the desired tolerance.  However, with such small tolerances, any error in bullet path or simply alignment, and baffle strikes become much more likely.  If you add in the factor of changing firearms back and forth, such close tolerances are pretty risky.  My .22 suppressor have bores of 5/16 or about .312.

The single most important factor in suppressors is, in my opinion based on research and personal experience, volume. Put another way, according to my experimentation, a can with the greater volume will beat the smaller can in suppression, everything else being equal -- design, materials, ammo. etc.  So my scheme is to allow more room for the gas/blast to dissipate rather than to try to keep it all behind the bullet  -- impossible to accomplish once the bullet has left the rifled bore.

[geezerbiker]

What I was thinking was getting one for my .44 mag Handi and then using it on a .22 LR or Hornet as the mood strikes me... 

If I can get good suppressed accuracy from the .44 with subsonic loads, I could use to to splat ground squirrels in my brother in-law's orchards.

Tony

[45-70.gov]

why would you want to suppress a 223?


a 223 once subsonic is little more than a 22lr
other wise a 223 will give a sonic boom


i used  a 357/38 SPL....because  i already had a 9mm can
and a 44 wouldn't fit through it
the can is also detrimental to accuracy


i have been considering have another suppressor built
if i do....it will be integral with a 44mag/spl  handi barrel
[500snw or 357/38 are still a consideration]
it will appear to be a bull barreled handi
i got a price  of approx $800  couple years ago


there are some nice suppressed 10/22 rugers also
look like a bull barrel  only very light

[Irongoat]

Well, 45-70, my first post in this topic described how I put a suppressor built for a .22 long rifle pistol and it worked.  Nothing subsonic about it-- PMC 55 gr FMJ.  The sonic crack was really not all that obtrusive. None of us who have heard it shoot felt ear protection was necessary.  Behind the rifle, I mostly heard the machinery working.  So I know it can be done and better with a suppressor designed for the rifle platform.

BTW, I feel the same way about subsonic small-bore rifle shooting; what is the point for serious shooting?  A .22 short is pretty quiet out of any rifle.  If that is all the power you need, fine.

As you may or may not know, I also have a suppressed 500 S&W Magnum Handi-Rifle.  That I shoot mostly subsonic with two loads, 440 grain and 617 grain.  I doubt I could get those weights down the barrel of a lesser caliber.  You are in the ballpark on the price.

Full integral suppression usually entails a barrel ported into a long, very skinny tube and usually means the velocity of the projectile is reduced by the pressure bleed off to subsonic velocity.  I think that modest porting of the last few inches of the barrel with some dispersion of gas past the muzzle is more efficient.  Most of the velocity and more of the quiet are realized.  Volume counts.

http://irongoatguns.com/NFA.html

David

[OldSchoolRanger]

why would you want to suppress a 223?

a 223 once subsonic is little more than a 22lr
other wise a 223 will give a sonic boom

I believe your comment is a little overstated, contrary to popular belief, a suppressed 223 is a lot more effective than a 22LR.  We used them in Nam to good effect.

[Swampman]

I've listened to the bullet cracks over my head.  They seemed loud enough to me.  Unless you're shooting sub-sonic I just don't see the point.
 

[45-70.gov]

http://irongoatguns.com/NFA.html


good site
i saw you 500snw.....bet you can hear the slugs hit


to bad you don't make handi barrels with integral suppressors
they would probly sell  here

[Andrew Quigley]

I'm a Son's of Guns fan! But I didn't see anything in the post that mentioned you were licensced to build them. I have read several post on other forums with people detailing their suppressor builds. Shoot, just search on youtube!    
 Hope ya do a booming business with the suppressors myself. Hope to own one or 20 in the future.

[Irongoat]

My wife an I are also fans of SOG, but strictly for its entertainment value.  The show too often strains credibility, and in the episode of the 137 unsuppressed .50, and the suppressed 118, throws it out the window.  If those numbers were supposed to be dB, one must question the accuracy and/or methods of their measurements.  But it is mostly fun and some neat stuff.

Back to the why, or more properly, "why not" of totally integrally suppressed 500 magnum.  The bore is simply too large to "hide" in a bull-barreled sized outer tube.  I certainly believe it could be done, but unless someone can prove differently, I also believe the outer tube would have to be at least an inch and a half for effective suppression. Limited to subsonic rounds, it might be possible to go a little smaller, but the bulk and weight would still be considerable.  Perforating the barrel to bleed off firing pressure would easy, attempting to turn down the barrel to remove weight would not be anything I would advise or attempt.

[45-70.gov]

i agree the 500  is too  much


is the 44 too much ??


would a 38/357 be better  ?

[Irongoat]

I just really think you will have to accept some bulk for effective suppression, either on the end of the barrel or around it.  Shorter the "real" barrel, slower the bullet. Why not cut a Handi barrel back to 16.5 inches.  Thread and port and counter-bore the last six inches or so, extend to outer tube almost to the handguard, and add 6 to 8 inches to have an overall barrel length of 22 to 24 inches.  Within those parameters, you can get good suppression, acceptable weight, and it will look like a seriously suppressed rifle and will behave as one.

That is my approach.