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Offline irold

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Pa hog hunting ?
« on: April 08, 2012, 10:31:16 AM »
I just got an e-mail from Tioga Boar Ranch ( in Tioga county )asking me to write a letter to the Pa Game Commishion about up coming legislation.  It pertains to hunting wild boar and ferral hogs in Pennsylvania.  I didn't understand it completely....said something about not allowing any hunting of boar or ferral hogs in Pa.  After reading the file they had attached to the e-mail....almost appeared just the opposite , game commish wants to lift any protection on these critters.  Also make it illegal to have them penned of fenced in....maybe the ranch is looking to defend its "high fence" hog hunting.  Any one else hear of this or recieve an e-mail from Tioga Boar ranch  ?
 
regards, irold

Offline Ethan

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2012, 02:44:56 PM »
I just got the news letter too.
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Offline irold

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2012, 12:24:02 PM »
Evening Ethan ,
 
 
Did you get anything more than I from reading their e-mail  ?  I didn't realize boar were protected in Pa.  The last I read anything on it , apparently the boar were coming from the southwest corner of Pa , and expected to expand norhward.
 
regards , irold

Offline jays375

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2012, 02:31:16 PM »
They want them gone so there isn't a chance of them running loose.A guy I know was raising them and was told they have to go.

Offline melsdad

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2012, 05:23:29 PM »
I live in the southwest corner and have not heard of any problems with boars down here.
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Offline Ethan

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2012, 12:45:28 AM »
Evening Ethan ,
 
 
Did you get anything more than I from reading their e-mail  ?  I didn't realize boar were protected in Pa.  The last I read anything on it , apparently the boar were coming from the southwest corner of Pa , and expected to expand norhward.
 
regards , irold

Sorry for the long deley, I didn't know they were protected either, I just thought it was shoot them on sight. Sure beats the heck out of me.
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Offline Deerhunter#1

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2012, 11:58:26 PM »
They are overtaking Bedford county as I here. Years back something happened in transport of them to the tioga farm and they got loose from what I here. If correct last years PA hunting guide was saying get rid of them. I have leased land in tioga and the owner has seen them but could not get a shot.

Offline Bigeasy

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2012, 02:04:14 AM »
PA has quite a few hog farms, at least in my area.  If the state is afraid of hogs escaping from fenced in hunting areas like Tioga impacting local game and hunting land, closing hunting preserves that have hogs is not going to do the trick.  I am sure a lot more hogs escape from local farms, and are just as capable of doing damage as hogs from fenced hunting operations.
 
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Offline Flash

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2012, 12:50:31 AM »
PA has quite a few hog farms, at least in my area.  If the state is afraid of hogs escaping from fenced in hunting areas like Tioga impacting local game and hunting land, closing hunting preserves that have hogs is not going to do the trick.  I am sure a lot more hogs escape from local farms, and are just as capable of doing damage as hogs from fenced hunting operations.
 
Larry

I believe the wild hog is much more nomadic then the domestic hog and their diet is riots and tubers,  as opposed  to grain fed hogs. I don't see the Tioga preserve importing domestic pigs for boar hunts. The wild boar is much more destructive then the domestic pig.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2012, 01:00:30 AM »
  The hog situation is a real problem..just ask farmers, land owners and golf courses in places like Texas, Georgia etc.  A small herd of hogs can destroy 20 acres of corn in one night.  NY State has had no problem with hogs until recently, but they are now showing up..and the DEC wants them eradicated before they get started.
  Domestic hogs make no difference..they can be completely feral in a couple generations.
  THe commonwealth wants open season to save other game animals and protect farmers..the hog ranch wants a closed season so they can have the only place to legally hunt a hog..at least for a few more years..  My $ .02
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Offline Flash

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2012, 02:40:36 PM »
[quote author=ironglow link=topic=255433.msg1099521072#msg1099521072 date=13370
  Domestic hogs make no difference..they can be completely feral in a coule generations.
  THe commonwealth wants open season to save other game animals and protect farmers..the hog ranch wants a closed season so they can have the only place to legally hunt a hog..at least for a few more years..  My $ .02
[/quote]

Domesticated don't roam aka not nomadic. Their domesticated traits allowed farmers to keep them content penned until slaughter.. How are they going to become feral if they live in pens all their lives? The cow is a good example. How many feral cows have you seen lately.......leaving pies everywhere?
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Offline Bigeasy

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2012, 11:25:48 AM »
[quote author=ironglow link=topic=255433.msg1099521072#msg1099521072 date=13370
  Domestic hogs make no difference..they can be completely feral in a coule generations.
  THe commonwealth wants open season to save other game animals and protect farmers..the hog ranch wants a closed season so they can have the only place to legally hunt a hog..at least for a few more years..  My $ .02

Domesticated don't roam aka not nomadic. Their domesticated traits allowed farmers to keep them content penned until slaughter.. How are they going to become feral if they live in pens all their lives? The cow is a good example. How many feral cows have you seen lately.......leaving pies everywhere?

 
 
Tell that to the farmers in states like FL, TX., and CA. who have been about driven out of business by domestic pigs that have gotten loose and become feral.  There are very few places in this country where you can hunt imported, full blooded European wild boar.  The vast majority of boar hunting is simply domestic hogs that have reverted back to feral, something they do very quickly.
 
Larry
Personal opinion is a good thing, and everyone is entitled to one.  The hard part is separating informed opinion from someone who is just blowing hot air....

Offline ironglow

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2012, 12:44:21 AM »
[quote author=ironglow link=topic=255433.msg1099521072#msg1099521072 date=13370
  Domestic hogs make no difference..they can be completely feral in a coule generations.
  THe commonwealth wants open season to save other game animals and protect farmers..the hog ranch wants a closed season so they can have the only place to legally hunt a hog..at least for a few more years..  My $ .02

Domesticated don't roam aka not nomadic. Their domesticated traits allowed farmers to keep them content penned until slaughter.. How are they going to become feral if they live in pens all their lives? The cow is a good example. How many feral cows have you seen lately.......leaving pies everywhere?
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
 
   Flash;
   I don't know where you got that information, but pigs are one of the quickest animals to "go feral" and become dangerous.
       http://www.sentinelsource.com/features/environment/feral-pigs-a-problem-for-landowners-wild-species/article_f8c075b1-b8a8-5364-a1a0-0f840421779d.html

   Here's another report;  http://blog.mlive.com/flintjournal/outdoors/2007/11/domestic_pigs_quickly_revert_t.html
 
   I quote it... from the Dept of natural resources;
"Any pig that gets out can revert back in a matter of months to a state where it can exist in the wild," said Brown. "It will get hairy, grow tusks and get aggressive. They're so good at adapting, and with their scavenging nature, they can get by pretty much anywhere."
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Flash

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2012, 09:47:49 AM »
Ironglow, i read the first article about feral hogs not originating here and are off spring of hogs imported in the 1500s. In 500 years, a parakeet can become feral. The farmers i know would much rather raise hogs than cattle, due to having to chase the cows after they get out.
Im not too sure how the subject of Pennsylvania feral hogs went to speaking to farmers in Texas and California but southern states can thank Mexico for feral hogs, where according to the article, the Spanish imported the hog in the 1500's. History will tell us that the Spanish occupied Mexico in the 1500's.
Regarding the Department of Natural Resources article, its worthless here in Pennsylvania. The Game Commission here has been refusing to acknowledge the coyote population we have here in many counties. They are going to lie through their teeth about one species and tell the truth about another?  Yeah right. Warner Bros. released all the hogs after filming "Porky". That's as believable as domestic pigs becoming feral hogs, especially in the 30 some years hunting preserves have been popular.

How many domestic pigs have you seen with tusks? Do fences keep tusks from growing? You're saying six months after a pig is loose, it will pack on 800 lbs and grow tusks?.
Maybe livestock fencing should be called " Weight managing tusk preventers".
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Offline manofthe45

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2012, 09:04:39 AM »
I have done a high fence pig hunt at the wilderness with a buddy.  Neither of us concidered at a "hunt" per se, but a shoot.  While it wasn't the same experience of getting that hard earned buck or calling it that a callshy coyote, but fun non the less.  will I ever do it again?  Probably not, but see no reason to ban these preserves.  check out the sites for differant preserves.  Ignore the pictures of guys shellingout thousands for a monster buck, but the kids getting that first animal.  Whether a small pig or some varient of a ram their smiles are priceless.
My opinion if you cant see yourself doing it just ignore them.  We very well may end up with a hog population or illegal transfer and release by hunters looking for a new hunting season, but IMO it will come from them expanding their range from lower states, not a minasule number that might escape and not return to their proven food source.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2012, 02:13:45 AM »
Ironglow, i read the first article about feral hogs not originating here and are off spring of hogs imported in the 1500s. In 500 years, a parakeet can become feral. The farmers i know would much rather raise hogs than cattle, due to having to chase the cows after they get out.
Im not too sure how the subject of Pennsylvania feral hogs went to speaking to farmers in Texas and California but southern states can thank Mexico for feral hogs, where according to the article, the Spanish imported the hog in the 1500's. History will tell us that the Spanish occupied Mexico in the 1500's.
Regarding the Department of Natural Resources article, its worthless here in Pennsylvania. The Game Commission here has been refusing to acknowledge the coyote population we have here in many counties. They are going to lie through their teeth about one species and tell the truth about another?  Yeah right. Warner Bros. released all the hogs after filming "Porky". That's as believable as domestic pigs becoming feral hogs, especially in the 30 some years hunting preserves have been popular.

How many domestic pigs have you seen with tusks? Do fences keep tusks from growing? You're saying six months after a pig is loose, it will pack on 800 lbs and grow tusks?.
Maybe livestock fencing should be called " Weight managing tusk preventers".
)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
  First off..it's not the fence that keeps the tusks from growing..it's the farmer/producer who does that.  I can recall helping my Dad  break off what farmers call "wolf teeth"..little black rudimentaries which would develop into tusks but are broken off in babies. Tusks are not necessary nor desireable in domestic hogs..  a few links;
    http://www.wesjones.com/hogswild.htm
 
   http://www.redorbit.com/news/general/1529032/pigs_go_wild_in_new_jersey/
 
    I can't imagine how much more you need, but here's some:
 
  http://nyaltnews.com/2012/03/feral-pigs-devastating-ny-farming-communities/12114/
 
  The feral/domestic hog cross can be worst of all...
   
  Perhaps you have never heard the old saying; " He went to s_ _ t and the hogs got him" !  That old saying has genuine roots, anyone who has ever raised hogs, knows he would never want o be down and helpless among a herd of domestic swine !
 
    Check this out; murderer feeds victims to hogs:
       http://suite101.com/article/robert-pickton-a118137
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Flash

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2012, 11:32:42 AM »
 ironglow, In the first paragraph if the first article you posted a link to, the phrase " They are believed to be descendants" is all i needed to see. Many people believe many different things but belief doesn't create fact, which is why the reporter used that phrase in the article.

Please tell me you don't live your life based on"old sayings". ::)
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2012, 09:52:00 AM »
  Nope I don't live on "old sayings" but I do put some stock in what the various DEC units, Cornell U and what my veterinary friend tell me.
  How many times have you seen the term "feral" in serious articles ?  Whenever an animal specialist says feral hog he/she means a former domestic hog.  Otherwise he/she would simply refer to the animal as a "wild" hog..
    Of course, ALL hogs were at one time wild..just as corn, tomatoes and rutabaga were all weeds at one time or another.
 Your debate seems to hinge upon how long the reversion back to wild takes place..
 
     Here is a statement by the State of NY  Department of environmental Conservation which explains that the dangerous and destructive  swine can be made up of imported wild stock, domestic stock gone wild or a combination.
   http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/70843.html
 
  A statement from Cornell U.;
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
  "  Press Connects article 4/18/2011
   New York wildlife officials are scrambling to confront an invasion before it becomes an environmental disaster in the Southern Tier and elsewhere.

Feral hogs, abundant for years in many Southern states, are slowly creeping into New York, and they are not a welcome addition.

A new report from the U.S. Department of Agriculture indicates the wild pigs are breeding in three New York counties -- Tioga, Cortland and Onondaga.

"In the absence of aggressive professional management, these populations will likely continue their expansion and become entrenched in New York state -- with potentially devastating consequences to natural resources, agriculture and human health and safety," the report concluded.

An aggressive invader

Feral hogs are domestic hogs gone wild. *

Some of the wild pigs turning up in New York have migrated from the South, and others are European or Russian boars that escaped from shooting preserves or breeding facilities, said Paul Curtis, a Cornell University professor and Cooperative Extension wildlife specialist.

The hogs, which started appearing in New York about five years ago, are prolific breeders with very few natural enemies, and they can quickly overwhelm local ecosystems, Curtis said.

"If hogs are left unchecked, they can cause tremendous damage to agricultural crops," he said. "They can also cause environmental damage. Wildlife can be impacted by hogs. According to a recent report, feral hogs cause damage nationwide of $2 billion or more (annually). We don't need that problem in New York right now."
 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx          * color changed to emphasize

 
   Unless you know more than they (backed by Cornell U.) do..you're just spitting into the wind.. ;)
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Offline Flash

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2012, 10:17:55 PM »
Don't you think its odd that the wild/feral hog population is in only three counties? Of course Tioga  is the suspect county for escaping wild hogs but to accuse the Hog Preserve would open a liability suit so every journalist will state where it's POSSIBLE that the hogs  came from but not actually where they did.
LaSale  brought them from France but you already knew that. Looks like you're down wind.
 ;D
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2012, 12:16:46 AM »
  OK Flash;
  Have it your way !
   ...But I will still take the scientific answers provided by the various DECs and veterinary colleges and universities..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline geartow

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2012, 12:34:45 AM »
The problem with hunting NY swine is gaining land owner permission . They do not want you to hunt them they are there but not in the numbers the DEC would make you believe . I have seen only one in 3 years that I have been actively seeking them. They are in an area that ranges from open field to hard wood forest . The land owners here do not currently think they are a problem. I want to move back to Pa . Still own land in Mercer and Venango counties .
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Offline Flash

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2012, 04:39:16 AM »
One in three years? Excuse me while i stop laughing. Certainly there must be thousands tearing up the entire state.. I can just see them marching down Wall Street.
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Offline ironglow

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2012, 08:45:34 AM »
The problem with hunting NY swine is gaining land owner permission . They do not want you to hunt them they are there but not in the numbers the DEC would make you believe . I have seen only one in 3 years that I have been actively seeking them. They are in an area that ranges from open field to hard wood forest . The land owners here do not currently think they are a problem. I want to move back to Pa . Still own land in Mercer and Venango counties .
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      It looks like if certain commercial interests have their way, hunting them in PA may not be allowed for some time.  Obviously, the guys with the hog hunting (shooting) business would come upon hard times if the season were opened.  There are some hogs showing up in central NY, not so many here in the western region of the southern tier.  Many folks, not realizing the intelligence and fecundity of swine think "a few here and a few there" can't hurt anything.  Ignorance can be bliss...but it isn't wisdom.. ;)
  Several were killed last year in Allegany State Park..  That's why the DEC is on an all state alert..kill on sight (within legal restrictions of course)..even if the hog looks like a domestic hog..because it's offspring won't.
  I find your area land owner's attitudes to be strange..compared with land owners in this area.  Around here, if you have permission to hunt, they assume you are hunting legal game..and don't care if it's coon or coyotes.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline av-doctor

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2012, 03:31:45 AM »
i believe some here have no experience with hogs,
    you give hogs a little room they get aggressive real quick,you turn one lose in a fenced woodlot within a couple of weeks they will aggressively run anything off that gets near them,
   I'm not talking wild boar i mean the same cute little pigs your bacon comes from.
    you need to do some more research on hogs! if you do you'll find the average sow to be about 150lb in the wild and boars go about 180lb,
    these 800lb monsters you see on TV are usually found to be farm raised the released.
    just look at reproductive rates on wild hogs 8-12 piglets per litter 2-3 litters per year,sows can start reproducing at 6mths. the math alone will show how fast it can be a problem!

Offline ironglow

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2012, 02:43:11 AM »
i believe some here have no experience with hogs,
    you give hogs a little room they get aggressive real quick,you turn one lose in a fenced woodlot within a couple of weeks they will aggressively run anything off that gets near them,
   I'm not talking wild boar i mean the same cute little pigs your bacon comes from.
    you need to do some more research on hogs! if you do you'll find the average sow to be about 150lb in the wild and boars go about 180lb,
    these 800lb monsters you see on TV are usually found to be farm raised the released.
    just look at reproductive rates on wild hogs 8-12 piglets per litter 2-3 litters per year,sows can start reproducing at 6mths. the math alone will show how fast it can be a problem!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
  Right on Doc;
  I can recall being a GI in Louisianna in the 1950s.  We had to beware of those razorbacks..from what I understood then..they were descended from domestic hogs which had gone feral.  Believe me, they have plenty of tusk, which are capable of great damage.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Bingo

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2012, 10:59:38 AM »
   Hey! The Game Commission didn't stock the hybred coyote or a dew mountian lions, or for that matter they didn't stock any fishers ether. So I guess they didn't stock these pigs ether! >:(  It was someone else!!! Or, They don't exist.

Offline av-doctor

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2012, 03:05:16 AM »
Hey! The Game Commission didn't stock the hybrid coyote or a dew mountain lions, or for that matter they didn't stock any fishers ether. So I guess they didn't stock these pigs ether! :( "  It was someone else!!! Or, They don't exist.
 
 HAHA them damned European settlers.

Offline Bingo

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2012, 12:58:29 PM »
   The game commision did stock hybred coyote and did admitt to it. they are cross bred with wolf. My brother shot one 3 years ago that weighed in at 65-70 pounds

Offline ironglow

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2012, 02:48:35 AM »
  The wolf/coyote hybrids make up the northeastern coyote population.  I don't think they were stocked, but a natural outcome of human population growth further west.. pushing coyotes into Canada to mate with Canadian wolves.  It would seem they were a natural occurence, since the NY and PA game commissions both recently conducted a study to find why the size difference between easter and western coyotes.  Some used to call them "coy-dogs", thinking there was a dog cross involved, but DNA proved the original cross.
  It seems as if the game commissions actually bred and stocked them, they would know their root breeding.
 
  BTW: I'm not sure "hybrid" is the proper term, since they will breed true..(don't have to go back to the original cross to make a duplicate).
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Flash

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Re: Pa hog hunting ?
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2012, 11:17:07 PM »
i believe some here have no experience with hogs,
    you give hogs a little room they get aggressive real quick,you turn one lose in a fenced woodlot within a couple of weeks they will aggressively run anything off that gets near them,
   I'm not talking wild boar i mean the same cute little pigs your bacon comes from.
    you need to do some more research on hogs! if you do you'll find the average sow to be about 150lb in the wild and boars go about 180lb,
    these 800lb monsters you see on TV are usually found to be farm raised the released.
    just look at reproductive rates on wild hogs 8-12 piglets per litter 2-3 litters per year,sows can start reproducing at 6mths. the math alone will show how fast it can be a problem!



Yes, their numbers should be in the tens of thousands with the way they multiply. In ten years, a male and female, if left in the wild,  will multiply into over 100,000 animals. They should out number house flies if all the experts here were correct. You're right about the inexperience around hog farms
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