Still trying to track down an Accu Trigger Savage...

[woodseye]

Yes Chuck he's OK in my book, never a bad business dealing with him to this point and always hassel free. Your scope choice is superb and will make a nice combo I'm sure. Mine has a 3.5x10x44 sitting here patiently waiting for a home.

Yes Randy that is one of the first loads I will try out in my gun before any other changes or tests. I view it as sort of an OCW load that does well in nearly all Savage guns and will use during site in and break in. You know me........... I tend to lean towards the 250gr bullet for weight choice.

I made some inquires into the pillar bedding question and should have some concrete facts shortly on it.

     woods

[big6x6]

UC,
I DO have a .50 Black Diamond stainless with Leupold QR bases/rings that I would sell.  I hate to sell it because it shoots so good but I probably will.  I'm also going back and forth with the Omega .45.  It's a good shooter also but I like it TOO!  

Woods,
"I made some inquires into the pillar bedding question and should have some concrete facts shortly on it."

What about the piller bedding question?

[woodseye]

Well Randy and I were having a discussion about the pillar bedding in the Savages and I told him I had discovered that all my Savages (9 or so) tend to have a slight preload when you draw the front action screw down and when its loosened the barrel raises up a fraction of an inch. I bought one of the Stockade stocks for Savage and noticed after Kevin Rayford bedded it(hes the guy who makes the Sharp Shooter Supply stocks for them) it also had this slight perload for lack of a better word.

My smith who is a custom gunmaker and generally very wise on these things said that was wrong and had to flex the action and or stock when tightened and suggested we "skim bed" again for lack of a better term and level this condition out to a no stress level action bed.

It has worked well but Randy and several others had mentioned that pillars are purposely installed not quite level and this was SOP. I thought about it and still think it would be counter productive to have the gun under any sort of stress condition when tight so I posted over on AR where a lot of the real knowledgeable gunsmiths post and asked what the opinions were.

Of course this all is with a floated barrel and tang in the case of the Savage and the bedding is a very thin skim coat that levels out and increases the action mounting surface. Initial responses seem to support the decision of my smith in leveling the pillar supports and increasing the bedding surface with a thin skim coat of accra glass. Will wait for more of the guys in the know to weigh in on this subject I've never seen discussed on the forums before.

I'm getting some pretty unbelievable accuracy with the guns he's done so far and really can't argue with success at this point, but would like to hear the gunsmiths views on the technique none the less. Will talk to Fred at SSS later and get his views on this matter also.

      woods

[RandyWakeman]

My smith who is a custom gunmaker and generally very wise on these things said that was wrong and had to flex the action and or stock when tightened and suggested we "skim bed" again for lack of a better term and level this condition out to a no stress level action bed

Woodseye,

I'm not sure what the "skim bedding" actually is-- certainly you want a stress free action, but I'm not sure how his approach differs from locking the action to the pillars-- and removing the stock collapse potential around action screws?

Score High has a fairly lengthy PowerPoint slideshow here-- http://www.probed2000.com/download.htm

[woodseye]

Well if you could make and install pillars within .001 of each other it would not be a big deal.........however.........the Savage guns I own ALL fail to be perfectly level so preventing the stock from compressing becomes there only job and bedding requires a thin (read skim) coating of bedding material to be applied for the action to be level on the bedding surface and free of rock which will cause stress in the form of stock and or action flex when tightening.

The slight preload you talked about appears to be non-existant in the real world of pillar bedding and if the action has the slightest bit of rock or if the bedding pillars are the slightest bit out of level you can and probably will have stock or action flex of varying nature.

I posted up on AR and several very knowledgeable gunsmiths have posted now. Other than disagreement over whether the pillars should actually contact the action base they are all in agreement that what my gunsmith is doing to my Savage pillar bedded guns is probably responsible for some of the great accuracy they are producing. If you loosen the front screw and see any barrel rise (as long as the barrel is truly floated) you need to bed the action properly and remove this failure to sit perfectly level of the action.


Properly installed pillars are perfectly level and both contact the action at the same time when it is set on them. Heres an ongoing discussion about this subject..........

http://www.accuratereloading.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=551321&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=21&fpart=1#Post551481

       woods

[RandyWakeman]

Looks like they are having fun over there. :lol:


Looks like if you ask the question long enough, you'll get just about any answer you desire? :roll: One major muzzleloading manufacturer, many moons ago, informed me (on the subject of muzzleloader stocks) that "bedding was not required at all, based on their last 20 years of production and testing".

Okayyyyyy. :?

[woodseye]

Looks like if you ask the question long enough, you'll get just about any answer you desire?

Well I was glad it didn't fall into a four letter name calling melee but if you notice they all agree the pillars MUST be level or ground down some and the bedding surface level. This means every Savage pillar bed gun I own has some degree of problem with this.

"bedding was not required at all, based on their last 20 years of production and testing".

Hmmmmm..........20 years huh? I guess they probably have a pretty liberal accuracy policy as well perhaps? IMHO barrel quality and bedding are the first standards of accuracy with trigger pull, lug contact, stock design, and scope and mounts all important but not worth much if the basic bedding is lacking.

     woods

[RandyWakeman]

Whenever "accuracy" is mentioned, people seem to get a bit rattled. There is "accuracy," and there is "hunting accuracy"-- with later far more subjective.

All depends who you talk to. With two piece stocks, there just isn't a lot of bedding that can be done-- yet, I've found the Encore and now the Contender G2 to be two of the more accurate muzzleloaders I've tested.

Huntsman, Optima, and now Rossi / Traditions break open actions (as well as the Denali) are basically shotgun actions, and no great accuracy can really be expected. A look at the lockup and resultant rigidity compared to a Citori action, for example, makes it fairly clear. Some gunsmiths have referred to break-opens as the lowest form of rifle design.

The company I mentioned is Knight Rifles-- still, single recoil lug rifles, so not much std. bedding is easy, nor recommended. Though they never have bothered with dual recoil lug guns, they still have managed to win the NMRLA Manufacturer's Championship 4 years straight. You'll also find a few gunsmiths who feel bedding an action is effectively equal to pillar work, if not superior.

So, I don't know. I'm certainly interested in your before / after skim bedding comparisons with your Savage groups.

[woodseye]

You'll also find a few gunsmiths who feel bedding an action is effectively equal to pillar work, if not superior.

You'll find more than a few, the best of all worlds is having both.........pillars to prevent stock "crush" or compression from effecting the bedding platform over time and shooting...... and a smooth, level, action fitting bedding job to assure no action/stock flex or movement and constant equal recoil lug contact to not effect shot to shot consistancy. A Savage ML'er bedded in a laminate or a "reinforced" synthetic stock will allow you to explore the guns ultimate accuracy potential.

My Savage varmint gun shrank from .750-.850 groups with factory ammo to .500-.600 groups with good worked for the gun handloads. After a skim bed job those groups shrank to .250-.350 and needed only neck sizing and concentricity tweaking to reach .150-.250.


This isn't a big deal for big game hunting with 8" kill zones and shots that often aren't over 75yds but I like accuracy and tune each of my guns to achieve their best capable accuracy. Depending on how well the new ML'er fits the factory stock and sits on the pillars I would expect at least 1/4" group improvements or better from what I've hit in the past with Savages. Do I need to do it to kill deer? NO.......... but I need to do it for my own personal satisfaction that my gun is shooting its best. If a ML'er will shoot in 2 2 1/2" its fine for deer............you just probably won't post the targets up and proclaim it as a "tackdriver"  :wink:

   I'll keep ya posted when it arrives (couple more days) and I start shooting and tweaking.
 

              woods

[tuck789]

They finally got some accutriggers in here locally. They only have the stainless synthetic but at 450 I do not think that is too bad. They changed their story and said in two days they could have a black/synthetic.

[RandyWakeman]

They finally got some accutriggers in here locally. They only have the stainless synthetic but at 450 I do not think that is too bad.

That's a little better than "not bad"! Retail is $549, and that price is below Savage dealer pricing. Your dealer is being very, very reasonable.